Posted by rpcman on February 25, 1999 at 17:03:16:
In Reply to: Mormons for evolution posted by Walker on February 25, 1999 at 15:58:58:
: I read the link to the essay "Mormons for Evolution" in the "What's new" section. I assume rpcman wrote it. I make a few comments.
Just a note that I wrote the aboved linked page but not the link on the page which points to another page called "Mormons for Evolution".
: > In any event, one thing is sure; no matter what one claims doctrine is, they will quickly change that view when something they don't agree with happens to fall into the previously defined parameters.
: Isn't this what science does too?
Yes, but science doesn't claim to be the Truth of an unchanging God.
: I'd say it's a good thing.
Me too. But the people that frequently write to me saying that the doctrine doesn't change don't.
: Claiming immutable doctrine: that's the bad thing.
Amen.
: I guess at this point you would quote some Mormon who said, "God's laws are eternal" therefore Mormons are not at liberty to change what they believe. Well, they had better find a way to change their thinking. Let's encourage them to – even while they're stubbornly clinging to some of the myth.
I try to. See for instance this page, this page, and this one.
: I took biology 100 in about 1985. At that time the four professors who taught it were united in saying that evolution is a fact; humans evolved from apes (ape like creatures). President McKay's letters on the subject where displayed on the overhead. Something like, "The church has no official position…" I can't say evolution was glossed over. But I could tell the professors where taking extra care to teach it and also do testimony damage control.
I took it a little later and don't remember hearing any of what you describe. I got a C+ though so maybe I wasn't listening very well. ;)
: What did the pope say?
See this page.
: Mormons might listen and learn. Also, with regard to Adam, if we Mormons concede that he was just a figurative representation of something and not a real person, it would be interesting to research how much that unravels our entire belief system.
This would be wonderful, but I seriously doubt that it will happen in my lifetime. The church reiterated its literal view of the Old Testament just about a year ago in the Ensign.
: But I haven't pinned down exactly what it is. Has anybody?
A metaphor on life's birth, death, and continual rebirth for starters.
: I think the points you are making are:
: 1. Evolution and Genesis (and all Mormon doctrine which depends on Genesis) are mutually exclusive.
: 2. If Genesis is false (or even figurative), so is Mormonism since it depends on Genesis.
: 3. If you are Mormon and believe evolution, you don't know your own religion.
Hopefully, I'm making the point that Mormons should seek after truth wherever it can be found and discard falsehood wherever it can be found (including the scriptures and words of superstitious General Authorities who haven't looked at the evidence but instead cling to faith and tradition).
: I liked the essay because it pointed out the diversity of opinion that exists among church leaders. I didn't like that it seems to say that since "evolution is false" is the dominant Mormon opinion, "evolution is false" is Mormon doctrine. I like to think this doctrine is not well defined because it is in transition.
: On first reading it seemed like you were trying to force Mormons into a very uncomfortable position: If you are a Mormon you are compelled to believe idiotic doctrines with regard to natural history.
: I wish there were a way to teach evolution to Mormons without making them feel like idiots (by forcing them to acknowledge their idols are false). But I guess that's just a dumb fantasy of mine. But maybe there is no way. The truth hurts.
I hope the truth hurting part is accomplished via the essay. Once one realizes that the truth hurts they can begin to throw out the untruth, evaluate their methodology, and start a new and improved philosophy with a fairly clean slate.
I'm going to link that page to here so that folks can get a clearer picture of what I'm trying to achieve with the page. Calling people stupid does no good but hopefully the things I've suggested herein will cause some changes for the better.
: After you peel away all the interdependent layers of baloney from Mormonism, what's left?
I'm not sure if there is anything that is entirely unique to Mormonism, but there are some good things such as the quotes on this page. If only they were routinely followed!
: I like the things on this site that you "still like about Mormonism". I hope to see more of that. It's really great coming from this site. In fact it's the only site dealing with Mormonism I know of that retains that amount of objectivity.
Thanks. If you (and anyone else) would like to make a list of things you still like about Mormonism I'll gladly put them on the site or at least archive them in the Bulletin Board archives.