Posted by Pat on October 24, 1999 at 01:04:37:
In Reply to: Revival of Ionian science posted by Tom on October 23, 1999 at 23:22:56:
Tom:
I was probably not specific enough. It's not that Sagan is denying that the Greeks had science figured out. It's his suggestion that the medievals didn't understand these basic principles.
Pat:
"Medieval" generally refers to the dark ages between the end of the Western Roman Empire, and the Renaissance. Neither Kepler nor Galileo is properly of medieval times. And yes, the West in those years lost most of the learning of the Greeks. Except for a few Irish monks, learning was almost extinguished. When Charlemagne began to recover learning, he had to use the Irish, Byzantines, and even Arabs. It wasn't just the Greek learning; Roman engineering practices were lost and forgotten.
If it was not for the Arabs much would have been lost forever.
Of course, my friend tells me that historians now doubt that the Renaissance existed, except as a movement in a very limited circle of courtiers. The rise of technology and a literate merchant class may have been much more important. Folks like Leewenhoek, a fabric seller, with no college degree at all, for example.
Tom:
I don't know your friend in the history of
science. Is his area medieval science? Three three scholars I mentioned are three of the most recongnized historians in medieval and 17th-century science. I've given you specific references.
Pat:
He seems to know a great deal about Christian Europe in the late middle ages.
Tom:
Telling me that you have an acquaintance that knows better is not any kind of an argument. It's one of those "my-dad-can-beat-up-your-dad" boasts.
Pat:
It's true. But you can take it or leave it.