|Subject:||Worst enemies of the church????|
|Date:||Mar 28 11:07|
|Did any of you ever hear during your time in the morg that the worst
enemies of the church were always former members?
Do you think it's true. I know they always used this as a scare tactic for keeping you in. But as pissed off as they make people upon leaving, I kind of think I agree?
|Subject:||I think the worst enemies are those who know too much and care . .|
|Date:||Mar 28 11:13|
|Those who know what being a member is like (you don't have to
actually be one to understand what the church does to ones head), those who know the
doctrines well and those who care what the church is doing and not doing are the churches
They can make the most cogent arguments against the church and those arguements are the hardest for the church to defend against.
Sometimes those 'enemies' were former members, but sometimes not. I think education and concern are the most important factors.
|Subject:||Another thought about authority . .|
|Date:||Mar 28 11:21|
|It's human nature to give weight to the opinion of one who we believe to have authority to speak about a subject. The more exclusive a persons experience in the church, the more authority people tend to give to that person. Therefore, when someone leaves who has had an exclusive relationship inside the church, we tend to give them authority. If that same person leaves and shares critical insight it is very damaging to the church. They fear that kind of power to create damage the most. The church usually has to discredit the one who left because of their unique ability to hurt the church.|
|Date:||Mar 28 12:39|
|It's like the whole "Hell hath no fury like a woman
I loved the church. I loved the Plan of Salvation. I loved Jesus. I LOVED IT. I WAS IN LOVE with my Lord and Savior and His Kingdom of Earth. I felt safe, and cared for. Then bam. What? Poly-what? Bam. DNA-what? BAM. Blood Atone-what? BAM!! BY said what? BAM BAM!!! Blacks are what?!?!?!? Mithra-who? Paul said what? Bible Contra-WHAT? Book of Abra-what??? BAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAM!!!!! What?! What?1 WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?!?!? NO! No. No....shit, I'm fucked...FUCK! Fuck. I spent how much time in this thing? I told who what? I converted how many?! I married her because of what?!? Bam. I pissed. Bam. I hurt. BAM. Why did they lie?! BAM BAM. Why didn't my parents see this?!? BAMBAMBAMBAM!!!! Why did I have to waste twenty years on this FUCKING FRAAAAUUUUUUDD!!!!
You better believe the worst enemies of the church are ex-church members. Why? Because the church knows. It knows. It knows and it takes. It knows and it takes and it perpetuates the myth. It has to be stopped. There has to be someone who will stand up and say, "STOP!" "Stop this lying, this taking, this deceit! STOP!" If we don't do it, no one will, and the circle of lies continues unabated. Then, truly, we are guilty of the sin of omission against our fellow man.
|Subject:||LOL! Excellent summary of the experience of going from devout TBM|
|Date:||Mar 29 02:17|
|to confident exmo. Your post is an excellent work of modern prose poetry. It says it all concisely and powerfully. I could see my own experience in your words.|
|Subject:||Re: "I get a dark feeling reading that material"|
|Date:||Mar 28 11:20|
|And the most powerful weapon is info. and the best delivery system
for that weapon, the net. The Corporation of the President is doing a song and dance now
to keep the faithful from the evil internet. It will be a topic somewhere at the next
shareholders semi-annual meeting. (conference for TMB speak)
|Subject:||I object to the term "enemy".|
|Date:||Mar 28 11:21|
|The mo church likes everything in black and white. If you know about
the church you are either Mormon, a "saint", or an "anti-mormon" and
an enemy of the church. The rest of the world are nons, meant to be proselytized. Most of
the rest of the world doesn't care one way or another. They just think the Mos are weird,
which is true. The morg is afraid of the truth and when it is published or spoken of, the
messenger becomes the enemy.
I had this discussion with my TBM sister a couple of days ago. Of course, to her, I am an anti. She doesn't even want her sons to come visit me for fear of them being influenced.
|Date:||Mar 28 11:22|
|I've heard it said that people will work much harder out of love
than they ever would for money.
When LDS doctrine alienates family members then those who have been harmed have a very intense motivation to see that the Morg doesn't get away with the say cult-like behavior involving other poor souls.
It seems like Church headquarters still hopes that the problems will just go away. They take some small steps such as the order to not study the gospel with friends outside of church. To me that sounds like the Boyd K. Packer approach to the problem.
That may stem the amount of discussion, but it does not completely end it. And the underlying spiritual abuse goes on to ruin more lives. So the number of disaffected persons continues to grow. Many can be discredited, but not all.
It does seem, however, that www.exmormon.org and other Internet resources are the biggest threat to the growth of Mormonism. How does the "one true Church" stop the flow of true information? They seem to want to desparately, but can they?
|Subject:||Re: Worst enemies of the church????|
|Date:||Mar 28 11:47|
|I remember opening a copy of TIME magazine a few years ago and
seeing an article by
Boyd K. that targeted gays (among others, like women asking questions they shouldn't,
and other inquiring minds) as the real enemies of the church. Good old Boyd KKK.
Now there's a real example of Christ-like living for ya!
|Subject:||Enemies are sometimes in the eye of the beholder...|
|Date:||Mar 28 11:52|
|IMO, active members often CREATE "enemies" out of
ex-members by ostracizing them, belittling them, threatening them with family guilt/job
security. I bet most ex-members would be happy to simply become ex-members, get about with
things, and not look back, but simply go forward from there.
It doesn't work that way though. The church sends out love bombers, guilt grenadres, and "special" visitors. The church makes the environment between active and ex-mormon hostile and heated, it creates an "in your face" approach to things- "If you are not with us, then you are AGAINST us!"
I see where the LDS church's members would overwhelmingly consider ex-members as "Enemies" instead of fellow-human beings who happened to opt differently.
It's a cult thing- the collective becomes threatened when one within it gets out.
Remember the episode of Star Trek The Next Gen where Capt. Pickard was instructed to plant a virus inside the brain of an escaped borg, then he was to be replanted into the collective?
(Capt. Pcikard did not plant the virus, BTW, for any who may have missed that show.)
The church cannot afford to lose one of its own to the outside world- the outside world is dirty, dangerous, and infective. The outside world is satan, the warm cozy collective is safe.
Ex-mormons are only enemies because the cult of LDSism NEEDS enemies, like every good cult needs.
|Subject:||Re: Enemies in the eye of the beholder... Black & White thinking|
|Date:||Mar 28 14:28|
|I started keeping a list of quotes when I strated my path away from
the church (and back to myself). At one point, I felt I was too lop sided in reading the
"anti-" material so I purposely went looking for a "Pro-" site to read
on. The following is what I copied from that site into my quotes:
"The Prophet Joseph Smith made the following statement to a man who wondered why those who had left the Church fought so fiercely against it: "Before you joined this Church you stood on neutral ground. When the gospel was preached good and evil were set before you. You could choose either or neither. There were two opposite masters inviting you to serve them. When you joined this Church you enlisted to serve God. When you did that you left the neutral ground, and you never can get back on to it. Should you forsake the Master you enlisted to serve, it will be by the instigations of the evil one, and you will follow his dictation and be his servant." (in "Recollections of the Prophet Joseph Smith, " Juvenile Instructor, 15 Aug. 1892, 492
I would agree that many former members would like to get on with their lives but are invaded by those "saving them from the evil one." I also think that former member usually go through some sort of process that antishock8 deliniated so well in his post "HELL YEAH!!!" Good Job antishock8! We have had to research and gut through some of the tremendous B.S. that the church has incorporated within it to keep members controlled and within their grasp. Once we get to this point, we not only have a good deal of damning information from church approved sources (not yet hidden from view) but we have had to make the emotional commitment to be true to what we have discovered and not sweep into the corners of our minds like we did when we were active. Do any of us think that joining the LDS church is a good idea even under some circumstances? Well, only if we could rationalized the benefits to someone being lied to and dismembering their ability to think for themselves.
|Subject:||Re: Worst enemies of the church????|
|Date:||Mar 28 12:52|
|Worst ememy of the church can be summed up in one word "TRUTH"|
|Subject:||The worse enemy of the church is...|
|Date:||Mar 28 14:17|
|...(I was going to say "the truth", but Sawthelight beat
me to it)...
...but the actual agents that are the worse enemies of the church are those exmormons who go on with their lives happily ever after. It is these people that the leaders of the church attack most fiercely, telling the rank and file that we left the church for trivial reasons (the Big Three: 1) to sin, 2) Bro. Doe offended us, 3) it was too hard for us), and they tell each other that exmormons can't leave them alone (might be true in some cases, but most exmormons I know have nothing to do with that church anymore).
The attacks from other christians, or from rabid anti-mormons like Ed Decker are mostly ignored. They're just a minor nuisance.
It's those who were TBMs, but got to thinking and then left, and in spite of all the awful things that are supposed to happen to apostates, they just go and have a good life for the most part. There's little else more damaging to the church than that. :-)
|Subject:||I totally agree.|
|Date:||Mar 28 14:46|
|Subject:||Of course we are their worst enemies|
|Date:||Mar 28 15:49|
|We know whats going on in the workings of the church that an out sider does not know. It is like that in any organization. We know their secrets !|
|Subject:||just like in the early days of the church..|
|Date:||Mar 28 16:28|
|Exactly...Those that are members and leave are threats because they
know the truth and can make it known to others. The more I read about the early apostates,
the more I realize whey the church is so against them. What is one of the main factors
that led to Joseph Smith's death? The publishing of the Nauvoo Expositor revealing the
"spiritual wife system" (polygamy) and part of Joseph's secret "take over
the world" plan. William Law knew these things because he was a member. I'm proud of
people like him that are willing to stand for truth and are willing to bear whatever may
come as a result.
Those that have always been TBM have no idea how hard it is to go against the grain and eventually leave the church...having the foundation of what you've always believed pulled out from under you, having to deal with cognitive dissonance that gets so strong that you have to make a decision before you go insane, and having to climb out of it all thinking that you are alone.(thank goodness for RFM) We should all be proud of what we've been through. I'm sure many TBM's just think we're lazy, big sinners, or offended but the truth is..Our own personal integrity will not allow us to stay in something we know is fraud..Because of this we have more challenges to deal with, but we have the satisfaction of being true to ourselves. Most TBMs don't have the strength to question or leave..they'll remain in the Morg because they know of no other way, while us "apostates" forge a new path in life. They don't understand our reasons but I think they envy us.
|Subject:||The Youth is the strenght of the Church....|
|Date:||Mar 28 19:12|
|When they grow up & out of their naivete and mature, they recognize a fairy tale when they see one.|
|Subject:||Re: Worst enemies of the church????|
|Date:||Mar 28 19:29|
|The biggest enemies of the church - the prophets standing at the pulpit with dribble running down their cheeks!!!|
|Subject:||worst enemies list:|
|Date:||Mar 29 00:53|
|The church's most dangerous enemies:
1) Their own history and doctrine
2) truth as revealed (he he he) by science and careful scholarship in every discipline (linguistics, archaeology, DNA research, etc . . .)
3) people who ask too many questions
4) people who think and will SAY what they think.
5) The internet
(not necessarily in that order)
|Subject:||The worst enemies of any organization are...|
|Date:||Mar 29 08:17|
|those who know all about it--the secrets, the inside workings, the
tactics for recruiting membership, the things the organization wants to hide.
Same is true in mormonism.
|Subject:||Nazis, the mafia, Nixon, & the mormons keep enemy lists nt|
|Date:||Mar 29 08:43|
|Subject:||Internet, Internet, Internet and it's huge army of information! imho anyways. NT|
|Date:||Mar 29 09:21|
|Subject:||I know this is prideful .... but people like me are their worst enemies.|
|Date:||Mar 29 20:42|
|Why? Because I'd sincerely like to really believe in the Church and I probably will always feel this way. Duh!! The Mormons promise worlds without number for the faithful men. But I won't be able to ever believe in it again because I have no desire to believe anything which simply isn't true. Its just so obvious.|
|Subject:||From what I've seen around here [on exmoron.org bb], the most pious, righteous members themselves, are the church's worst enemies. nt|
|Date:||Mar 29 21:09|