|Subject:||Been in church 30 years and I no longer believe|
|Date:||Aug 23 19:10|
|I have been member of the mormon church all of my life. I now have
finally come to the realization that I am tired of letting other people run my life. I
have a family who loves the church, but I cannot stand church anylonger. I served a
mission, got married in the temple, and raised a great family, but I no longer want the
church in my life. I have always been faithfull and done what I was told to do, but all of
a sudden my eyes have opened and I see the church with open eyes now. I regret the time I
wasted on my mission getting spit on and cursed at. Everybody I babtized is now inactive.
I am tired of paying 10% of my hard earned money to a growing Salt Lake.
The few people in the church I consider freinds, that I have told my true opinions to, think I am possesed by the devil. No more dinner invitations, just wispering in the halls. Even my kids are feeling the effect since good mormons do not want their kids associating with a non-believer. I now see these people as parasites who cast aside somebody who is not towing the line.
What do I do? My family still loves the church, and I will support them in this, but my wife keeps hinting I am going to go to hell and she will not be with me. Sometimes I just want to stand in front of the a church building and give the finger to everybody who enters.
Not much I can do, I am locked into this life and will play along to keep everybody happy
|Subject:||Welcome to the board. You are not alone. (n/t)|
|Date:||Aug 23 19:13|
|Subject:||That's why this place is here|
|Date:||Aug 23 19:29|
|Given your situation, come here to vent. Research. Seek advice.
Talk. Whatever you need.
Welcome to the board, man!
|Subject:||You'll soon find you're not alone.|
|Date:||Aug 23 19:34|
|Talk to people here, and read the biography and exit stories.
If your wife cannot accept you as an unbeliever, then as harsh as this sounds, you'd be better off with someone else. Someone who will accept you for you - not what you believe or don't believe. But maybe she's still in shock and with time may change how she feels, maybe even go down your pathway. If it's possible for you after 30 years, then why not her too eventually? So take your time and assess things carefully. The journey of a million miles begins with the first step. I remember precisely too when I no longer wanted to be a Mormon, and it took me about 15 years to get rid of all the baggage, entirely. So walk easy and diligently brother, and use your head more than your "heart". That's my experience anyway.
|Subject:||I agree with Ray A|
|Date:||Aug 24 03:06|
|Author:||Ex Lax Joe|
|You WILL be better off without your wife, but the kids will suffer.
BTW, both Ray A and Antishock have incredibly poignant stories on the biography board. They make me want to cry along with them for the pain they've suffered. (I hope the Ray A story I read was yours, Ray!)
It's not an easy journey, but it is extremely fulfilling to finally be a full person; a human being with no, or very little, baggage. Be true to yourself, and you can't go wrong.
Ex Lax Joe
|Subject:||Re: I agree with Ray A|
|Date:||Aug 24 03:53|
|Ex Lax Joe wrote:
(I hope the Ray A story I read was yours, Ray!)
Yes it was, and thanks for your considerate comments.
|Subject:||Welcome and don't despair|
|Date:||Aug 23 19:48|
|I know it seems overwhelming at first but so many people here have left the church and are still standing! We all have different stories and left under various circumstances. I just sent in a letter to have my name removed a few weeks ago and so I am just starting that process but I hope to be free and clear in a few months. I have been inactive for over 4 years and it has taken me that long to get up the nerve to do it! Good luck!|
|Subject:||Re: Been in church 30 years and I no longer believe|
|Date:||Aug 23 19:49|
|You know, it's like a gust of fresh air hits you when you come out
of the Mormon Coma and are back into reality, or at least even realistically acknowledge
It is not at all any "true church". It's all centered around getting all of the money it can from all members. That is the core of it.
I feel for you, especially if in Happy Valley.
Joining or leaving the church is an individual thing. It's tough when your whole family is dealing with someone not believing and leaving a very real brainwashing and controling cult. Sounds harsh but facts are facts.
I was a member all of my life too. I wore the garments and all. I left because I simply and in my own pace investigated the church from their own doctrines. I came here to the "evil infested Satan board" only to find there were kind, GOOD people here who DID have A LOT of knowledge (a few odd yet interesting ones as well).
Maybe doses little by little, respectfully, here and there to let it sink in will help. See, the church is very much set up as to smother all members in ONLY members and church EVERYTHING. I get so sick in my gut when I think of how I was also brainwashed. They want you to not be able to THINK or reason for yourself. It's sad, mean, twisted, anything BUT Christ-like, and very controling.
The church wants you to not be able to think clearly or function without it. You are set up to have NO friends outside of the church UNLESS you set out to secretly and selfishly convert them. Otherwise, you're not to have anything to do with "outsiders".
There is not ONE SINGLE SHRED of evidence that any of the Book of Mormon was based on a real group of people that actually existed outside of Joseph Smith's tutie frutie and perverted mind. He was a man who set out to do something and let his power get the best of him. Sort of like a Jim Jones or even Hitler way. One evening this past winter, I can't remember who it was but he figured out how to use the Bible to break names up and twist them about, and I have to tell you, many of us came up with so many VERY REAL sounding 'religious book' names in a matter of minutes. Any 12 year old could have done it, let alone a 14 year old. Many of us did it in a matter of minutes and came up with names just as good or better then Joseph Smith did for the Book of Mormon. I think it may have been Pravda but it was so long ago.
I've learned things that were never taught to me in church at all and I was so ashamed and even grossed out when I did research and found some of the things out. Angry when I found other things out. They are all church doctrine and were once taught by the church. The church rewrites it all to suit the times. They cover up, shove under the carpet, hide it, forbid it to be learned or read. It is all about control and manipulation.
This is certainly the place the church does not want other's to take part of. If they were the true church they would have nothing to fear. If they had the truth they would have no fears, but they don't. People who have the truth and are honest can stand on their own. There is so much fraud. It's all about money and ego/power trips for the higher ups. Don't kid yourself.
They are no longer going to treat your family, even if they do go without you to church and remain members, like they once did. Not if you stop going. They are also going to make your wife feel like crap little by little. In time you'll all feel and see the difference. Same with the children. I think you already know this. What kind of Christ-like behavior is that? None, that's what kind.
Garments are nothing more then stupid control weapons. If they can control you and your spouse in the bedroom, of all places, they have you hook, line, and sinker.
You'll find TRUE information here if you need it. Just ask and you'll get it. You'll get links to TRUE information. There are former members here that held so many various church "callings".
That mind that you have in your head is thinking for you. Obviously you are not as weak as they would want you to be. Get your family out sooner then later if you can but be patient. Respect situations and know that Rome was not built overnight.
It's all a lie, my friend. It's all a lie. Now I look to any females or ANY people I see out and about if I notice or can tell they are LDS and I just feel sorry for them.
|Subject:||The price of honesty|
|Date:||Aug 23 19:50|
|Dear jt, welcome and let me reasure you that your problems have only
begun. It's sad to say but the 11th article of faith is the biggest lie ever printed.
The mormon church does not allow everyone to "worship as they may". The will use every tactic in the book, including the threat of losing your family, to get you to return to the fold.
There will be talk about denying the holly ghost, and falling into the trecherous grasp of Satan. You will be spiritually and emotionally blackmailed by the church for the rest of your life.
The only way to put an end to the harasment is to expose the church for what it is. You can respect your wife and kids and their choice, but you owe to them to tell them the truth.
Your instincts are right. Even if you just got tired of the ever-tightening grip of the church, there is plenty of evicence to go around and show your loved ones that the whole thing is a crock.
If your loved ones are emotionally stable enough to be shown the truth without losing their mind (it's happened) then they should know the following truths the church has hidden from them:
Joseph Smith, by his own admission, didn't see God or Jesus in his first vision.
The witnesses of the Book of Mormon never saw the golden plates.
Science shows that the Book of Mormon is pure fiction.
Ditto for the Book of Abraham and the interpretation of the hyerogliphics facsimiles.
At the deaht of Joseph there was no sucession mechanism. Various mormon churches emerged. Brigham's church didn't have any higher claim than the others.
Brigham Young ruled with fear and blood. He was one of the worst dictators America has ever known. And he thought he was speaking for God when he decreed that the penalty for marrying a black person was death, and If the church abandoned poligamy, it would cease to be true.
Mormons commited many crimes against early apostates and the church was behind the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
In modern times the church has opposed civil rights and has engaged in accumulation of wealth. The modern prophet was fooled by a murderer into spending a fortune for false documents. This happened because the forger knew that the church rutinely buys "embarrasing" historical documents to supress them.
Youth in the church are at high risk of suicide due to unrealistic expectations and excessive guilt. Utah has the highest rate of teen suicides of the nation.
|Subject:||Welcome to the real world JT.|
|Date:||Aug 23 21:18|
|I was a member for about 38 years, not always active, but mostly
aware of what I could or couldn't do without inheriting the wrath of God.
Now I am free as a bird spiritually as I resigned officially two years ago.
This board offers a vast and incredible wealth of knowledge. The people here, for the most part, are very friendly, understanding and loving, because all of us know how it feels to be alone until we learned of this board or other ways to communicate with those of like mind.
If you need comfort, you'll find it here. If you have any questions the resources here are very knowledgeable and dependable.
This board is kind of like a close circle of friends who have also walked the same path as yourself.
Cheer up buddy, there will always be someone here with a listening ear and a caring heart.
|Subject:||The more happy, content, and pleasant you are as a NON believer|
|Date:||Aug 23 21:37|
|the more confused they get! Drives the TBM nuts!
Let them see how being a non-believer has not turned you into an ogre-monster to be dreaded and feared!
Look them straight in the eye, smile, be kind, polite, and watch them squirm. They will eventually "get it" that there is no "devil" in you, you are the same great person you always were.
Do fun things. Go places. Invite other people.
Just because they dropped you does not mean you have to DROP them!
Remember that there are no: wouldas shouldas couladas whatifs....only WHAT IS! We all do the best we can, make the best decisions we can with the information we have at the time.
There is nothing wrong with you. You are OK you were ALWAYS ok. Pat yourself on the back for figuring it out.
They are living in fear. NOT YOU!
People are emotionally bonded to their superstitions and Mormonism is no different.
See what I mean?
And, above all, KEEP your SENSE of HUMOR on HIGH. Mormonism is very funny stuff.
When I want a good laugh, I just visualize the WHOLE temple rituals done in the GREEN APRON ONLY!! :-)
|Subject:||that really is good advice|
|Date:||Aug 24 02:52|
|From my Catholic POV:
...if you use your church absent time constructively and to ease her hectic life -- do yard work, clean house, vacuum, do dishes, start laundry -- while she's at church, she will eventually accept your absence much better than if she comes home and is resentful to find a husband still in bed or watching TV.
My husband always cleaned when I was at church and I cannot express how delightful it was, when coming home tired, to find a clean house. Who could be grumpy? (And he always pointed out everything he did in case I hadn't noticed)
|Subject:||A veritable Mr. Mom you married! How wonderful! (hen-pecked, but wonderful) n/t|
|Date:||Aug 24 04:05|
|Subject:||it must comfort you to think so n/t|
|Date:||Aug 24 04:24|
|Subject:||Be honest with your wife...|
|Date:||Aug 23 21:37|
|I give this same advice to everyone.
Talk to her about how you feel. Tell her you still love her and the kids more than anything and that you want to work things out so that there is still respect between the two of you.
Don't press her to see 'the Truth. That will push her away.
Let her know that you respect her desire to go to church. However, she also needs to respect you and your desire not to go. You no longer believe that the church is true.
I think if you make the income, you have every right to not allow your hard earned money to be tithed. If she works, she should be able to pay tithing on what she makes.
This thing about her thinking you will go to hell is absolutely unreasonable. That is Typical morg thinking though.
IMO, you need to sit her down and ask her to look you in the eye and tell you if she honestly thinks that you are going to hell. Does she really think that you, her husband, and father to her children, by making a decision like this is destined for outer darkness. If so, is that a God that is worth believing in? What a jerk if he is like that. (I am, of course, assuming that you have been and continue to be a great husband and father.)
Best of luck to you. This is such a hard decision, and I know must be really hard living where you do.
We are here if you need to vent.
|Subject:||jt, I really feel for you....|
|Date:||Aug 23 21:58|
|...all I can say is I hope things will work out for the best.
Sometimes (And I'm not saying this is the case in your case) we need to do whats the best
thing for our own interest. But if this means having your entire life destroyed, then
odviously it's not in your best interest. Sometimes it's better to cut our loses and start
a new life, for our own sanity.
Remind your wife that you wouldn't be happy in the celestial kingdom anyways. Many general authorities have stated that you will be the happiest in the kingdom you end up in. Also, Mormon doctrine specificly states (I don't know what they teach now) that those who are in higher kingdoms can visit the lower kingdoms when ever they want. So if she was that determined to be with you, and really loved you, she would only want you to be where you would be happiest and respect your decision to reject Mormonism. They freak out over nothing, the whole thing is an entire fraud of circular thought, and at times we just need to tell our family how things really are.
I got an email from my father a week or so ago; preaching, and telling me how to live my life. I told him point blank, "Do you want to be my father or would you prefer to destroy our relationship over religion"? What is true Christianity? Do Mormons not claim "true Christianity"?
They do... "True Christianity" is supposed to be tolerant, is it not?
I'm not sure your entire situation, but for your own sanity, I believe you need to stand up.
|Date:||Aug 23 22:00|
|Ah...you have brought a tear of joy to my weary soul!
Good for you! Another sleepwalker awakened from the eternal coma known as mormonism. Do not beat yourself up over the time lost in that spiritual prison, instead feel grateful for every wonderful moment you will now get to live on your terms and conscience.
Personally, I feel the wisest course of action is to fully remove yourself emotionally from mormonism even if you have to go through the motions a bit. Emotional freedom brings happiness and eventual physical freedom. Remove yourself, and take stock of your life and situation and then you can more easily work on the physical freedom.
You cannot wake others till they are ready and bringing up all the bullshit of the church feels so good, but it will alienate others from you.
Give yourself time, flip off some uptight assholes in your ward to relieve a little pressure and let the healing begin!
|Subject:||Take a deep breath.....|
|Date:||Aug 24 02:00|
|Many here will suggest you blast your wife and family with "the
truth". But remember, just a short while ago, even you might not have been able to
handle it. You can't expect others to be ready just because you are.
I suggest you don't try to prove the church is false. Just work within the framework that it is true, and start asking your wife what she enjoys about it, and why. Most people deep down don't enjoy it, but are just trying to fit into the club. Their greatest fear is fear of rejection. That overrides logic. It takes a while to realize that they might be able to survive without the support of the church. Some never realize that and will choose marriage to the church over marriage to their partner.
You might ask her what about the celestial kingdom she will enjoy. Polygamy? Temple work? Church meetings? Scripture study? If she truly likes those things, suggest that you do much more of them. Try going to the temple as often as possible with her. Discuss what kind of women you might want as other wives. Spend a couple hours a day reading scriptures with her. Make your prayers over dinner longer - after all, that is what she enjoys, right?
You might ask why you can't both go to the terrestrial kingdom and be with her. Why would god not allow that? Doesn't make any sense. Suggest that doctrine is flexible (temple ceremonies, polygamy, blacks/priesthood doctrine changes, etc) changes. Maybe they'll decide families can be together outside the CK.
I know you can be angry at this stage. But I wish someone would have lightened me up a bit. You can have fun with this. Yes, it may be hard, but you'll have a much larger perspective in a few years. Just hope the family survives.
Going along to get along is not an option in the long run. It will drive you crazy. There is no reason you should have to do church if you don't want to. I gradually worked my way out of it, giving my wife some time to adjust. She joined me out of the church a year later and things are nice, now. But there is the risk that she'll dump you for the church. While that sounds bad, at least you'll know where you stand. You can't stay married when you know how you matter less to her than impressing the ward and relatives. But just give her some time. In a year, you should be totally out, and she will have accepted it if she has character.
|Subject:||Re:RE: (You've) Been in church 30 years and I no longer believe|
|Date:||Aug 24 03:36|
okay. I understand. I understand that you have not been "able" to think your yourself. Others, posting here, have also rejected the "controlling, brainwashing environment" that is typical for those of Happy Valley.
WHAT IF you could breathe the air freely, elsewhere?
WHAT IF you had real opportunities to be--what do they call it?--"a free-spirited person", without giving up the closely-held ideas you have (that are part of the gospel--I'm not saying "church", here: I'm saying "gospel")
WHAT IF a person like me is not just giving you a "line" (with hook and sinker attached)?
Can you--could you--divorce yourself from your Happy Valley perspective without "unloading it all, altogether"?
Do you really THINK that Utah is the "repository of all things good"? (On some subconscious level do you still believe that that must be so?)
One of the other posts, here, in response to your input, said that she(?) could compare Jos. Smith, Jr. with Hitler:
not in MY perspective! I will, without shame, come to Joseph Smith's "rescue". If the "church" is "controlling, & etc.", Jos. Smith was not: it was He, after all, who received the revelation regarding such, and similar-such, behaviors: the revelation thereafter known as D&C 121:34-45.
If HE were controlling, he would never, ever have "pretended to receive" something that would have "condemned himself, outright"!
In the book, Teachings of the Prophet Jos. Smith, he, Joseph, wrote many things which had formed part of his own informal, personal thoughts: it was he, himself, who CONDEMNED the now-prevalent "behavior-type" that wants to "cram it down the throat with the finger" (to use almost the very words that HE used, in his personal observations).
If anyone was above all that, it was Jos. Smith, Jr!
Jos. Smith was not "tutie frutie", as some would call him: but (what of) the people that followed? (YES! MANY tutie frutie types there be, mee friend!...who wish to "cram it down the throat with the finger")
One person I recently read as a post to the website ldsmag.com, said that his/her grandfather--just days before he passed away--said to this person's mother,
"Get the hell out of Utah: Utah is dead!"
The writer, in RE: the above statement, ended up being born in Texas (I think). And, whereas that person did not feel any particular "shame" at having "Utah forefathers" (who, by the way, DO eventually come from somewhere ELSE!), the writer of that post said that he/she "has moved beyond that" (beyond what? beyond "promoting one's own ego by standing on the head of one's ancestors")
I think the above is very good advice! He/she was VERY grateful for having grown up in Texas where singing "Firm as the Mountains around Us" makes no bleeping sense; neither does "celebrating July 24" make any sense to Texans.
THEY, it seems, are a "practical lot"; and, if the "shoe doesn't fit" (in RE: customs and observances), they refuse to wear it!. Bully for them! (as the English say).
Do you have the "courage" to move to where the "air is free"? I testify--as they do in court--that the Mormons east of the Mississippi "breathe infinitely freer!" (Especially those who were not "raised in the SOUP": do you know what I mean, here?)
So, if you somehow identify with the "social-soup system" [is that a good definition of socialism, maybe?], then you
may just as well stay where you are, surrounded by all those people who think like clones and act like clones and expect YOU to be a clone.
Are you GOOD at "putting on faces" (pretending)? It seems that you have had to do this. Remember, that after a time, the "grind of pretense" will end up being "just another form of hypocrisy, only expressed differently".
That's the "skinny of it". (I have a daughter your age, if that says that I have had a long experience within this religion). A parting "shot": the "church" and the "gospel" are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS: are you aware of that?
If Jos. Smith was "guilty" of being assassinated, and Brigham Young was "guilty" of the MMM (Mountain Meadow Massacre), which of the two do you think is responsible--directly or indirectly--for the "empire-building mindset"?
Those who would discard the Book of Mormon have decided to ignore the stories of the people contained within it: there was a "real concern" of a group of people with the "king-man mentality". (We of the 21st century, however, have a different challenge: we are given the opportunity of "rooting out such tendencies within ourselves", if they exist there, at all, and then 'standing firm', on that principle.) Can't a person find stories there, in the Book of Mormon, that will teach some valuable lessons?
To get a little more personal, here, I "never" experienced such jackass behavior as when I lived where there were (immature) LDS leaders who were "born and raised" to think that it was normal to "herd people like heifers" and to use a "cattle prod" to "get the job done"....
....you haven't lived, my friend, until you "get away from THE DEAD ZONE." Capish? (Italian for "comprende"?)
I rest my case.
|Subject:||Addendum (and caveat)...|
|Date:||Aug 24 03:54|
I don't prescribe "running away" as an answer: a wise man once told me that "having concrete goals and 'running to' something else" represent the "real" doctor's orders (ie, prescription).
If one "run's away from" one's religious upbringing, that person may well find life to be less fulfilling: in short, "stay in the battle and duke it out" (or, get out of "Dodge" and go where you "can live around people who are like-minded" WITHIN the religion). They DO exist....
...but not in a dead zone! Capish?
|Subject:||I was only a member for 9|
|Date:||Aug 24 06:06|
|While I wasn't a member long, it was a let-down for me that I had chosen so wrong when I converted. Welcome to the club. Lots of good people post here.|
|Subject:||TAKE IT SLOW!!!!|
|Date:||Aug 24 07:33|
|The best thing I can suggest is that you take it slow and take it
Never attack GBH or any current church leader. A better approach would be if you said that you do not believe that "Adam is God the Father and the only God we will ever have anything to do with" or that you don't believe that the Church will be damned for giving up polygamy.