Stories of two women who helped their husbands see the truth of Mormonism
|Subject:||summary of problems in TBM relationships|
|Date:||Oct 12 19:48|
|Author:||on the way out|
|I was just reading the summaries of problems in the relationships
where one spouse is still TBM.
|Subject:||It sounds like a very wise and effective approach. Change takes time.|
|Date:||Oct 13 05:50|
|A person critical of the church can recite a dozen unimpeachable
facts that should convince reasonable people that Mormonism is based on a false
foundation. But it takes time for a TBM to absorb and digest that kind of
information--especially if they have built their entire adult life around the demands of
the Mormon organization.
What you did sounds just right for a lot of couples. Take it slow, let the TBM spouse catch up and discover many of the problems for him/herself. Don't expect instant agreement. Let them know that you won't put issues with Mormonism ahead of your commitment to them.
Certainly, this won't work for every couple, but for a lot of people who love and generally get along well with their TBM spouses, it sounds like a good prescription.
I'm happy to hear that things worked out for your family.
|Subject:||a few more thoughts Change takes time.|
|Date:||Oct 13 17:14|
|Author:||on the way out|
... I really feel for those that are stuck with trying to hold on to their family and trying to keep their sanity and undo the terrible mess that the church has made out of their lives. Especially after I started looking at it from the outside. it is almost like once you are outside the mind screw you no longer can try to be inside it at the same time. For the husband trying to get their wives out I think it is even more complicated because of the abusive mind control the church has over women. I enclosed a quoate that helped my husband see how tied in knots I have been and I hope maybe it might help some husband understand the total mess they are trying to untangle their wives from. I think some people try to teach people the church is not true just like the missionary discussions. It isn't about "losing your testimony" it is about FINDING REALITY.... I am particularly at odds about what to suggest to a spouse who's whole relationship revolves around the church. we have a friend who told me the other day " If we don't talk about the church or our kids we wouldn't have anything to talk about" This just dumbstruck me. I mean I don't see how this marriage can be saved outside the church if there isn't a deeper friendship and companionship and sharing going on underneath. I mean these are the wives that would love to be sealed to JS if they had the chance they are so messed up in the head. Untieing that knot is just going to be tough because it is so knarled up with crap.
Ironically most women are not happy in the church. I taught many a lessons in RS where the sisters looked like they were just dead tired and trying to find something positive. That is why anti-depressants use is so high among the women. They all have battered wife syndrome. Only the church has made them like that. If you husbands do chose to read the double bind book on this site I hope that you might be able to see how the church ties all of us in knots. my husband was never sexist and encouraged me through a very demanding career but I was like that scarlet letter movie carving the A into my own chest bleeding to death.
For insomniac I wondered a few things...is your wife really happy in the church or does she use all of those crafts and gifts to try to get appreciation and approval? If she is really happy she would be the first woman I have ever met and I mean that. My guess is that she used those gifts because it is the only way she can buy affection from the church and get points....since any callings she has are meant to be for god. Women would cut off their leg before someone thought they were selfish so the church leaps on that....Just wondering
Anyways this quoate really explains what I am trying to say
Qoate from the double bind here on the site
I, also, had been led to think the enemy was "out there," and to ignore anything that wasn't in Mormonism; in that respect, I was ignor-ant. Later, I would be blamed by my husband, for having been "so naive." Members of the church, and women especially, are programmed with "milk" images and labels; in fact, we have all been commanded to ... ("Yes,") ... become as little children, have faith, and trust in our husbands, and our leaders (Stage 2, 3), ("But,") ... then, later, we are accused of being "naive," as if to say "Grow up, you're not a child," or, "You should have known that we are only human" (Stage 6). The two stages create a double-bind, used over and over again, by the "Shepherd" who says, "Trust me!" ... "Don't question authority," and the "Wolf," who says, "Be responsible; you 'chose' to be ignorant."
Subject: ***girl in the box archive? Date: Oct 13 17:21
|thanks for your thoughts, "on the way out".
"She can't even get out of the grave without you calling her name".
extraordinary thought . . . [In Mormonism, the husband calls the wife from the grave]
Part 2 - Another wife talks about her husband no longer being a believer in Mormonism.
|Subject:||Something to be thankful for today--my spouse is out!|
|Date:||Nov 28 22:40 2002|
|I just have to share with you all that my husband is officially a
disbeliever in Mormonism, and it only took a year! ;)
He just casually and out-of-the-blue told me that he's been thinking about it and has realized that he doesn't like the church's emphasis on guilt and fear, and he doesn't believe any of the rest of it either. He said that they tell you that you'll be unhappy if you don't follow their rules, but that he hasn't been unhappy at all when he hasn't gone to church or read his scriptures. He also said that he has not been any happier while he's been doing everything they tell him to. He talked about how his parents have had one misfortune after another despite the fact that they were paying tithing and "living the gospel." He also criticized The Miracle of Forgiveness and said that it's supposed to be about forgiveness but that it mostly just enumerates the ways you can sin. He also doesn't like the Mormons' conservative bias, since he's liberal.
He also told me a couple of interesting things about his past contact with his father and with the ex-bishop. He said that the bishop continues to contact him at work, calling and leaving messages and e-mailing him. You'd think that he would get a clue that my husband isn't going to respond, lol. He said that when he was talking to the bishop about my apostasy(many months ago), he suggested that he pray that something bad would happen to me or to someone I love so that I'd be scared back into the church. My husband expressed his opinion that this is truly a sick desire. He also told me about how, when we were on the verge of divorce, his dad would use "catch phrases" like "You need to be the patriarch of the family." We both asked, "What the hell does that mean?" I told him that I think it means, "Just beat your wife into submission," or, at any rate, "Tell your wife she has to go to church and take the kids whether or not she wants to." I don't know what century this man is living in.
Since we had some wine with dinner, the only other step in introducing him to apostate culture is to get him some regular underwear. I said I'd buy him some garment-style Calvin Kleins, should he want some undies without Masonic symbols on them.
I'm very proud of him for having the courage to take this step. While I think that it can be easier in some ways to have a spouse who leaves before you, it must also be hard to get past being on the defensive for the Morg and into being open-minded, while trying to avoid the spouse's "I-told-you-so's," lol.
It's interesting to me to see the various reasons and ways that people leave Mormonism. While he looks at his own experience with the religion, I'm more convinced by the problematic history and doctrine, but both seem to be compelling reasons to leave that cult.
Anyway, neither of us would be out without this board, I'd dare say, so thank you for helping us leave the ranks of the gods-to-be in favor of humanity. It looks like we'll even have our names removed before we move in order to avoid further harassment of us and our kids.
I love each and every one of you, InthenameofJesusChristamen.
|Subject:||oh, oh, oh! i hope you return and report on his TBM family's reaction to this news|
|Date:||Nov 29 01:01|
|Subject:||LOL, J, I'm sure I will! You know, the reason he stayed in...|
|Date:||Nov 29 01:10|
|as long as he did was because of extreme pressure from our families.
Once he was able to confront them about trying to treat him like a child, he was able to
examine Mormonism and get out from under their influence. So many people stay in just to
keep their families happy, I'd guess.
You know, though, J, my in-laws didn't like me anyway since I'm a graduate student headed for my own career. Like most Mormons, they want to see women staying home, cooking and cleaning and giving lots of free labor to the Morg and to the community. While I certainly think volunteering is good, I think that my kids are better off if I strive for a higher earning power. That's another thing my husband has a problem with, actually--the amount of time and money that the Mormon Church takes away from one's children.
|Subject:||Thank you, J and closet_gentile. Some advice for part-apostate families:...|
|Date:||Nov 29 01:05|
|One big mistake I made was to bother my husband about Mormonism a lot. Once I eased off (it took about nine months, lol, before I stopped reading to him about the history and doctrine) he was able to stop being on the defense all the time. At the same time, though, I must say that my comments might have sunk in and maybe contributed to his eventual departure. I can relate to others with believing spouses, though, since I doubted that this day would ever come. I would read about others' spouses leaving the cult and think that it would never happen to me. I've been dreaming of him telling me that he no longer believed for over a year now. It's kind of fun that it happened on Thanksgiving! And yes, we did have a nice holiday at home. I think I'm most excited that my kids will never have to be involved with Mormonism! While Mormon kids are taking seminary, they'll be able to take physics and calculus, lol, something I missed because of release-time seminary.|
|Subject:||Wow !!! -- I'm so envious of you ...|
|Date:||Nov 29 09:41|
|I wish my wife would eventually see the light and come out of
morgdom. I'd do anything to make that happen, but as of now it feels like there is no hope
I'll get to where you are now.
I'm very happy for you both. Your out of it together, and that's got to be the greatest success story this board has to offer those of us still struggling with those we love.
Thanks for taking the time to give us the update in your personal life.
|Subject:||What a nice way to celebrate Thanksgiving! Something got his attention|
|Date:||Nov 29 11:44|
|so he would pay attention to what he all ready knew!
The defensive position does not let in anything new and you were very wise to back off. Defending the indefensible is exhausting!
It is so much better to be united and clear!
Now another fun journey begins!
|Subject:||Yes, it was exhausting for him, so much so...|
|Date:||Nov 29 23:44|
|that he has no desire to talk about Mormonism ever again! And that's fine with me. We can just forget about it and move on.|
|Subject:||My husband said he would never leave,...|
|Date:||Nov 29 23:37|
|so I know how you feel. Be patient, and you never know! She'll see in you that you that there's life outside Mormonism.|
|Subject:||That's creepy about that bishop & your father-in-law.|
|Date:||Nov 29 11:46|
|Good old dad just wants his son to exert his priesthood and force
the family to be mormon? Yeah, right.
That bishop prays for disasters to happen to inactives? Sick!!
You made my day with your good news. Stories like this validate this board and the participants' efforts here. Happy continued recovery to you and your family. Thanks to you your kids may not need aboard like this.
|Subject:||Yes, Cheryl. My sons should never need a board like this,...|
|Date:||Nov 29 23:41|
|and they'll never have a bishop ask them if they masturbate, lol.
They have a very strong sense of ethics without Mormonism. While we were watching Treasure
Planet tonight, my five-year-old yelled out (about the bad guy), "You're lying. You
should tell the truth." I think it's been good for my husband to see that our kids
are just fine without Joseph's myth.
And yes, what he told me about his dad's and bishop's advice was very disturbing. I could tell that he's been wanting to tell me for a long time.
|Subject:||Yes, I'm breathing huge sighs of relief, all right....|
|Date:||Nov 29 23:42|
|My husband probably thought it was funny when he saw me literally breathing my relief while I typed this update last night.|
|Subject:||Congratulations! And about that transition...|
|Date:||Nov 29 14:14|
Being a mormon means having your entire life mapped out, being told what to do in all situations, etc. And when you drop all of that, you might suddenly feel like you're left without purpose, and you'll have a lot of extra hours in your week that you might not know what to do with.
So a good way to ease the transition, IMO, is to find ways to fill that time. My family, for instance, has designated Sundays as "Family Day", where we spend the day doing things together. I especially like going to museums, and this is helped even more with the Oakland museum having free Sundays occasionally, or a co-exhibit with D.E.A.F. Media (a group that does sign language related performances and stuff).
And you know, when they have exhibits on the ancient Native Americans, we're no longer shaking our head on how all those poor professionals and experts got the time frame of the Lamanites totally wrong... :-) Instead, we can explore the history of ancient America unfettered by Joseph Smith's limited (and grossly incorrect) imagination.
Or go to the park, the zoo, a hike, a picnic in a nature reserve, that sort of thing. I love being in the California Bay area, because there's an endless supply of such stuff. At least three decent zoos within easy driving distance (SF, Oakland, San Jose), more museums than I can count, lots of nice regional parks that aren't just a landscaped lawn with swings, but have all sorts of trails, wildlife, nature exhibits, etc.
Anyhow, so we fill our time, learn about our world, spend mucho time together, that sort of thing. And it beats the mormon grind any day.
|Subject:||Great advice, DeafGuy--keeping busy with fun stuff...|
|Date:||Nov 29 23:47|
|seems to be important. Like you said, when you're Mormon, everything is mapped out for you. It's exciting to get to decide for youself what's right for you instead of having to fit into the Mormon box.|
|Subject:||Thank you, sonoflds--your presence here helped with my exit...|
|Date:||Nov 30 00:28|
|and I'd guess with my husband's too. We were both surprised to see former Mormon leaders who are now out. It helped us to see the light. :)|