|Date:||Nov 14 19:21|
|Author:||the gentle gentile|
|In reading thru some archived messages I read something about "California" mormons vs. "Utah" mormons? What does this refer to?|
|Subject:||Re: "California" mormons?|
|Date:||Nov 14 19:33|
|Author:||Mook The Fist|
|California Mormons (or any outside of Utah for that matter) tend to be a little more liberal and less arrogant than the rabid Born In the Covenant (BIC) variety who live within the vacuum of the Zion Curtain.|
|Subject:||Absolutely true. I live in Calif and my wife's relatives are in Ogden.|
|Date:||Nov 14 19:37|
|Author:||Jerry the Aspousetate|
|The difference is between daylight and outer darkness.
Pay Lay Ale
|Subject:||Arizona Mormons are just as bad, if not worse, than Utah Mormons.|
|Date:||Nov 14 19:45|
|Once Mormons reach critical mass in a state, they seem to become more arrogant.|
|Subject:||Re: Arizona Mormons are just as bad, if not worse, than Utah Mormons.|
|Date:||Nov 14 20:41|
|I live in Arizona. Perhaps it's because I live in the far west side
of Phoenix that I don't see too many Mormons here. I however did take note in our local
newpaper that they are in the process of building a new Mormon church so my guess is there
has to be people around here to fill it.
I have gone way in depth in my research on Mormonism. Ever since I was 16 (I'm nearly 40 now) My boyfriend was Mormon so I went to church and had quite a few Mormon friends. I went through all the classes and decided the Church had too many unanswered questions and also I didn't buy into what was being told to me. It sounded too far fetched to me. Ever since then Mormons have always intrigued me. I think it's when I discovered about the "secret underwear" I always wondered what else was hidden from me. Deborah Laake's book "Secret Ceremonies" answered quite a few of my questions. I really enjoyed reading her book and it brought me great insight into the LDS faith.
I have to admit.....im still intrigued by the garmies...where do I get a hold of a pair, I want to see what they look like.
|Subject:||Repost of SuzieQ#1's instructions for ordering garments online|
|Date:||Nov 14 22:24|
Go to lds.org
Click on Order Church Materials
Click on Temple Clothing Endowed Members on the Order Church Materials page and if it asks for a number, put in any 7 digit number and it works! Also,it seems to save it on your computer!
Tell a TBM that their church advertises their underwear on the INTERNET and they will say you are lying!! Anyone can order these garments on line with a credit card!
|Subject:||Re: Ahwatukee, AZ mormons ...|
|Date:||Nov 15 12:25|
|I am told are quite laid back about things like the WoW. I was told
that it was not uncommon for lds couples to get together and drink socially infront of one
another.. Teh Churrch is much more of a social thing.
Gilbert mormons on the other hand are more nazi-like ..
|Subject:||Funny but true. In Maryland...|
|Date:||Nov 15 13:41|
|Author:||girl in the box|
|...Mormons are almost more Christian than they are Mormon. Don't
know why, just came out that way! I really respect the ward I was in there because they
acted like people who actually cared about spirituality and their neighbors.
Utah...brrrr...I don't even like to remember it.
|Subject:||Re: "California" mormons?|
|Date:||Nov 14 19:36|
|Not sure, but a nevermo friend told me he never had any problem with
Mormons when he lived in California. In fact, he had Mormon friends. It was only after he
lived in Utah and Arizona that he began to dislike them.
Apparently California Mormons are considerably less obnoxious than the Utah and Arizona variety. Probably due to the fact that they are a distinct minority in California, they don't expect everyone else to be like them.
|Subject:||Re: "California" mormons?|
|Date:||Nov 14 19:58|
|I would say that's true. I had several Mormon friends in high school and college before I joined. Those who aren't aware of my joining and leaving actually treat me better than those I only met as a member. For the most part, as long as religion isn't brought up, they let you live your life the way you want. In general, the Mormons in California are much more liberal than those in Mormon states such as Utah, Idaho, and Arizona.|
|Subject:||My experience with California Mormons|
|Date:||Nov 14 20:04|
|I had several Mormon friends in high school and college before I joined and gave me no problems or tried to convert me. It's only when I dated my ex-husband that I was invited to church events, the first step in trying to convert people. In general, the Mormons in California are much more liberal than those in Mormon states such as Utah, Idaho, and Arizona. The only real problem has been the missionaries showing up after I sent in my exit letter. Since I wrote another letter to the local bishop, they seem to respect my privacy.|
|Subject:||I was a California mormon and, in retrospect, the best thing|
|Date:||Nov 14 20:02|
|that happened to me was moving to Utah.
Within 3 months of my arrival I was an apostate.
Huge difference! Couldn't bear the arrogance and control of the Utah mormons. Thank god they helped me see the light!
|Subject:||Re: I was a California mormon and, in retrospect, the best thing|
|Date:||Nov 14 20:07|
|Author:||Mook The Fist|
|That actually happens fairly frequently. When I was living in Utah, I'd see members move in from out of state excited to be living among the Saints. Then, after a few months, they're totally disenchanted and embarrassed at the behavior of God's Chosen People.|
|Subject:||I obviously knew the wrong California Mormons. The ones I knew were "Iron Rodders."|
|Date:||Nov 14 20:28|
|In fact, it was downright scary how Iron Rod they were. I'm a BIC
who has lived my entire life in SLC. There might be a difference between Salt Lake Mormons
and so-called Utah Mormons, too. I don't know.
Excuse the generalizations, but from my experience, Salt Lake Mormons aren't as "staunch." They are sort of lazy in the Church. Minimal effort. Do the Church thing out of habit. Little real passion for the Church or it's doctrines. Testimonies were usually a travelog or an "organ recital" about the latest operation.
My father's cousins, on the other hand, were Stake President types living in Torrence (I probably misspelled it) and Englewood (both moved to Arizona when the racial mix wasn't to their liking). Their kids were a mixed bag, from ultra TBM to druggies. They were always SHOCKED when I would order a coke. The one Stake President and his oldest daughter in particular drove me nuts. They were worse than Jimmy Falwell. Extremely judgemental and narrow minded, with a touch of racism thrown in. One thing I'll give them though, they didn't just give lip service to believing. It wasn't just a cultural thing for them. They BELIEVED.
One thing I do remember about California Mormons -- the summer I was at University Villa at BYU. They looked great in bikinis.
|Subject:||My view of it when I was a TBM was somewhat different.|
|Date:||Nov 15 12:04|
|Being from Colorado, my first contact with California Mormons was
with companions on my mission, then afterwards at BYU.
My impression was that being Mormon was a big part of who the California kids were, but that they didn't want to come off as too TBM. In my judgmental TBM days, I saw it as wanting to have one foot in Zion and the other in Babylon. They would come to BYU - which was already getting hard to get into by then - and then proceed to complain about EVERYTHING. Utah was crappy. BYU was crappy. The people of Utah were crappy.
Well, even back then I could see that they had a point. But why, then, were they here? In retrospect, they were probably just trapped between living their own life and making their parents happy, (which is something that all kids have to deal with). Being from a more liberal environment, their complaining was probably a natural reaction to a more orthodox situation. Perhaps they couldn't go to the better schools back home because their parents wanted them to go to BYU and "get a testimony."
I saw a real pecking order at BYU. The California kids let the Utah kids know how "uncool" they were. Then both the California and Utah kids let the Idaho kids know how hopelessly uncool they were.
|Subject:||I, too, was a California mormon|
|Date:||Nov 14 21:28|
|who spent much time in the Midwest. Spending 6 months in University Village at UofU was a huge eye opener for me. I vowed never to live in Utah again (and haven't). It took me several years to see the light, but I am so very glad that I did.|
|Subject:||As an exmormon living in California|
|Date:||Nov 14 22:13|
|I find a mixed bag. Mormons that I have worked with (they do not
know that I was ever a mormon) have been cool. Just like working with anyone else.
However, my daughters have dated some mormons (there's not that many here, what are the odds?) and have been absolutely perplexed by the experience, such as suddenly being dropped. Somewhere along the line, the parents found out I was a mormon, so they are very wary about my never-mo kids dating their kids.
For the record, I would NEVER tell a kid how to believe, I would not (and never have) said anything against mormonism to underage kids.
|Subject:||I am a Californian and former mormon...Trust me on this people|
|Date:||Nov 14 22:18|
|There's a world of difference between Utah Mormon's and California Mormon's, just as there's a world of difference between Utah and California. My California nephew went to Utah on a mission and he couldn't believe the kind of food they eat up there compared to here, for starters.|
|Subject:||Calif. ExMorgbot with Arizona and Utah Relatives|
|Date:||Nov 14 23:42|
|I like to tell people I was born in the only keggerless college town
in America, this being Provo, UT, while my dad was studying law at the J. Reuben Clark Law
School. Fortunately, Donny Osmond (of all people) offered my dad a job which involed him
moving down here to Orange County. Away from all the family that stayed behind in Utah and
Arizona, whom we still visit two to four times a year.
Granted, Irvine is sort of like the Morgbots minus the Morg... but minus the Morg makes a huge difference. The first people who ever accepted me for me were the California Mormons, and some of the best memories I have of my teenage years were of doing things with the Irvine Stake Youth. Then I started dating an agnostic who had been on his high school debate team...it all went down hill from there.
I seem to have slipped under the radar down here at the moment (my home stake thinks I'm at the singles ward, the singles ward doesnt' know I exist), but I know the moment I send my exit letter in, I'll pop way up. Why I'm waiting on that one.
But I totally agree on on the Arizona, Utah Mormons thing. My aunts and uncles cannot concieve of the idea that anything the prophet might say is wrong. I won't go so far as to say they're overtly racist or sexist... perhaps have some strong biases. Let's say that, in their eyes, Pat Buchanan may have a few things wrong, but is basically right. It's awful having to visit them. And when I try to debate their viewpoint, I can't win, because they will never admit defeat. It always ends with, "The Prophet Said So." And that's pretty much how they live their life...
The Prophet Never Said One Damn Thing About Jello!!!
|Date:||Nov 14 23:51|
|California Mormons are less annoying. Californians are used to diversity (not Utah conformity); Californians are often converts and haven't picked up Mormon nosiness and boorish manners; Californians don't bring their religion to work.|
|Subject:||California mormons have tan lines under their garmmies :-)|
|Subject:||My California TBM folks vote democrat and...|
|Date:||Nov 15 00:32|
|My parents who are very active mormons (father in bishopric) and
live in california exhibit some strange behaviours unknown to Utah mormons.
They vote democrat
They believe pot should be legalized
They have four apostate children who they are close to and have no problems with.
They really truly believe homosexuality is wrong of course but they truly believe it's none of their business and have no animosity or real problem with being around gays. Yes, that means they actually live the truth behind the phrase "condemn the sin, not the sinner".
They're a little out there even for california mormons, I'll admit, but you'll never in a million years meet a Utah mormon with those traits
|Subject:||Not entirely true. My boss, a bishop here in SLC, has exactly those traits. n/t|
|Subject:||Hmmm. I wonder if there's a difference between California Ex-mormons and Utah Ex-mormons?|
|Date:||Nov 15 12:10|
|From what I read here on the board, we're pretty much the same.
Although I wonder if Utah Mormons have a better chance of being exposed to the "truth" because we're confronted with the realities of the Church corporation (I began to doubt when I started working for KSL, the Church-owned TV station. It was management without a clue).
We don't put the leaders on quite as high a pedistal (We go to school with their kids and grandkids. We see them shopping at Costco in their unpolished shoes). And we have the advantage of having the Tanners and Sam Weller Bookstore where we have ready access to different points of views. And thousands of sucessful, happy, ex-mormons as role models. And perhaps the spiritual - as opposed to social - bonds here aren't as strong. I feel a conviction when I attend Church in California that I've rarely felt here in SLC.
What do you think? I think it might be tougher to see and experience the reality of the Church if you live outside Zion.
|Subject:||Utah culture is too polarizing|
|Date:||Nov 15 13:25|
|and the Church is everywhere. Utah Exmos can't really leave the
Church behind them. It would be like running into an ex-spouse everytime you go to the
grocery store. I think it makes Utah Exmos more anti. Has to.
In California, there's a big part of the culture that doesn't have any connection with the Church and simply doesn't care! An Exmo can rebuild a "normal life" outside the shadow of the Church. In California, an Exmo who wants to can really leave the Church behind them; that simply can't be done in Utah. Of course, there are always those pesky family ties . . .
|Subject:||Having been both a Utah and California Mormon|
|Date:||Nov 15 12:47|
|I have seen lots of changes over the years. Grew up in Utah, moved to CA in 1964. At first, it seemed as if Utah Mormons were much less devoted - after all, it was in their best interest economically and politically to be active Mormons, and most of them were totally surrounded by their families, so it was also a family thing. In California, those who were active in the church attended out of belief and devotion rather than economic or political self interest. But over time, I came to notice that with the onset of the correlation program, increasing conservatism in the leadership (and my own more liberal viewpoint- maybe because California "rubbed off" on me) Utah Mormons seemed parochial, extremely conservative, clannish, and bigoted in comparison with the liberal, "worldly", accepting and laid back Californians. One further note: I know personally several very active California Mormons who do not believe homosexuality is wrong, but is a trait that a person is born with, a belief that I also held the last 15 or 20 years of my life as a Mormon.|