|Subject:||Help with TBM [true believing Mormon] Wife|
|Date:||Nov 22 18:47 2002|
|I've never posted on this site before, but I've been visiting for a while. I've never been Mormon, but my wife was been born and raised in the church. We've been married for almost 12 years and have 2 beautiful girls(5 and 2). I've always been supportive of everything my wife has wanted to do in the church until now. She has finally given up on the dream that we will get married in the temple, and is now wanting to go herself. She really has no idea about real church history and how it has been changed. I want to talk to her specifically about the temple and all the changes as well as the rituals that go on there, but I don't know how to go about it. In her eyes the temple and what goes on there is sacred, and I probably shouldn't know all the goings on in there. But it breaks my heart to think of her going through there, and believing unequivocably that what she is doing is right. It is so obvious to me that it is all a figment of someone's imagination. I recently bought the book Origins of Power by Michael Quinn and am thinking of asking her to read this. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to open my wife's mind to the deception of the church without crushing her spirit. I've talked abou this issue with my parents, and they think I might be starting something that might have disastrous consequences. I love my wife with all my heart, but I'm having more and more trouble accepting her religion. Sorry for going on so long. Thanks for any help.|
|Subject:||Re: Help with TBM Wife|
|Date:||Nov 22 20:09|
|I wish I knew the answer to this one! I'm in a very similar
situation - married 8+ years, 3 daughters (7,4,2) - only both of us were born and raised
in the church.
She knows I no longer believe and we've even talked about a lot of the issues, but she still believes. The only thing I can say, from my experience so far are:
Keep it as non-confrontational as possible. If she doesn't want to hear, don't push it. If she's feeling uncomfortable, give her some room. This way, the door is always open in the future. The bottom line is, she's not going to see the church for what it is unless she wants to know the truth and that will only happen if she doesn't feel threatened by the situation.
My wife is a TBM and she might always be one, but as long as she's willing to talk about it, there's a chance that eventually she'll see the church for what it really is.
|Subject:||Going to the Temple may be an eye opener for your wife.|
|Date:||Nov 22 20:21|
|It is a weird experience and never got over it the 20 years I stayed
in the church. The problem is it is secret and if you can't discuss it with anyone then
you can't compare feeling you have. Maybe you should ask her if she is preparing to be in
the Celestial Kingdom with someone other then you after she is dead ?
There are a lot of people here that went from TBM's to not so it is possible but some people just do not have the capacity to think out of the Box and you both wish the other would chance some day. It is not easy when this happens and I wish you well in your journey.
|Subject:||First of all, welcome, shyguy...|
|Date:||Nov 22 20:35|
|I would suggest to use mormon doctrine and teachings to let her see
some of the contradictions at first. Study the scriptures together, and point out the
conflicting passages. Here in the board we have mentioned many.
For example the Book of Mormon says that David and Solomon were not justified in taking wives and concubines. D&C says that they were.
Paul says that God does "not dwell in temples made by hands". I posted that recently. Deconstructor has done that too. He and I believe that inconsistencies inside their own doctrine and scripture, rather than exposure of history, are the best evidence to show that it's just a church of men, at least at the beginning.
For a good list of scriptural incongruences, check out this site:
Your predicament is a delicate one. When a mormon starts to become more active in the church, she will be encouraged to become more and more involved.
In the temple they will ask her (among other things) to promise to sacrifice everything she has, all her talents and everything she will be blessed with in the future, to the church.
In general conference they will remind her to do more: Donate more time, more money, share the gospel with others, serve more, read more scripture, pray more. There is no end to the tightening of the noose around people's necks (They call that "eternal progression"). They teach that if you are not "progressing" (becoming more indoctrinated) you are "regressing" (following Satan).
It will come to the point where you no longer be adecuate as a partner. Her only goal and desire will be to have a righteous priesthood holder as a husband. She will pray that you'll receive a miraculous manifestation, and she will desire that more than anything else in this world, to the point that it will become a total obsession.
So you need to be careful, but you must not delay if you don't want the church's grip to tighten more and more.
Good luck to you.
|Subject:||Don't cast yourself in the devil's role.|
|Date:||Nov 22 20:58|
|Author:||Eve of Destruction|
|If you try to stop her from going to the temple and enjoying it as a
marvelous spiritual experience, the people at church will tell her that it wasn't enough
for you to prevent her from achieving the blessings of a marriage sealed for eternity, now
Satan is working through you to prevent her from going to the temple for her own
endowments. It will drive a wedge between you and her, and push her even more into the
If you want to stay married to this woman, you'll have to let her go to the temple, and let her draw her own conclusions about it. Surely there are some things you do that she'd rather you didn't (beers with your buddies, too much time on the computer, I don't know), and you've told us there is at least one thing you don't do that she wishes you would (join her church). She has apparently decided to accept you despite your choices. If you want to stay married, you need to accept her despite her choices.
You knew you she was Mormon when you married her, so don't expect to be able to change her. If she's going to change, it will have to be on her own. All you can do is remain loving and supportive.
Good luck to you and your girls. Is she raising them in the church? If so, I'd worry more about the girls than your wife. If not, count yourself and especially your daughters very fortunate.
|Date:||Nov 22 22:02|
|About eight years ago my loving husband came to the conclusion that
the church was a fraud. He very carefully guided me out but he took it slowly. He gave me
the book "Mormon Enigma, Emma Hale Smith" to read. He told me that it was
written (as it was) by three Mormon women. (Two of them later left the church)This book
really opened my eyes to Joseph Smith's true character. It tells about his affair with the
14 year old girl and many of the other things that went on in his life. This book really
started my questioning the leadership of the church. The church would never recognize this
book because it was not flattering to Joseph.
He later gave me to read "By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus" by Charles Larson which really opened my eyes. It took him about a year help me find my way out but I finally did. I had to study my way out on my own. He could not push me or I would get defensive.
We have now been out of the church for about 7 years. Our 24 year marriage has never been stronger. He also saved our four sons from going on Missions. The boys turned out fine because we are good parents not because of the Morman church. They are strong, think for themselves and are hard working.
|Date:||Nov 22 23:51|
|You must make sure that your marriage is stronger than her attachment to the church.|
|Subject:||Before she goes through the temple .... study everything you can on freemasonry|
|Date:||Nov 22 23:52|
|Get to know the masonic tokens in detail with their names, signs and
penalties. Tell your wife exactly what day that Joseph Smith became a Mason. Ask her to
find out exactly what day that Joseph Smith introduced the endowment. (HINT: It was 6
weeks after he became a Mason)
But I've learned from hard hard experience that all the facts in the world can't change the mind of a deluded person who believes in the doctrine of "feeling the Spirit". For a while myself I struggled with "the facts don't add up BUT I felt the Spirit". But once I realized that the "feeling the Spirit" doctrine's foundation was "because the Brethren say that feeling the Spirit is the witness of truth" then the reconciliation came easier.
|Subject:||marriage partners ought to be able to discuss anything, the temple is off limits|
|Date:||Nov 23 02:11|
|and if she goes, she will have put a wedge in your relationship -
shut you out by keeping secrets.
Keeping secrets is a marriage breaker ! She will be separating herself from the whole of your marriage.
Why would anyone want to do something like that?
If she takes that action, it shows she is not committed and is extremely selfish.