Subject: More on Mormon Apostle Ballard's talk---he's an expert on women! Painful letter from LDS woman that prompted his talk.
Date: Dec 19 02:20 2002
Author: LSands

Hearing that a GA actually used the words "sexy, sassy, sexually aggressive" in a talk drove me to look up the original article on http://www.lds.org. I'm posting some other excerpts of his talk here, followed by a few of my own comments.

Ballard:
"Perhaps being the father of our five daughters and now the grandfather of 22 granddaughters makes me an expert on the subject of women."

My turn:
They really believe this! How can any man be an "expert" on how women feel? That they believe this just shows how arrogant and patronizing they are! But who is there to tell them any differently?

Ballard again:
" Let me set the stage by quoting from a letter sent to Church headquarters. This woman wrote: 'I have a wonderful husband and children, whom I love deeply. I love the Lord and His Church more than I can say. I know the Church is true! I realize I shouldn’t feel discouraged about who I am. Yet I have been going through an identity crisis most of my life. I have never dared utter these feelings out loud but have hidden them behind the huge, confident smile I wear to church every week. For years I have doubted if I had any value beyond my roles as a wife and mother. I have feared that men are that they might have joy, but that women are that they might be overlooked. I long to feel that I, as a woman, matter to the Lord.' "

My turn:
When I read these words, as a woman who has been where this woman is, my heart breaks for her. She feels discouraged---yet in the same breath discounts her feelings by saying she "shouldn't" feel that way. How many of us hid behind huge, confident smiles? How sad that we all felt that we had to hide how we REALLY felt and pretend that our lives, marriages, and families were perfect and wonderful! How terribly shaming to never be able to be honest with each other. You can bet that when my son was arrested for using drugs, I did NOT go to Relief Society and discuss my terrible, agonizing pain or fear.

Ballard continues:
"Of this you may be certain: The Lord especially loves righteous women—women who are not only faithful but filled with faith, women who are optimistic and cheerful because they know who they are and where they are going, women who are striving to live and serve as women of God."

My thoughts:
Here, Ballard drives this poor woman right back behind her huge grin. She just needs to be "filled with faith, optimistic, and cheerful" so that the Lord will "especially" love her!

I sometimes find myself thinking that the church is rather benign and does a lot of good----and then I become aware again of BS like this and it enrages me! This is so hurtful and damaging to women---I'm so angry I can't even express it! Ballard just heaps on the guilt and reinforces again that this woman should not trust her feelings. Later in the talk he also uses the usual scare tactics by referring to Satan's temptations, to try to make women "miserable like unto himself", and assures all of the women that if they just "follow the (male) prophets" they'll be safe. In fact, it's the males who want to be safe---so they do their damnest to keep the women safely lobotomized!

What do you say, sisters? Do you think we should form a "Sexy, Sassy, and Proud of It" group? I'm sure some of you have some good ideas---now that you use the minds God gave you!


Subject: LSands, you went to the effort to say what I felt too tired or jaded
Date: Dec 19 02:29
Author: sg

to say.

Yes, you're absolutely right that he just drives her back into her corner. It's the same circular reasoning: if you're not happy with what we say should make you feel happy, then you don't have enough faith that we're here to make you happy. So have more faith in the fact that we're here to make you happy, and then you'll be happy.

BULL SHIT!!!!

This "talk" has enraged more than any morgbot bullshit has in a while.

I don't understand how our sisters can put up with this crap!


Subject: I totally agree(Don't read if you're offended by cussing and some F-Bombs)
Date: Dec 19 02:38
Author: Adrienne

I totally agree with you, Siog on this as well. The more I think about this asshole's talk, it REALLY pisses me off!! I am so f*ckING glad to be out of this sexist, bigoted cult. One good line I often wanted on a bumper sticker was "I am the intellectual your Prophet warned you about" but now I like the idea of getting something saying "I'm an exmormon because I'm sassy, sexy, and proud of it."

This cult is really bullshit, and I don't see how women can knowingly join this, unless they are easy prey for the missionaries, or in the case of people BIC, they are so brainwashed, they don't know the difference. f*ck BALLARD, f*ck BOYD KKK PACKER, and f*ck THE MORMON CULT!! If I had a chance, I'd cut Joesph Smith's dick off and ram it down his throat because he was nothing more than a perverted con man who really hated women. If I ever see a GA, especially Ballard, I would love to kick him in the nuts!!


Subject: "Sexy, Sassy, and Proud of It" would make a nice exmo license plate frame
Date: Dec 19 02:30
Author: Adrienne

Maybe the top can have exmormon, XLDS, or something like that, with that "Sexy, Sassy, And Proud of It" on the bottom of the frame. Either that, or it can be put on a T-shirt but the exmormon reference would have to be with that line so people can relate that to Mormonisim.


Subject: Does anyone believe Ballard really received this letter?
Date: Dec 19 07:46
Author: Jackson

I guess I just don't trust these guys at all anymore. This letter seems pretty canned to me. This is an answer from Ballard to a letter he created out of thin air as a pretext for a talk supporting the party line on women. I just don't believe he really received a letter like this -- why would anyone address a letter to Ballard in the first place? Wouldn't you just go right to the top to Hinckley? And my experience is these letters just get thrown back a the Bishop anyway.


Subject: no, but I'm sure he's heard stuff like that
Date: Dec 19 08:46
Author: msmom

so it's a composite.

Once I was interviewed on tape for a portraits of our sisters thing to be given to the SP. I was the ward nursery leader. When asked how I felt about my calling I said, "Left out."

I explained that I was 24 years old and home all day with three children in diapers. On Sundays when I might have an opportunity to visit with other adults, I spend 100 minutes supervising a roomful of children in diapers, followed by sacrament meeting in which I try to keep my own three under control.

I asked the interviewer if she really planned to share my remarks with the SP. "Oh absolutely," she promised, "This is exactly what he needs to hear."

Nothing changed in that stake. Remarks like that are used as examples for other sisters about how we ought to be content with the blessed callings we receive and if jesus came to our ward, he would stop at the nursery first.

I actually didn't mind the nursery at all, MUCH better than RS, but I wanted to give the SP something to think about. I'm sure I didn't.

Sexy, sassy, and strong - you know it sister!


Subject: For my Sensual, Seductive, Spunky, Sane, Secular Sisters...(language)
Date: Dec 19 11:14
Author: mary ann benson

Shame on those shifty, shallow shepherds for shattering sisters psyche by shackling them as slaves with their sweet soft-sell; subordinating them as second-class citizens and scapegoating them as senseless sheep!

Think I'll take my tithing money and go shopping! Buy myself a new sexy, scarlet negligee that will keep Steve spellbound...;)


Subject: Apostle Ballard on "the natural woman."
Date: Dec 17 19:25
Author: Rocannon

Thanks to Jezebel for the thread on the eye-opening talk by M. Russell Ballard. It was originally a BYU Devotional talk!!!! delivered March 13, 2001. Just one more reason not to send your daughters to BYU. It is reprinted in the April 2002 Ensign and the Dec. 2002 Liahona, available at lds.org (the link is way too long to post--maybe someone who knows how to shorten it can post it). Quotes and comments follow:

> Satan would have you [young women] dress, talk, and behave in unnatural and destructive ways . . . . Today's popular culture . . . celebrates the sexy, sassy, socially aggressive woman. These distortions are seeping into the thinking of some of our own women.

And that's a bad thing? He's totally confused on the use of natural or unnatural. In the BoM, "the natural man is an enemy to God." If that's true, then women SHOULD be striving to be UNNATURAL. I'm not sure he really understands what he is trying to say. If women can't be natural and can't be unnatural, just what are they supposed to be? Nothing, I guess.

Quoting a letter he received from a woman going through an identify crisis:
> I have never dared utter these feeling out loud but have hidden them behind the huge, confident smile I wear to church every week.

Well, this certainly correct GBH's recent remarks that all Mormon women are happy women, doesn't it? They are just good at hiding their unhappiness! Furthermore, Elder Ballard quotes this letter and doesn't even notice what leaps off the page: The Church smothers women! His article does nothing to suggest he remotely understands the concerns this woman addressed to him.

Again, from this woman's letter:
> For years I have doubted if I had any value beyond my roles as a wife and mother.

After stating that the Church sees a woman as more, so much more, than just wife and mother, his examples instead seem to confirm the point. What he praises about women relate to families, putting others first (sacrifice, I guess), and nurturing. Any assertion of independence or achievement outside the home would seem to fall under his condemnation of "the world's glitzy lies about women."

> We don't need women who want to be like men.

It sounds like he doesn't need women who want to be anything! Except what they're told to be, which is meek, humble, and submissive, and not just to God but to every male priesthood holder on the planet.

As apostles go, Ballard is, on the whole, balanced and articulate, so it's kind of disappointing to see him embrace the "gospel of female submission."

What's really crazy is that I read Ballard's talk and get upset, while my TBM wife (no dummy and not, by nature, particularly submissive) reads it and just yawns. The Church does a great job screwing up its women, doesn't it?


Subject: And what exactly is a "man" like?
Date: Dec 17 20:01
Author: estebanito

I think these idiots not only treat women like crap but seem to define what men should be as well. Here are the roles prescribed by the church:

Men: Authoritarians, rulers, owners, dictators, self-centered, powered by God, all decisions OKed by God, persons with the last word, all powerful.

Women: Submissive, weak, home workers, sweet, quiet, humble, baby-producers, whiners (per BY).

One of the problems I had growing up in the church as a guy was that I sure didn't fit the mold. I didn't play basketball, my creativity was not in line with the norm, I laughed entirely TOO loud, I enjoyed humor above any lesson ever given. My Dad didn't know what to do with me, I did not belong nor did I fit in. Perhaps this helped me out of the church only giving it half my life.


Subject: Oops! forgot "helpmeet"
Date: Dec 17 20:03
Author: estebanito

Now if the word "Helpmeet" isn't the most sexist thing ever uttered, I dunno what is. YOU DAMN WOMEN EXIST TO HELP ME GET MY THINGS DONE.


Subject: In Soviet Russia:
Date: Dec 17 20:20
Author: Smith Kennedy

I like women who are Smart, and Sassy, and act in these un natural ways.

I think it would be boring if I had a submissive woman who did everything I asked, It would suck, because I enjoy the little quips Carnivore and I shoot back at each other.

I mean we fight, but we enjoy it, it lets us know what the other is thinking, and keep our minds sharp for our battle of wits.

-Smitty


Subject: Apostle Ballard on the "sexy, sassy, socially aggressive woman"
Date: Dec 17 02:46
Author: Jezebel

Today’s popular culture, which is preached by
every form of media from movies to the Internet, celebrates
the sexy, sassy, socially aggressive woman. These
distortions are seeping into the thinking of some of our
own women.


"Women of Righteousness" Liahona, December 2002

Elder Ballard is worried about "satan's" effect on women. Women should obviously just be kept bare-footed and pregnant. Yeah baby... The whole article is on-line at lds.org


Subject: so glad I left ages ago (somewhat adult content)
Date: Dec 17 08:56
Author: msmom

because I'd definitely have to leave if I read the article that quote comes from. (Haven't read it, your excerpt was enough to send me running for the door.)

To paraphrase Robin Williams - Ballard is more in need of a blow job than any Mormon man alive.


Subject: Not so sexless, silent and passive (anatomical language)
Date: Dec 17 09:01
Author: Shhnephi

No wonder I didn't fit in! I wonder if Ballard's wife is really passive, or is she just passive/aggressive?

I just read part of the article. Here is his statement about why he thinks he knows all about women. "Perhaps being the father of our five daughters and now the grandfather of 22 granddaughters makes me an expert on the subject of women."

So he thinks having a penis to shoot sperm makes him an authority on women?


Subject: Yeah, the same way Hinkster
Date: Dec 17 16:42
Author: Jezebel

is expert enough to assert that the women are happy in his church. How utterly absurd! Those who are happy probably enjoy ignorant bliss anyway, but I don't even call that a life. GAGGG! My life is SOOOOO much richer now, after my morg experience. Thank Lawd I had the brains to leave in time.


Subject: I have a TBM friend..........
Date: Dec 17 17:51
Author: Mandy

.........who admits that she has problems with the church, but has no desire to give up her "place". She has no need of independence in thought or action. She doesn't mind having her husband make her decisions. She makes references to her ignorance, and to her, that ignorance is bliss. Ballard would be so happy with her!!!!!


Subject: Re: You tell 'im, Tak!
Date: Dec 17 17:47
Author: TAK

that's the most sexist thing I have heard in years!

"Our Women"

LDS Women can't or should not be sexy or sassy, or smart?


Subject: What an !(Don't read if you're offended by lots of cussing and F-Bombs)
Date: Dec 17 17:42
Author: Adrienne

Ballard, F*CK YOU!! I left the church because I am NOT property or some brood mare who has to remain barefoot and pregnant for eternity!! Now, when I said he is an asshole, I meant one who won't admit he's that way, much like my ex. WAKE THE f*ck UP!! THIS IS THE f*ckING 21st CENTURY!! I admit I like sex, but I'm a woman who is her own person. I DO NOT need a man to achieve "salvation" or to be happy. I prefer to work for a living, support myself, and if I don't get married, I am fine with that. Marriage is a way to control women, and I AM NOT PROPERTY, I'm a human being!! People like these assholes make me sick, and if I ever meet them, I'm giving them a kick right in the f*cking nuts!!


Subject: this quote confirms what i've always suspected. ballard can't get it up!
Date: Dec 17 17:47
Author: luckyman

why else would he be so terrified of "sexy, sassy, socially aggressive" women?? it's because they know what a weak, insignificant man he is.


Subject: That was a disgusting pile of drivel.
Date: Dec 17 18:08
Author: Dali

It took a lot of willpower not to puke on my keyboard.

My favorite part, and I paraphrase here, is where he gives the wonderful example of the inspired council of our living prophet to the youth...that of women only having one set of earrings. He admitted it has nothing to do with eternal spiritual welfare...it's about OBEDIENCE!

Follow the prophet, follow the prophet lalala He will never lead you astray!

What a joke.


Subject: Dumbfounded
Date: Dec 17 18:51
Author: whitecloud

That article is sick, sick, sick.
Just feel incredulous for the 60 millionth time that the mormon church is given respect and an easy time by the media. The media ought to be forced to read some of this drivel.
This is my favorite quote from the article

"In November 2000, President Hinckley spoke to youth in a Churchwide fireside (see “A Prophet’s Counsel and Prayer for Youth,” Liahona, April 2001, 30-41). Have you young adults studied his message and identified things you need to avoid or do differently? I know a 17-year-old who just prior to the prophet’s talk had pierced her ears a second time.

She came home from the fireside, took off the second set of earrings, and said to her parents, “If President Hinckley says we should wear only one set of earrings, that’s good enough for me.”"


Subject: That sounds like ME! LOL!
Date: Dec 17 21:35
Author: Gail

After leaving that cult and its horrible distortions of what being a woman are (I boil it down to a cooking uterus these days), I am pretty happy to be sassy, sexy, social and career oriented as opposed to passive aggressive, dressed in a jumper (ick) and apologetic that I am not married to a penishood holder and breeding like a rabbit.

I am Woman Hear me Roar! LOL!

Gail


Subject: So how do you ladies really feel?
Date: Dec 17 23:43
Author: FellowTraveller

Pardon me while I pick myself off the floor. All your comments are hysterical! (Oops. I just remembered the origins of the word "hysteria." Sorry.)

I think Ballard just described my ideal woman. If they're not in the Church, no wonder I left!
Subject: Am I too late to put in my 2 cents?
Date: Dec 17 23:54
Author: Strangerer

I read that pukey article and almost DIED laughing. What did he say, something like, "The Lord likes women to cheerfully put other's needs before her own" ROFL. Not only do you need to take the back seat, but ya better be smiling while you're back there. What do the TBM women feel when they read this?