|Subject:||Were any of you ever singled out at Sacrament meeting for public ridicule?|
|Date:||May 11 10:47|
|I suppose that this was the beginning of my apostasy
- for which I am truly thankful. Perhaps some of you may recall the 80's
era bumper stickers that stated "Visualize World Peace." Well,
I had the gall to actually place one of those on my vehicle. It had been
there for months and no one said a word to me - including my priesthood
holding, domineering, controlling, verbally and physically abusive
spouse. He apparently had received no divine revelation of my stupidity
on this topic.
One Sunday the topic of the sermon was my bumper sticker. Granted, I was not mentioned by name, but I was certainly the only person in the ward with that offensive article on her car. I can't recall precisely what was said, but it was pretty humiliating to me at the time and he threw in many scripture to point out my flagrantly anti-church thoughts as represented by the sticker. As soon as I could, I ran to the parking lot, holding back tears, and peeled it off.
Naturally, this was also an embarrassment to my loving and protective husband, who took advantage of yet another opportunity to chastise me when we got home.
The humiliation was certainly not what led me to flee the church, and I am ashamed to admit that the abuse from my spouse was not, either. When I look at the person I am now as compared to the meek little Molly wannabe I was then, I can't begin to reconcile that the two people can possible both be me!
It is inconceivable to me that I allowed myself to be treated so badly by so many men. shudder
Do any of the rest of you have similar experiences?
|Subject:||It kind of surprises me that LDS, Inc., hasn't learned more about customer satisfaction in all these years.|
|Date:||May 11 11:02|
|Sure, they've revised the temple ceremony a few
times and altered the Holy Underwear, but I was taught in my very first
job that, "The customer is always right."
Maybe they would be more competitive in the religious marketplace if they took a page out of the fast-food industry's book.
|Subject:||I had a wicked beard! (mild articulation)|
|Date:||May 11 12:28|
|When I was 18 I decided to grow a beard. After a
month or so it was looking pretty good. One sunday the bishop spoke on
conforming to church standards, not the worlds.
Finally he got to the topic of facial hair. As he was spouting off about the wickedness of facial hair and it's implications of non-conformity, he suddenly asked me to stand up. Out of shock and without thinking (a admired trait of Mormonism = not thinking), I stood up.
Looking straight at me (as was every one else) he told me to shave "that disgusting thing off". Stunned I just sat down. After a few more minutes of senseless haranguing by the "loving bishop" I rose to my feet so everyone would see me, stared at the bastard in a hard angry glare. It froze him for a few seconds, stopping him in mid sentence.
I should have said something, but I was extremely angry. I just walked down the pew, out the door as the entire congregation was stone silent. Really nothing I could have said would have been more pronounce than the silence I guess.
Several days later I received a call from the ward exec. sec. The bastard bishop wanted to speak with me. I just hung up and never went back. I had my name removed.
|Subject:||Re: I had a wicked beard! (mild articulation)|
|Date:||May 11 15:28|
|Wow! That was quite the awful experience. Good for you for standing-up to the idiots. It brought to mind something that happened a couple of months ago. The bishop, at the end of sacrament meeting, got up to talk about a special purpose to our fasting for the next fast Sunday in a couple of weeks. It was all about missionary work (though the topic matters little). He was waxing on about it all and then I realized he was going to actually ask everyone who would join with the bishopric in this special fast to stand up. I couldn't believe he would put folks on the spot like that but it is exactly what he did. Fortunately, we were sitting on the last row and so it wasn't so obvious when none of my family stood. I was a bit surprised that my wife didn't stand but, on further reflection, knew that it was more b/c she disagrees with putting people on the spot like that. Her VT companion, who is of like mind, didn't stand either.|
|Subject:||What is wrong with the sentiment|
|Date:||May 11 12:39|
|of visualizing world peace? Did they say something
like humans are powerless to make the world peaceful without the
intervention of Jesus, or something? I'd be interested in knowing what
My nevermo husband also stopped going to his church as a young man because his pastor betrayed a confidence in their church meeting. I guess it's not just the Mormons.
|Subject:||Re: What is wrong with the sentiment|
|Date:||May 11 12:52|
|I believe (it has been almost 2 decades) that it was
something to the effect of the visualization movement being a heretical
teaching that was expounded by the secular humanists. He said we all
needed to be on guard against untrue teachings and thoughts which were
insidious in that they seemed harmless but promoted false values. I
distinctly recall that he stressed that those who had true and strong
testimonies had no need for bumper stickers and to look outside the
church for movements to support. He stressed that the person who had
that on her vehicle (he knew darned good and well it was mine) clearly
was not supporting her husband and family and needed to fast and to pray
to get a true revelation so she could fulfill her duties as a good wife
and spiritual leader in the home.
Just thinking about such patriarchal bs makes me ill - but I surely took it to heart at the time and felt I was inferior and unworthy. s i g h
|Subject:||That is so nuts! I think someone had a hair up their... for no reason! n/t|
|Date:||May 11 19:39|
|Subject:||This happened to a friend of mine who had a baby for another LDS couple.|
|Date:||May 11 19:46|
|A lady in our ward had a problem with that, even though the baby was adopted and sealed to another LDS couple with the church's permission. This disapproving lady got up in F & T meeting and instead of bearing a testimony began ranting about how "evil" and wrong my friend was. The bishop had to drag her away from the pulpit!|
|Subject:||Re: Were any of you ever singled out at Sacrament meeting for public ridicule?|
|Date:||May 11 12:45|
|ONLY the one time I did it to myself! I finally accepted the request to give the prayer at Sac. Reluctantly I went up and launched into public prayer (not my strong suit) and of course gave a very good mixed Catholic and Protestant prayer. Dead Silence met my Amen!!! I didn't realize for a little bit what I had done. But guess what? They NEVER, EVER asked me to do it again! LOL!|
|Date:||May 11 13:10|
|That is pricelessly hilarious!|
|Date:||May 11 13:15|
> That is pricelessly hilarious!
Afterwards, I thought what the hell did they expect given my Lutheran/Catholic background! LOL! I HATE giving public prayers (when I am the one leading it) and avoid it whenever possible. I have trouble even offering "Grace" at the dinner table. I was always taught that personal prayer should be private. I don't have any problem with the responses at Mass however.
|Subject:||Re: Were any of you ever singled out at Sacrament meeting for public ridicule?|
|Date:||May 11 13:25|
|On one F&T Sunday a woman appeared at the podium
to bear her testimony, and no one seemed to recognize her. Her testimony
began with something like, 'The bishop has asked me to bear my testimony
here today...' Then she launched into a tearful account of how she had
been inactive for ten years, and this was her first day back in church.
(Her husband had died only a few weeks previously, and she was clearly
still in shock.) She talked about how their marriage had never been
sealed in a temple, and now that the husband was gone she desperately
wanted this to be done. She blubbered on about confessing to the bishop
that she smoked, drank, swore, and did 'other evil things'
(unspecified). She weighed about 400 lbs and was very sloppily dressed.
She pointed out the bishop had told her to lose weight and dress better,
and to start paying her tithing with the money she would save on food
whilst losing weight!!! If she did all these things, reporting to the
bishop weekly, she said, the bishop told her he would consider giving
her back a temple recommend.
This was one of the most appalling public displays I've ever witnessed. The bishop sat there, smiling and nodding through it all. I was aghast. This woman was in the throes of grief, so the church got to her in a weak moment, I suppose. Don't recall seeing her in church after that.
|Subject:||Not quite, but something similar at BYU|
|Date:||May 11 13:30|
|I was in one of those awful wards where the bishop
used to kill any extra time after the planned speakers had finished
their talks by calling on people randomly from the congregation
to bear testimonies, sing songs, etc. It was a ghastly experience and it
happened a lot. I finally started to just get up and leave the meetings
at that point. I wouldn't even bother going to Sunday School or
Priesthood after that.
|Subject:||Once, by my home teacher|
|Date:||May 11 13:46|
|The home teacher came by my house one afternoon with
a message about pro-life political activism. He had one of the young men
with him as his companion, so he was trying to demonstrate the
importance of his political agenda. I explained to him that I did not
believe in abortion, but I thought the choice should be left up to the
mother, so I guess that makes me pro-choice. I was completely serious,
and I wouldn't back off from my position. He argued with me about it,
but I knew my position well, kept it succinct, and wouldn't engage him
in an argument in my own home. My home teacher was pissed! I didn't
care, though. I felt like he had a right to his opinion and I had a
right to mine.
A few months later he and his family moved from the ward, and during his farewell speech, this guy completely took me apart from the pulpit. He didn't mention me by name, but he said "there are people even in this room who support abortion" which I do not, and went on and on about what he thought of me, making several personal attacks. He was red-faced angry and staring right at me as he spoke. I pretended like I wasn't paying attention and read from my scriptures during his talk. After the meeting, I thought he was going to hit me.
|Subject:||Good grief, Mak!|
|Date:||May 11 14:27|
|I'm surprised you ever went back to church!|
|Subject:||He moved away, so it was safe|
|Date:||May 11 15:18|
|Besides, that guy wasn't the first jerk I ever met in the Church.|
|Subject:||My own dad, the 1st Couselor in the SP, burned me in Stake Conference.|
|Date:||May 11 14:17|
|My brother was 19 and for a year refused to go on a
mission. Then the draft came up and suddenly he had a desire to go with
a low lottery number of 11. (It was about 1972 or so and I was
For a whole year, our family household was tense and my parents were so disappointed because their son would not go on a mission. Every family meal was an argument about the war and going on a mission. I took my brother's side and said he should not be forced to go. One night the argument was so bad that I ran outside and locked myself in the car and cried.
When my brother did decide to go on a mission, my dad stood up in Stake Conference and told how I did not understand the purpose of the mission and bringing the people to the Gospel. He told the story about me locking myself in the car and crying. It was embarrassing.
|Subject:||I haven't Susanna...|
|Date:||May 11 14:24|
|But I'm sorry that you did. :( How utterly awful of
that person to single you out...and so Christ-like, too. What the hell
is wrong with visualizing world peace?! How is that against the
teachings of the church?!!! Shame on them.
Good for you for getting away from your abusive spouse. I, too, am amazed at the person I am today when I compare where I was as a Mormon. I totally share your gratitude for having been able to escape. :)
|Subject:||Re: Were any of you ever singled out at Sacrament meeting for public ridicule?|
|Date:||May 11 14:36|
|Not in sacrament meeting, but I had a pretty good
time at a zone conference on my mission. I was assigned to talk on
baptism, or something like that. Anyway, I decided to focus on what I
saw as a need to do more about retaining converts. So I started my talk
by saying "I think sometimes we focus too much on baptism..."
(Now, I should stop and explain that my real intent here was to honestly try to get my fellow missionaries to do more to help with retention. In my mind all we ever heard about from the mission leadership was "baptize, baptize, baptize." They really didn't seem to care too much what happened after that, but I did. At the time I was a recent convert of only a few years, so this was a subject near and dear to my heart.)
Well, you can pretty much guess what happened next. The mission pres. shot right up out of his seat behind me on the stand and reaffirmed, for the entire 2 zones that "yes we are here to baptize as our primary mission."
I don't remember much of what I said after sat down, only that I stumbled through some scriptures, and just generally tried to make it seem like I wasn't a hell-bound sinner! I didn't even end the talk with the standard "inthenameofjesuschristamen."
No sooner had I returned to my seat then the AP went up to the podium, looked directly at me (sitting in the center aisle ) and said, "if you don't want to be here, GO HOME!!!" He then proceeded to tell the zones what a horrible missionary and generally all around bad person I was. Had it not been for a very good friend who was sitting next to me, I would have stood up and responded "F*&K You!"
After he sat down the mood of the meeting pretty much went south! My companion and I, along with our 2 roommates, left the zone conference right after lunch. Didn't stay for the hour long BS session of "testimonies" that always ended zone conferences. Man, I can only imagine what those testimonies were like that day!
Right up until the end of my mission (about 9 months after this "day of infamy") I wouldn't talk to, or even be in the same room, as that ass of an AP.
In the end I wound up telling him about 1 month before I went home that I "didn't hate him anymore." I think this floored him because he kind of broke down and began to apologize. That was possibly the best day of my mission because I let go of all that anger!
I don't think I'll ever forget that day as long as I live! Needless to say one good thing did come out of it, I was NEVER asked to speak at any type of missionary meeting every again!
|Subject:||I am rapidly becoming glad that I was exed|
|Date:||May 11 15:03|
|OUCH - there are so many painful stories - I can't
imagine my father publicly humiliating me! Are we all not truly blessed
to be free of the morg?
I was pretty upset earlier in the week to find out that my name was not removed but that I was exed when I asked to have name removal. I am rapidly coming to the new feeling that I am honored to have been exed for speaking out against such an evil organization.
|Subject:||"Correction", not ridicule...|
|Date:||May 11 15:34|
|...I was really into comic books, fantasy, and
science fiction as a teenager. Once when I was asked to give a talk in
Sacrament Meeting I spoke about these interests, and how great the Book
of Mormon and church history were because they shared many of the
same fantastic elements, but were "real".
At the end of my talk the bishop got up and placed an avuncular hand on my shoulder and leaned over to the microphone, and said that he wanted to make it clear to any visitors that we didn't believe that the Book of Mormon was in the same class with the Lord of the Rings.
How right he was...
|Subject:||I did that once too!!|
|Date:||May 11 19:57|
|I said in a testimony meeting once as a teenager
that the Book of Mormon appealed to me in the same way that Lord of the
Rings and other scifi and fantasy books did, and that I thought my
literary interest had brought me to enjoy the Book of Mormon that much
more as an epic book. *gag* I wasn't "corrected" later for
having said that, but there were some glassy stares.
Oh, I once quoted Douglas Adams in a Sacrament Meeting talk and wove it in pretty well to my topic. I got a nice compliment by the High Councilman who spoke after me. :-)
|Subject:||I use to quote Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, and Plato in Sunday School classes|
|Date:||May 11 22:57|
|My bishop was NOT amused, but I always had a full class!|
|Subject:||The last ward I was in had a boundary problem (cussing moderately)|
|Date:||May 11 22:02|
|I went to talk to the bishop (silly me: I thought it
was privileged communication) when I gave the Morg one last chance. The
Assclown had the balls to stand up in Ward conference and tell my story
that I thought was between me, this fellow and God without asking my
permission. I kind of was taken aback and realized a short time later
how wrong his actions were in this case. I was utterly disgusted with
the man's lack of ability to keep a confidence. Thank you to Bishop
Assclown for putting a final nail in the coffin of my dying testimony. A
couple weeks later (I promised a friend I would give the Morg a month),
I stopped attending. A couple months later, I used the garmies residing
in the trunk of my car as oil rags then dumped the bag of garmies.
|Date:||May 11 22:26|
|your bishop was a huge Ass Clown. I've never heard of a bishop doing that, that really sucks.|
|Subject:||You are obviously quite long-suffering...|
|Date:||May 11 22:47|
|Ahhh, the joys of a non-professional clergy. Ain't it grand?|
|Subject:||LOL! Thanks guys!|
|Date:||May 11 23:24|
|The interesting thing is that I learned a huge
lesson about the importance of boundaries. I felt mentally abused
afterwards and dealt with this in therapy later on. Every minister or
other professional clergy member I have encountered honestly does not
want or need the personal information LDS bishops demand. And the guy
was the epitome of Ass Clown. He just stood up and said what he wanted
to (as an example using all but my name) so he could keep the sheep
|Subject:||Elder "Burn-hard" P. Brockbank was notorious for flaming people in public meetings.|
|Date:||May 11 22:15|
|He would purposely single missionaries out and ask,
"How many baptisms did you do this month?" The missionary
would give an honest answer and he would attack it for being not enough
in front of all the missionaries in zone conference.
Then he came to my singles ward and made a young man stand up and come forward. He put his arm around him and asked, "How old are you?" When the young man answered "Twenty-eight," Burn-hard went on to chastise him publicly for not getting on the ball and being married. The poor guy looked so humiliated.
These are just two examples, but Burn-hard Brockbank did it every meeting he conducted. This is why I call him the most abusive GA that I have met and I personally knew.
BTW, he was put on emeritus status as a GA and I wonder if it was because he was so harsh. He is now dead and not a very well know GA, but he was actively going around being mean in meetings during the 1970s. I think it was a way of making an example of people to put pressure on the group.
|Subject:||Luckily for me,|
|Date:||May 11 22:23|
|no. I can't believe someone made a big deal about
the bumper sticker!!!! Doesn't everyone wish for world peace?
I can't understand that it could be anything bad.
Aren't you glad you're out!!!
|Subject:||When SP spoke about the sexual activities of a couple in the ward|
|Date:||May 11 22:34|
Our rambling SP stood up in front of a ward conference and spoke intimately about a widowed young wife with two children. Now this young woman (then about 30) lost a husband at 23 from cancer, but had remarried and then had three children with her second husband (a good, long-suffering, kind and generous man). He stated, without prompting, that the second husband was going to have his three kids with her sealed to her first husband because she was only sealed to the first husband. (A public case of second-place Charlie) Appalling.
Furthermore, this SP, went on about to remind people how tall and handsome her first husband was, (her second is not so tall) and how the first husband's sons look so much like their bio dad, and that they must take after him because these two sons are such a good athletes, too. He made some referrence to a woman giving birth early in life would have stronger children, especially boys! Tactless and cruel.
Now, to the defense of the second husband. He wasn't glamourous like the first husband, nor as tall, but he was utterly devoted to her and worked two jobs to pay bills. (I was his HT Comp. with him for 3 years and very much enjoyed his company and knew of the love he had for his wife)
Anyways, this second husband was in the hall with the youngest baby when he began to hear all this stuff. He popped in and called to the SP to cease. The SP either did not hear nor did not want to hear, but continued. This second husband walked out the door and saw me with my youngest at the back of the chapel. I then followed out to the parking lot and was able to do little to console.
This guy was utterly hurt. He kept asking why the SP would publicly do this as he liked him. (The SP had actually baptized him about 8 years earlier)
When I returned into the chapel I found the SP talking about how the second husband choice to NOT serve a mission (he was baptized at 22) was a contributing factor to his current financial struggles.
I was floored. This SP had been the officator to my own wedding, and has been my Bishop for five years before that. I knew of no animosity between this SP and the second husband, but my parents (also there that day) were quite startled, but wrote it off as 'inspiration' that it must have been something the Lord wanted the SP to tell the people.
I attended my parents' ward a few weeks back (mostly to see old friends) and this same SP has just returned from a senior mission with his wife. His talk, in light of how a feel now as an exmo, was utterly tactless. He spoke about how ignorant the nation was that they visited, and made up a terrible story about how a young girl lies to her mom about a new (bad) boyfriend, and then dies in a car accident. God's justice.
It only confirmed that if this is church leadership, I am better off out.
|Subject:||I wasn't in long enough(cussing)|
|Date:||May 11 22:35|
|The closest thing I felt to this was when Bishop Assclown got his garmies in a wad about my sleeveless white dress for the baptisim. That still annoys me of having to wear that stupid jumpsuit. Since my ex was a penishood holder, despite the fact that he was emotionally abusive, they would have taken his side over someone who wasn't living up to the Molly Mormon standard. I think that if I had gone back after filing for divorce, they would have said something to me publicly.|
|Subject:||LOL! A new title is created today (cussing mildly)|
|Date:||May 11 23:27|
|Cricket take heed please! Bishop AssClown for the
truly stupid, intrusive and malicious Bishoprick members!
|Subject:||When I was 8 - right after my confirmation...|
|Date:||May 12 00:00|
|I sat back down with my family. After awhile my
cousin and I started braiding each others' hair. Some man who was
speaking at the podium (bishop maybe?) said "It's sher spirichuhl
to see all these kids becoming members of the church. Too bad not all of
them are being reverent and listening to the spirit right now!" and
glowered at me. My mom was mortified and hissed at us to stop.
God forbid two children should be allowed to quietly entertain themselves during that painfully boring meeting.
|Subject:||Yes, this happened to me too|
|Date:||May 12 01:19|
|The Elders Quorum President was the world's biggest
assclown (LOL!)....he made several comments in a sacrament meeting talk
that everyone knew were about me. He never mentioned my name of course,
but it was painfully obvious who he was talking about. I had been
assigned to speak before him in sacrament meeting two or three weeks
previous. The meeting ran late, and when I got up to give my talk the
time was almost up. I condensed my talk, but he ended up only having
about 1 minute. So they asked him to come back and give the talk a
couple weeks later. So he went on and on about how I had taken all the
time up, and he had to come back. I was so embarrassed, and he went on
Of course, the mother's day torture when you have no children is also classic. When you are the only infertile woman in the ward, and everyone else is popping out babies at a rate of one per year, then you know the comments regarding infertility are for you. One Mother's day the person giving the talk spent about 5 minutes on the topic, and how I could be a mother figure to a niece or friend, looking right at me. I never went on mother's day again.
|Subject:||Yep. I was referred to as a "tool of Satan" .....|
|Date:||May 12 12:15|
|The bishop didn't mention me by name (or the other person he lumped in with that classification), but I knew he was talking about me because we had had a heated argument just before sacrament meeting about an administrative decision of his. I didn't back down from my position, so he took the opportunity at testimony meeting to let everyone know about my Satanic influence. I found it rather humorous, really, because it only confirmed what a nut the guy was.|