|Subject:||TBM [Mormon] spouse here...|
|Date:||Dec 12 15:52 2003|
|#24, that was the number we were given when we were
married in the Salt Lake Temple over 15 years ago. In my wildest dreams
did I think I would be posting on an exmormon board, but that's life. My
spouse told me about 1 year ago that he did not believe in the LDS
church anymore. I know he felt lost after having spent his entire life
in the church, and frankly, I felt lost for the first time too. I am
writing this not to criticize, but to let you know the other side of the
coin and I will not try to defend the faith, as the top of this screen
My spouse can't wait to get home from work and jump on this board. I'm sure he learned a lot of what to tell me and how to 'handle me' from many of you. I suppose he got the best advise he could, after all, we're still together. I'm sure he will freak out when he comes home and reads this post, although I doubt he will recognize it was from me, so honey, don't worry, I won't stop you from being here, but do not jump for joy, I am not leaving the church anytime soon (see, I have a touch of good humor).
It has not been easy to watch the man I fell in love with and decided to spend eternities with lose faith in the church, stop attending, give up wearing garments and basically give his entire church life up. Now, on the upside, he has focused his time and attention to me, our children and our home. He was a good guy before and is still an amazing man. I know he has made great efforts to show me he has changed for the better and I'm glad he has done so.
I just want to mention to you all that it is not easy to sit in Sacrament meeting and seeing moms/dads/children sitting together. Some of our children have decided that if dad is not going to church, neither are they and I've allowed this to happen, but many times I have to get up and leave church crying because I don't have what others have. It is not easy to sit and listen and watch all the supposed perfection and the bishop and leaders continuously asking if everything is alright, and is there something they can do for me. I feel like a church widow. It is not easy to see other fathers baptizing, blessing their children because I know he will not do it. IT HURTS, but I have to deal with it and that's that. He has decided what will be his life and I have decided what will mine be. We both respect each other and make the best of it.
But I do want to make sure you all give credit to all of us TBM spouses (sure get a kick out of that one!) who decide to work things out and make the best of it. So what if he changed his mind half-way to the celestial kingdom, I know I'm not giving him up that easy and there will be hell to pay if someone decides to change my hubby when we get there. You hear that! I'm not letting you go in this life and I will not do it in the next one! I'm not sure the point I am trying to make here, but please be considerate of your TBM spouses,
|Subject:||He should attend with you|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:02|
|My wife is a semi/TBM Spouse, I no longer believe
but I still attend with my wife because I feel incredibly selfish
letting her deal with the responsibilities of church all by herself. She
believes the children should attend for now and until she feels
comfortable pulling out, I help her. We had the kids together and we
raise them together.
He needs to attend, it only puts undue pressure on you, which is unfair.
Believe me, I don't like attending at all but it is a small price to pay.
Are you in Utah?
|Subject:||I forgot to mention that|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:05|
|You sound like a great wife.
|Subject:||Relax and know|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:03|
|that if God is all knowing, all seeing and all
powerful, he already knew your husband was going to do this. AND he knew
you'd stand by him. So don't let the pressure get to you, if it does, we
can help you out...
|Subject:||This must be an incredibly difficult|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:05|
|and painful experience for all of you. I can only
imagine, really, as I left the church as a teen and married a never-mo.
But for all the difficulty, I think you should get a round of righteous props here for keeping your family in tact, in spite of the difficulties. It sounds as though you and your husband have chosen to respect eachothers beliefs and I think that is the best possible outcome.
I'm glad you are here. We have a few regular posters here who started out as the abandoned TBM spouses and they always provide a unique and necessary perspective. So, again, welcome.
I hope your church-going experiences get easier over time. I just want to re-iterate, though, that no matter how difficult or bad it gets, I honestly believe you have made the right decision in staying together. We see so much marital carnage on this board and it's just refreshing when someone shows up who has chosen their marriage over their religion.
|Date:||Dec 12 16:06|
|My TBM wife has shown similar feelings about
attending sacrament meeting alone. It is always important to realize
that we are dealing with human beings. I appreciate your comments and
the strength of love you have for your husband. I wish all TBM spouses
had that same unconditional love that you speak of.
|Subject:||Re: Thanks #24|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:12|
|Author:||Wanting another opinion....|
|I think all of your advice is great! I just wanted
to ask, if you were a TBM spouse, and your ex-mo spouse decided they
found faith in another, say, the Catholic Church, would the TBM spouse
go with them to mass for support? I think not.
I can imagine the incredible difficulty of sitting through a meeting alone, surrounded by others with their families. While taking into account how painful it is for the TBM spouse, is any thought given to how uncomfortable the service makes the ex-mo?
Is there really a right answer to this seemingly no-win situation?
|Subject:||The answer is you suck it up|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:19|
|and do what is best for the family. I can't stand
going but my has enough on her plate without having to worry about me
being uncomfortable for three hours a week. I go, I help with the kids,
and I work with her on learning the truth. I believe it is the easiest
way to make the transition and I don't feel selfish in the process.
|Subject:||The answer is a situational thing|
|Date:||Dec 12 17:23|
|Author:||I am Someone|
|I stayed with my spouse in church each week until
she studied her way out and we left together. But I totally respect that
there are those who do not attend because they do not want to send the
message to their kids that the church is valid and has authority.
"playing along" could end up equaling brainwashing your kids
into a life of servitude, wasted on a lying church.
|Subject:||That's a good point, my mom is a TBM spouse and my dad is an ExMo who's now very serious about his new church|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:29|
|He's in the lay leadership of the Presbyterian
church in my parents' neighborhood and, if anything, I think his
religion is much more important to him than Mormonism is to my mom.
(Don't get me wrong, my mom is a serious 6th-generation Mormon who now
attends LDS church by herself each week.)
Anyway, he's very enthusiastic about his church, but hasn't had much support from his 3 X-MO atheist kids, his 1 TBM kid or his 1 lapsed Mormon kid.
* * *
By the way, #24, I think this is a great post. My personal feelings toward Mormonism have been evolving a lot in the past year. There are obviously some wonderful TBM people out there.
I tend to read venomous and obnoxious lies that come out of FARMS and other similarly preposterous apologetic histories and I have sometimes let that stain my impression of believing Mormons as a group.
I still have no use for the corporate hierarchy of the Utah church, but I do now have more appreciation for my Mormon sub-ethnicity/sub-cultural heritage.
|Subject:||Re: TBM spouse here...|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:18|
|The more you maintain this respect and decency for
your husband and his beliefs, the more you will likely realize that it
doesn't matter whether or not he is in church with you. When that day
comes, you will also suddenly discover that you really love him more
than you thought you did. It's like an epiphany.
Since you believe Mormon tenets, here's one that should give you comfort. Joseph Smith once said that he would descend to the depths of hell if necessary to recover his wife, Emma in the next life. He was sealed to her and he would NOT ever let her go. You seem to feel the same way about your husband. Considering various teachings of the church, I doubt that you'd lose him in the next life anyway. Once sealed, always sealed and all that. As a TBM, I never did believe that if my wife sinned I would lose her because I believed that the sealing was more powerful than that.
At least your man is an honest man. For that, you can be very grateful. Better to have an honest man in your home than a man who fakes his beliefs for you. I doubt you really want that. However, I do understand the sense of "bait and switch" that you must be feeling. You didn't marry with this in mind and you're "losing" that which you thought you had. Very understandable. Remember, though, people ALWAYS change and grow over time and we have to adapt in many ways to those changes in our lives. If he hadn't left the church, it would have been something else which would have been a stressor to your marriage. It's inevitable.
Well, I hope you find the comfort you seek. You have come a long way to realizing a lot of things that many spouses never learn. First and foremost is that your love for him and his love for you will conquer all obstacles. Count on it. It's true.
Best wishes and keep us posted.
|Subject:||Re: TBM spouse here...|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:19|
|Very thoughtful, I am like your husband, married to
a TBM wife who I took through the temple 15 years ago in Portland Or.
Its not her fault the church is not true, but its not my fault that I
figured it out. I honestly believe this is what God wants me to know and
I am still a great person just like most exmos on this board.
The question I have for my and all TBM spouses, especially wives, is if you are to be at your husbands side as commanded, what do you think God thinks of you for not taking the man you love and committed to more seriously? You believe Adam partook of the fruit to be with eve but you won't return that gesture. I think God is unimpressed with the level of commitment and "real intent" to know, discover and follow truth. Look at it this way, you want to know the truth, right? And you would act on it, as taught in church, with real intent, right? So when you get a 100% confirmation that the church is not true, that some of the points made on this board or are easily available for anyone who will look, are what God want's you to know and do, what is a TBM man and God supposed to think of a wife whose only defense is "I don't have to follow you in unrighteousness". The God I know is not going to like the truth being called unrighteous, and he isn't going to think a whole lot for the person who refused to consider the facts and accept the truth when he made it as easy as listening to your spouse.
That being said, until you arrive and all it takes is listening and considering, then I agree he should also respect your beliefs and support you. But that will not change the fact that what TBM's believe is done in faith (totally) only because the HARD FACTS can disprove it totally and all it takes is enough care to know the truth, and to listen and learn. TBM's study Mormonism for years but refuse to lend 24 hours of serious thought to allow themselves to learn the truth. My wife included.
Its a tough road, but I love the conviction you have to your husband... you are a good wife and I respect your dilemna, hopefully I gave you something to think about. Actually, I wish you were my wife posting to the board, that took a lot of guts and hopefully wisdom.... time will tell on that.
|Subject:||Re: TBM spouse here...|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:30|
|I appreciated your comments. I separated from my TBM
wife when I left the church and, in later conversations, she expressed
many of the same feelings. Having grown up in the church the child of
divorced parents (exed dad), I always empathized with the
"disenfranchised" -- or those who did not have the perfect
family. Looking back now, I feel the experience, while painful, enabled
me to be more inclusive, more caring, and more understanding and
sensitive to those in similar situations. Just an observation.
|Subject:||a wonderful post|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:23|
|Truly you are an exception to many of the marital
situations we read here. So many TBM spouses choose the church over
their spouse and both parties have the kids wedged in between. If you
are in UT there is a wonderful support group for couples who have mixed
marriages so to speak.
I wanted to mention a bit of cheap advice. I believe it would be very helpful for you to feel that you have some input in your childrens well being. It might be nice if you continue many of the GOOD mormon traditions such as family home evening ( without the cheesy lesson just good family time) and well you know nice things like that.
I feel a lot of sympathy for you regarding attending church because the other members can be somewhat thoughtless. I was a TBM spouse for a while and I remember all of the sympathy and questions I got. I also remember a lot of harsh judgment that came my way.
I know that the church can give great meaning to some people. For others it ends up being something unbearable to stay in. I think you are incredibly genuine for posting what you did. I wish more couples could work out some kind of compromise.
|Subject:||Re: TBM spouse here...|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:24|
|Well said #24.
I'm an apostate married to a TBM. I choose to go with her every week, although I hate it. It has been pretty hard on me, but I don't want her sitting there alone.
I think I would be much more inclined and even enjoy going if church weren't such a witch hunt. Many talks in my ward revolve around "holding to the rod", and my wife gives me an annoying squeeze of the knee when she hears something she finds profound.
It has also been hard on my family in another way. My wife continues to believe that I will come back to the fold and be able to be the honorable priesthood holder of the house. Despite 6 years of apostacy, and getting married to her as an apostate, I cannot get it through her head that I am not going to be blessing our kids in this lifetime. This has been the subject of much contention in my house.
As for you going to church alone... Many women go to church alone while their spouse stays at home. I would not go to church if I did not believe that there was a bit of eyebrow raising from the other members about the missing husband. I don't want my wife to go through that scrutiny, I have already put her through enough. But, I am blaming that scrutiny on the busy-bodies that attend every ward I've ever been to. It seems that other religions are just happy you're there, where the LDS religion, especially in UT is just happy to gossip about your sins.
|Subject:||Thank you for posting.|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:29|
|I hope this is not the last post that we see from
you as I do believe that it is important for people to remember what it is
like for the other person. It will also allow everyone who wants to see
these families stay together regardless of the spouses spiritual choice
be better able to help people like your husband.
|Subject:||I have to say...|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:38|
|... that having left the church long before I
married a nevermo, I am getting much needed insight on what it is like
for those of you who are leaving/have left the church while in a
In must be that much harder for you, and for your spouses, as is so eloquently stated by #24. I have certainly gone through my own trials and tribulations in life, but leaving mormonism after finding out about the lies wasn't that hard, as I was only responsible for myself.
You are all to be commended.
|Subject:||Honey, is that YOU?|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:38|
|no, no, we weren't married in the Salt Lake Temple,
but you sound like my wife in many ways. If your husband is as great as
you make him sound, he probably is painfully aware of how difficult it
has been on you.
When you say "I know he has made great efforts to show me he has changed for the better and I'm glad he has done so" I take that to mean that he is making a conscious effort to be "considerate" of you.
I, too, refused to baptize my oldest child not long ago and it was NOT easy for me or my wife. But to do otherwise would have been, in my mind, hypocritical. Going along with something that is, in my mind, undeniably false, is not right. I sympathize with your feelings, just as I sympathize with my wife's feelings, too.
It's not easy for anyone involved...
|Subject:||as a nevermo reading the marriage problems here|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:39|
|I can understand why the TBM spouse gets upset. Her
whole "salvation" is based on her husband as the
priesthoodholder. Other religions, it doesn't matter if you are married
or your husband believes. Now as a TBM wife, your whole belief system
and salvation is in jeopardy. And in other religions there isn;t as much
emphasis on families attending, and it is always more female than male
in my church. When my husband regularly worked on Sundays, I never felt
awkward going by myself with the kids, and even if he didn't belive, I
still would feel awkward because my status as a wife, good person, etc.
is not based on his belief.
|Subject:||One Of Our Own Posted Similar Thoughts Not Long Ago . . .|
|Date:||Dec 12 16:55|
|You might try a search to find it; it was Socrates,
although I'm not sure it was a registered post (you might try a seach on
"spouse" as well) . . .
I know S and his wife and consider them good friends, and I've heard a little of what he went through while she was a TBM . .. also you might read Doug's post just yesterday about "Mormon Bashing" . . . from the hundreds of exmos I've met, many in person, most of us resent the "anti-Mormon" jacket shoved on us since we bear no ill will toward Mormons. Instead we found ourselves increasingly at odds with the validity of church doctrine and its history as well as the lifestyle that was foisted upon us. Resolving that dilemma was what led us to search the information available on this board and elsewhere on the Internet.
I read in your post a lot feelings of betrayal and anger and a thoroughly understandable desirable to lash out at the perceived perpetrators of that betrayal. I also think this is a fairly obvious cry for help and expresses a need for validation of your feelings. I'll go so far as to offer that validation and also add regrets on behalf of the entire exmormon/post-mormon movement for the pain you've experienced. I don't think I'm being any kind of condescending meglomaniac in doing so, either; I fully expect my sentiments to be echoed by others here. So long as you don't toss defenses of the LDS faith at us (we already know that faith as well any believers), you'll get no grief from us, only understanding.
As you are, we once were . . .
Okay, that's a pretty blasphemous twist on things (well, except that now we're told they're not sure they really teach that), but we honestly do care.
And I will extend an invitation to you to investigate what is being presented here and elsewhere on this site. I'd suggest you stay away from the venom right now, just look at the suggestions of the improbability of, nay the impossibility of Lehi's voyage, the absolute lack of any archaeological evidence in the New World of any Book of Mormon events, the DNA evidence that entirely disproves the notion that the American Indian had Hebrew ancestors, and perhaps the view of modern Egyptologists on Joseph Smith's translation of The Book of Abraham.
In short, I'm inviting you to think the unthinkable, knowing it must necessarily be a slow and possibly hellish process. From your point of view, I probably look like Satan himself and I'm trying to seduce you into walking right into the inferno, but I promise you I'm standing on solid ground in a world that makes a lot more sense to me than the one I was taught about in Sunday School.
And I also promise if you undertake that journey, you won't have to walk it alone. We will be here to support you.
|Date:||Dec 12 17:21|
|...not all TBM spouses are as understanding, or as
wise as you are. Many put the LDS church ahead of their spouse. Put
yourself in the position of your husband, who has come to realize that
"the emperor has no clothes." He's lucky that he has a wife
like you. Many on this board do not. Their wives have abandoned them, or
given them ultimatums to return to the fold, "or else."
I commend you for your love for your husband. He's a lucky man. I'm a lucky man too, but for different reasons.
Now, may I suggest that you check out some of the reasons why your husband decided to walk away from the church? You might be surprised.
|Subject:||My wonderful TBM wife|
|Date:||Dec 12 17:29|
|Author:||Romans house go|
|continues to attend and participate without me. I
took the decision to abstain, in part, because I want her to know that I
do not support the church or its beliefs. It's hard for both of us. We
would both rather be together. Instead of attending, I usually clean
house and prepare wonderful meals to serve to my family upon their
The message I send is not meant for her, but for our children. They are not lulled into thinking that attendance = complicity and activity. They know that I am not simply inactive; I'm actively working to keep and/or bring them OUT of the clutches of Mormonism.
|Subject:||I completely respect my wife. I just wish that she would...|
|Date:||Dec 12 17:32|
|...actually assess the doubts that she's expressed,
instead of repressing them.
If you're making it work, more power to you, and best of luck. :)
|Subject:||It sounds like you have something better...|
|Date:||Dec 12 17:41|
|It sounds like you have something better than many
so-called "perfect" Mormon marriages have:
"We both respect each other and make the best of it."
I've seen many marriages where this happens (one partner loses faith) and fear and manipulation becomes the motivating tools.
#24 said: "So what if he changed his mind half-way to the celestial kingdom, I know I'm not giving him up that easy..."
John Corrill: Who knows, #24, you might discover your husband is on a path that leads to a better place.
Try not to see him as "flawed", "deceived" or in need of "fixing"
|Subject:||beautiful and inspiring|
|Date:||Dec 12 17:41|
|It's wonderful to see an example of a couple where
both sides are committed to putting the family first despite the
difficulties. There are so many sad stories on this board of religious
differences breaking up families.
Of course the people with the most problems are likely to post here the most often for support, so we are probably getting a bit of a skewed picture. There are undoubtedly many TBM spouses like you out there who are willing to make the effort and sacrifices necessary because their families are worth it. My own parents are in a similar situation: Dad left the church long ago, but Mom maybe never will. And our family is still going strong...
|Subject:||This reminds me of the GML/Rabbit saga!!|
|Date:||Dec 12 17:58|
My wife and I were also married in the SLC temple, approx. 10 years ago. Nothing has been more difficult in life than facing up to the untruthfulness of the church. For me it happened suddenly in April 2000 and I tried for nearly a year to study everything I could find and do everything I could do to restore my testimony. It wasn't easy walking away and that's why it took 2 more years to actually stop going. When I suddenly no longer had a testimony I was a young LDS High Priest in my late 20s and serving in a Bishopric. I was well-respected by my whole extended family and members of my Ward/Stake. But I knew beyond reasonable doubt that I could never believe again. Oftentimes I've wished I could forget the things I've learned. But there is no way to unlearn historical truths that are unmistakably true and even more importantly it's impossible to believe anything to be true that is so obviously fictional.
Best wishes to you and your marriage. I really hope you guys make it. It's not easy. But you'll be stronger and get more out of life and your relationship as you both are respectful and charitable to each other.
However why should you listen to me? I'm now considered a spiritual weakling by my extended family despite all the fasting/praying and scripture studying and temple-attending I did once my testimony was hast-la-vista. They know the church is true. I don't and therefore my opinion on any matter doesn't matter because they are way ahead of me in life. Well at least that's how they see it.
|Date:||Dec 12 17:59|
|Why don‘t you propose a compromise? You say
you’ll do what he wants to do on every other Sunday if he attends with
you on the others.
Maybe there should be some give on both sides. He probably needs some support too.
|Subject:||You are proof|
|Date:||Dec 12 18:13|
|That whatever good comes from religions, mormonism
or any sect or belief comes from its members, its people, its adherents.
What would any religion be without a human to internalize the best of its teachings and be the conduit for its expression in the human scene? The living essence of any religion are its members and whether you can believe it, those qualities of love, compassion, kindness, charity, etc... are within you and have always been within you seeking conscious acknowledgement only for their expression.
The great sadness to me is that we do not take responsibility for our acts of love, gratitude, charity as our own but give them to an external entity as if it had created them for us from thin air. There is no power outside of you greater than what you already have within you.
Like you, my wife married an RM, a temple marriage, priesthood combo package that she now will now never have. Giving it to her would be my own spiritual death and while I love her, giving my life to spiritual servitude is even too much for love to overcome.
I can sense how you feel, I can understand the betrayal and dissappointment you must feel because I once was where you were at and felt those same things towards those I loved that left the church (my father). I can tell you that it is not abandonment of faith, but it is a thirst, an unquenchable never ending desire for freedom of conscience that leads many to this path. You hunger for it so badly that once the day dawn breaks into the dark recesses of the mental prison that confined you, that freedom at any price is the only thing that truly matters.
I hope that no matter what happens that you will realize that beyond human relationships there is nothing that lives and breathes, only buildings, policies, creeds, and world constructs based on human perception.
|Subject:||Letting go of expectations is the greatest thing I ever did for myself -- married to a|
|Date:||Dec 12 18:30|
|TBM for over 40 years, all I can do is create my own
happiness and if he is left out, it is his choice.
There are no guarantees in life, no wouldas, shouldas, couldas, what ifs.
Why a TBM hangs on so tight is a mystery to me. What are they afraid of?
Where is the 100% support for those who decide to use their 1st amendment rights to freedom of religion?
Why not change your mind? It is your right.
I found there is no point in comparing myself to others. All I end up with is a pity party; crying and feeling sorry for myself and whining about what I wish I had or what I expected to have!
It is too bad there is not more respect for freedom of religion by Mormons for those who leave that church.
Living in the here and now is far superior to any after- life kingdom that can be imagined.
|Subject:||Re: Hooray for you...|
|Date:||Dec 12 18:28|
|you chose your husband over the organization. Good
choice. So many come here because their TBM spouses are not as wise as
you. One comment. Don't be so sure the "perfect" people you
see at church have it any better than you. The Church tends to breed a
lot of plastic people. Bright and shiny on the outside, who knows what
on the inside. You have to wonder about an organization that causes so
much pain to so many. Anyway, I for one am glad you chose to "stick
it out" If your husband is an RFM'r he's worth it.
|Subject:||You haven't lost anything, you've gained!|
|Date:||Dec 12 18:36|
|You now have a husband who loves you fully and
totally. No religion to get in the way. He will never again put anything
above you or your children. No religion to take his time away from the
ones he loves.
Rest assured, their are plenty of husbands sitting in church who are jealous as hell. You are a lucky woman. My only suggestion? Return the favor. Show him that you put nothing about him. Not your religion. Not your mormon once-was-a-man god.
|Date:||Dec 12 19:34|
|In your initial post you said, "I don't have
what others have."
I wanted to cry when I read that. You have SO MUCH!!! Your husband may not go to church, but you have a loving spouse, a good father to your children, an "amazing man," a "good guy," the "man I fell in love with."
How many women on this board have a TBM ex-spouse? How many of us were married to priesthood holders who were abusive, controlling, bad dads, awful husbands, pitiful human beings, but they had what you perceive that others have? You have NO idea how many of those women at church that have what you think you don't are in horrible marriages with no love and respect, yet they put on a good show at church.
REJOICE in your marriage. Love the man, not his postition in an organization, no matter how valid you may think it is. He loves you, he supports you and he provides for you. Do you know how much I would give for somebody like that? It's a priceless gift to be married to somebody you truly love and who loves you. Cherish that gift.
People change and grow in life. This is a fact and sometimes they change in directions you don't expect. Love can adjust to that. You obviously are trying and I commend you for that. But please, don't think others have what you don't. You, dear #24, have what so many of us wish we had. I envy you.
|Subject:||Question for #24|
|Date:||Dec 12 19:41|
|Just a question for #24.
Nine years ago, I was married in the Salt Lake Temple. I am number 19. My whole life I was told to look forward to this wonderful, special, perfect day. Instead, I was nothing more than a number on MY wedding day. Does it ever bother you that you were reduced to a number on the single, most important day of your life?
I am not asking to be mean. It has bothered me so much for nine years that I have asked my husband to marry me again. I have never heard anyone else say anything about being a number, though I have asked a few. You are the first to have said something and remember the number. So, how did being a number on your wedding day affect you?
|Subject:||Hey, I was married in the SLC temple, but I don't remember the number thing at all...|
|Date:||Dec 12 20:23|
|It's been over 20 years ago, but I don't remember
being assigned a number.
My most vivid memory is of the locker room in the basement. I thought, "Geeze, this looks like I'm getting ready for a basketball game."
Everything in the temple was so impersonal. It was all so...factory like. When we finally got to the sealing room, and it was filled with friends and family, only then did it actually started to feel a little more like a wedding (but not much).
I contrast this with a "gentile" wedding I attending last year. It was a celebration! Everything was focused on the bride and groom and the start of their new life. No one was doing the hokey pokey during the ceremony.
But I don't remember anything about a number system...
|Subject:||Long time no see|
|Date:||Dec 12 20:21|
|It's good to see you here and your message is sure
"He loves you, he supports you and he provides for you. Do you know how much I would give for somebody like that?"
I really hope you find that special one.
|Subject:||Re: For #24|
|Date:||Dec 12 20:48|
|If my husband had left the church before me I would
have felt terrible and lost and resentful. And I wonder if I might have
left him and felt totally justified. It is very possible given the true
believer that I was.
But instead, I came to the quiet conclusion one day that the mormon church was not the one and only true church. It was just another church with lots of good people in it. I won't go into the long struggle that preceeded my conclusion, but when I decided to strike out on my own spiritual path, I thought my marriage would probably end.
I was so surprised to discover that the love my husband had for me was separate from our church membership. Why would this be so surprising to me? Because I had loved the church and my illusions more than I had loved my husband. He was just a human being. I probably would have chosen "God" over him. And that was only the beginning of learning about real love for me.
That day I left I finally allowed myself to think and feel authentically without regard to what my mormon upbringing had taught me. And the first thing I understood is that Jesus would not have authored celestial polygamy. Meaning, that this sorrow I had felt my whole life in mormonism when I thought of Heavenly Father's "plan of salvation" was due to a teaching that went contrary to who I understood Jesus to be. I was afraid and wounded by the mormon Heavenly Father who created a system that would provide for my everlasting celestial neglect. How was this heavenly? Or joyous?
And the answer was quite simple because in my heart of hearts I didn't believe Jesus would do this to me, or any woman.
Since I left I have had a rich journey and I haven't drawn conclusions yet as to who or what god might be. Now I don't have to draw conclusions. I'm healing and discovering. But I am understanding the nature of love a little better.
When I read your story #24, I think how lucky you must be to have a husband that isn't itching to get to the celestial kingdom and be a polygamist. He now knows that that teaching is all based on the carnality of humans.
Yes, you are to be commended for staying with him in light of others' stories here. But in my opinion, YOU are the lucky one to have HIM. He is spiritually leading you and you don't even know it yet.
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church - www.exmormon.org