|Subject:||My Father Planned His Funeral Last Night And...|
|Date:||Apr 23 11:49 2004|
|Lo and behold I was left out of his service.
He is supposed to die in the next few weeks. He is suffering from Lupus and congestive heart failure. Right now he is in the hospital being fed through an IV and lapsing in and out of consciousness. He is coherent when he is awake but very week and unable to move. It's sad to see him like this but everybody's time on this earth must come to an end sometime.
Last night he and my sister (an ultra-TBM whose FIL is a GA) [GA - Mormon general authority top leader in the church] arranged his funeral. As the oldest child in our family (8 kids) I assumed that I would offer a prayer, the eulogy, or take some part in his funeral. But now that we have left the church he made it clear that he has no compelling reason for me to speak or be seen at his funeral. He is asking my two BIL's to speak (both are in bishoprics), my sister's GA FIL to speak, and my brother to give the eulogy. I was asked to be a pall bearer if they need one.
The talk topics were also discussed. One talk is on the first vision, the next on the apostasy, and the final one on the plan of salvation. The special musical numbers will be "Praise to the Man" and "Have I Done Any Good in the World Today?". Opening song is "Oh My Father" and the closing is "God Be With You 'Till We Meet Again".
My other brother will dedicate the grave and the local SP will offer some words about the resurrection during the graveside service.
My wife and I were asked to wear our garments on the day of his funeral as a sign of family unity. We were also asked to sing in church the Sunday after his funeral along with the rest of our family. My wife and I are supposed to pick out the song we are to sing.
My wife and I decided to attend the service but in our own underwear. My wife just ordered a plain black cotton SLEEVELESS summer dress to wear for the occasion. I'll wear a suit and tie. My shirt will be gray or blue. We will not sing in church, we will not wear our garments, and we will not be part of the dog and pony show that my family wants to put on for the special occasion.
The part that hurts though is that my sister asked him numerous times if he could find a place in the program for me to speak or offer a prayer. He said that as long as his son is out of the church that he is not welcome to participate in the regular family activities.
It just reaffirms my feelings that the church has such a grip on people and people place total faith in it that they will forsake everything that is important to them in order to feed the church's demands.
Sorry for the long post. It's just that I have nobody else to confide in.
|Subject:||Boy, that's tough.|
|Date:||Apr 23 11:56|
|Amazing how the definition of family unity is you
compromising your integrity for the family, not the family accepting
your offering. I'm grateful for my TBM family because at my mother's
funeral, my catholic uncle was allowed to speak and the activejackmormon
himself read a poem.
|Subject:||I'm sorry you are losing your father|
|Date:||Apr 23 12:00|
|and that one of his last acts was to hurt you.
It will be hard, but try and put it in perspective, like, wearing a certain kind of underwear to show solidarity. That's just twisted.
Hell I'd pick a song to sing in church on Sunday, make sure it's a "good one" if you know what I mean.
|Subject:||Have a hug|
|Date:||Apr 23 11:59|
|I am sorry to hear of your soon to be loss and the
way your family is treating you in this time of grief.
I also have to commend both you and your wife for your decision. They are choosing to exclude you and then want you to conform after being slapped in the face. If he does not want you to take part then how could you possibly go against his wishes and take part even if its the week after?
|Subject:||That's tough . . . I really feel for you|
|Date:||Apr 23 11:59|
|Author:||Lost and Found|
|I especially think it adds insult to injury to ask
you to wear garments to the funeral. It's sad that the church has such a
hold on people like this. I told my family last night that I am leaving
the church and I got a similar initial response (however, all credit to
my family. After we had a chance to talk a bit, they are still not
happy, but at least still accepting of us.) When I told my father, he
began speaking in terms of YOU vs. MY family. It wasn't our family
anymore. You have all of my sympathy. I have some understanding of what
you are going through.
|Subject:||If someone felt that about me then (minor cuss)|
|Date:||Apr 23 12:17|
|I'd be DAMNED if I'd be seen GOING to the funeral.
Sounds like the service is going to be just like another Sacrament
meeting anyway. But that's me of course. I can hand back the 'fuck you'
attitude as much as it's slung at me. And if it's his wish to not have
you even attend the funeral, then hell, make him happy.
|Subject:||That's sad ...|
|Date:||Apr 23 12:34|
|I wouldn't wear the garments either (though I don't
think I'd make an open point of it, at least not on that kind of
occasion). I noticed your sister was more open to your participating
than your father. That reflects my experience as well. The older
generation of LDS are often more narrow about such things than their
kids. My wife's parents refused to fully accept me (long story--they did
fully accept me in some ways, but not others), but their believing kids
are much more open.
My condolences and best wishes to you and your family.
|Subject:||I'm sorry. I think my wife and I have many such events coming to deal with too. nt|
|Subject:||I never knew of such severe family pain...|
|Date:||Apr 23 13:16|
|until reading mormon stories like this one-
brainwashed to put church before family/compassion/reason. I would not
go but I admire your courage in attending with respect and without
conforming to cult practice.
The real world is crashing down on SLC at internet speed and the "grip" will loosen over time.
|Subject:||You got to love em don't you|
|Date:||Apr 23 13:35|
|those self-righteous soles. Family is what it is all about huh. You have to think, what would God do. Are what would your father do if he really lived a Christ like life.|
|Subject:||Re: The cruelty of this Church (cuss)...|
|Date:||Apr 23 14:03|
|just amazes me. With his dying breaths you father is trying to inflict as much pain on you as he can. Don't worry, you'll get your chance to speak. I suggest that after everyone else is gone, you go out to his graveside and say "Dad, you were an asshole, but I love you and I forgive you" ...|
|Subject:||Ouch! That's tough.(cussing)|
|Date:||Apr 23 14:16|
|::hug:: I'm so sorry for the loss of your father as
well as the cruelty of TSCC. It sickens me how the cult can have such
control over its members that non-believing family are treated like
shit. Families...It's about time. NOT!!
Stupid f*cking cult!
|Subject:||I'd publish a public notice, myself.|
|Date:||Apr 23 14:19|
|Author:||Three to make ready...|
|Spend the money and put it in the newspaper.
"My father, Mr. Blah B. Blahblah, will be deceased in a few weeks. Because I have rejected his religion, he has made it formally known that I can have no place at his funeral unless I keep my mouth shut and wear the special underwear of his religion.
"My wife and I are hereby giving public notice that we will not comply with his charade. Since he will not let us speak of our love for him, we've taken out this ad to let the world know of his hatred for us.
"Whatever eulogies may be given, he is a bitter old man. And whatever lip service he and the Mormon Church give to being family-oriented, this is just another prime example of their divisiveness and the brainwashing control they have over their adepts.
"We feel sorry for our father and his family, and we hope that in the hereafter, they may be brought to their senses. We offer our condolences in advance and wish him a speedy departure."
|Subject:||Brutal, but understandable...|
|Date:||Apr 23 16:06|
|That is the nature of the beast. I had not thought
about my father's funeral. He is in ill health, and could go at any
time. Since most of our pain results from frustrated expectations, you
have helped me to avoid some pain. And now that I have thought about it
a bit, my father's values are so different than mine, it would likely
not be appropriate for me to have any more than a toke role in his
funeral. As to wearing garments etc., that kind of suggesting indicates
how Neanderthal the LDS culture is.
The worst evil of Mormonism, in my view, is the manner in which it encourages people to build their lives on false foundations, which cause the kind of pain you describe as reality crashes in on some, but not others.
Best of luck Helaman. My thoughts are with you.
All the best,
|Subject:||I wouldn't go.|
|Date:||Apr 23 16:21|
|I'd just visit the grave with my own family a few days later. Have a moment of silence or something. I see no point in attending a party you haven't been invited too.|
|Subject:||A couple ideas...|
|Date:||Apr 23 16:52|
|It depends on how upset you are and if/how strongly
you want to express yourself.
1) Place your garments on his casket, along with a flower.
2) Wear and/or pass out T-Shirts that say "I thought it was about FAMILY".
Personally, I like option #1
|Date:||Apr 23 16:58|
|Though you have every right to be angry, try not to
let that interfere what you truly want most in connection with your dad,
his funeral, and family relations. Hard to sort that out, I know. Have
you thought about talking to your dad about this? (Not saying that's a
good idea, not knowing him or you, but it appears to be an option.)
As I see it, there's a boundary issue here. Garments or not is too personal--that's in your own boundaries.
|Subject:||Re: My Father Planned His Funeral Last Night And...|
|Date:||Apr 23 17:35|
|Your message touched me so deeply. I lost my dad unexpectedly last year. Believe it or not, all of us five (two out, three in) children spoke at the service. Mine was about living each and everyday to its fullest, since we just can't know how many we have. No Name-Of-Cheese-And-Rice-Amen at the end. Just thanks to all for being there and in his life. I would have been so hurt had my father requested I be excluded. I am so sorry for your pain and your loss. Best wishes.|
|Subject:||I, too am very touched by your post.|
|Date:||Apr 23 17:52|
|How ironic that in their dire need to keep their
whole family in Mormonism they drive people out of their family!
We lost my adult brother to cancer a few years ago, and I know that it just plain hurt when he died.
Many of us tried to blame our hurt on what someone said, or did, or didn't do, but in the end I believe that we just hurt because he died. Period.
If it makes them feel better to exclude your participation, shame on them.
But, if I were you I would attend on my own terms and appreciate whatever goodness and happy memories you can glean from your father's life and let the rest go. Let someone else hang on to the toxic hate if they want.
|Subject:||Family ... isn't it about time!|
|Date:||Apr 23 18:09|
|Family ... isn't it about time!
If they only practiced what they preached, the world might be a better place!
Even in their last breaths ... this institution continues to divide and separate loved one!
I am sending you a big ((((HUG)))) ... as my heart goes out to you!
|Subject:||I am sorry for you (long)|
|Date:||Apr 23 18:11|
|Please accept my condolences at this very trying
time. I'm a nevermo, in fact I'm a *very* lapsed Catholic. I never knew
so much about Mormonism's antifamily attitude, it's exclusiveness, it's
tribal-ghetto mentality as I have learned from this site and from your
post. I understand the pain of seeing your father ebb like that and am
sorry you have to endure such bitterness. But, am curious - how would
anyone know if you were wearing Mormon underwear? I assume your
reference to your wife's sleeveless top would be a clue (I've never seen
the underwear), but if I'm wrong, I'll be damned if I can understand how
anyone would know. Your father's attitude is probably due to what others
here call cog-dis, and this you cant fight. Last year my wife and I
attended a burial service in a small southern Idaho town for her
Episcopalian aunt; the aunt's former daughter-in-law (son died) was also
an exmo but since the aunt had remained close to that family a bishop
member was asked to read the prayer; the aunt's son picked out a prayer
from the Episcopal Book of Common Prayer and the bishop refused to read
it - the ideas conflicted with Mormonism; I couldn't believe that. He
should've said "I don't feel comfortable with that, let someone
else do it". Instead he read some Moron bullshit - and so the lady
was laid to rest without her chosen prayers. Why did I recall this
incident? Just because the notion of Moron insensitive non-inclusion
seemed so parallel to your sad situation. Take care. There are people
|Subject:||I am very sad for you and the family split created by|
|Date:||Apr 23 18:27|
|the cult mentality. Sadly, if your sister's father
in law, who is GA suggested to your father that you be included in the
funeral and that families should come together at times like this, your
father would click his heels in blind obedience and follow
The part about requesting you and your wife to wear garments is just so very sad.
Thanks for taking the time to share your anguish.
|Subject:||Is there going to be a "garment" check at the funeral?|
|Date:||Apr 23 21:06|
|I am so sorry about your Father, and the pain you are being subjected to concerning his funeral. Why do appearances rate higher than family feelings in the Mormon realm? My MIL is so afraid the family will not purchase an elaborate, expensive coffin for her. She wants everything to be" so beautiful". I was just blown away that any family member would have the gall to tell you to put your garments on for the service. That is ridiculous--and who is going to do be in charge of checking underwear?|
|Subject:||Family. Isn't it about...time?|
|Subject:||Think of it this way.....|
|Date:||Apr 23 22:57|
|By the time of the funeral, your father will have already been on the other side and will know the foolishness of it all. Just sit there during the silly ceremony and imagine hearing him yelling...."You silly bastards...You don't have to do this ridiculous charade!!!"|