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In the Mormon Temple, Mormons covenant to wear their sacred garments (which they must buy from the church) at all times. These garments are similar to long underwear with 4 Masonic markings. 1 marking over each breast (a compass and a square), 1 straight line over the stomach and a similar straight line over the right knee. These garments are usually bulky and since they cover the knees and shoulders, Mormons are unable to wear sleeveless clothes or normal shorts.

Now the doctrinal question is, “Should women wear bras over garments?” In Mormonism, this is taken as a very serious question.

Subject:	Doctrine or folklore: Women must wear bras over garments?
Date:	May 09, 2007
Author:	Deconstructor

I asked this question about a year ago, and the answer surprised me. Some women were told in the temple that they had to wear their bras over their garment tops. Others were told it didn't matter.

There is no "official" doctrine I can find on this. And apparently the church has not been consistent on their instruction.

I suspect the female temple workers just make it up based on what they were told as young women entering the temple for the first time. That would make this instruction folklore and not doctrine.

Were any of you women ever told that church priesthood leaders required bras to be worn over garments? Has anyone ever been asked by a church leader if they were complying with this instruction?

Am I just making a big deal out of nothing, or is the wearing of bras over garments a burden for women?

Subject:	Re: Doctrine or folklore: Women must wear bras over garments?
Date:	May 09 18:22
Author:	maeve

I was told that the markings had to be next to my skin. And as icky as bra over garments looked and felt I think garments over bra would look even worse.

Subject:	I was told the same thing...
Date:	May 09 18:26
Author:	Eloher

and it is icky. Ill fitting bras that ride up because they're over fabric and rashes under the breasts from the heat and dampness.

I don't miss those days.

Subject:	Re: Doctrine or folklore: Women must wear bras over garments?
Date:	May 09 18:29
Author:	GDTeacher

My DW [dear wife] was told initially bra over garments, then she was told it didn't matter, then her temple worker mother told her that it was bra over garments. Luckily she does what she wants and usually doesn't wear one anyway.

Subject:	My wife was told to wear it only on the outside of the holy underwear.
Date:	May 09 21:04
Author:	Rev. Ex-Necrodunker

What a cult! It looked ridiculous. Now she’s back to wearing sexy Victoria Secrets with no nasty white undershirts and boy does she look hot!! Another blessing from leaving the morg.

Subject:	Re: Doctrine or folklore: Women must wear bras over garments?
Date:	May 09 18:34
Author:	100%garmentfree

I don't remember any reference to "priesthood authority" being cited, but I do know I was told either in the temple or by the lady helping me at Beehive Clothing before my first temple trip that the garment must be next to the skin, under the bra.

Over or under, it isn't the bra that is the burden. The garments would be a burden either way, but it is insulting to be told which underwear (the only choices being hideous ones) you are allowed to purchase and wear and it is doubly insulting to have someone tell you that you cannot wear real underclothing with a non-magical function the way that it works best on your body. Bras are made to hold boobs up. Mine would never stay in place over that slippery fabric....plus the garment tops had that seam right under your boobs and constricted and chafed and wadded up under the bra....So nice to be free of it!

Subject:

DW confirms that she was instructed to always wear the garment under any 'foundation garment'; translation bra. n/t

Subject:	wearing bras over garments a burden for women? are you kidding?
Date:	May 09 18:38
Author:	Not the girl you used to know

I bet I could speak for all the women out there when I say everything about wearing Garments is a burden for women.

Wearing two or more layers of clothes over the whole body at ALL times and in ALL seasons is indeed a burden.

Wearing a bra over garments causes rashes in places that can't possibly breathe or get dry, constant tugging to make the whole ensemble of clothes, garments and bra to stay tucked in, even and tidy without garments hanging out, appearing above necklines or leaving lines around the legs or hanging below sleeve and hem lines. Falling bra straps also can bring down the garment sleeve.
What fun!
Breast feeding a baby is further complicated by having to wear those cumbersome garments. One more layer of clothes to hassle with. Too many wet layers of clothes and you increase your chances for mastitis.

Add to that how very unattractive a woman looks in this underwear and it is no wonder so many LDS women put on weight. THEY NEVER SEE THEIR BODY NAKED!!

Feeling truly feminine in intimate settings is next to impossible while clad in the sacred G's.

Not only was I told that the garment had to be next to the shin, it could not touch the floor and never be washed with anything but white clothes, and never bleached. All this was told to me by the women in the temple who instructed the females getting their own endowments.

The day I quit wearing my garments I felt like a butterfly flying free of it's cocoon.

Subject:	I was told bra on top. My sister was told garment on top.
Date:	May 09 18:43
Author:	Punky's Dilemma

I was told that I should adhere to the bra on top standard by the temple matron and that failure to do so was a violation of temple covenants.

My sister was told it wasn't a big deal either way.

Until GBH says, "Thus saith the Lord, bras ON TOP of garments," I suppose it is largely an issue of apologetic minutae.

And I have to add that I HATED the bra on top of garment standard. My breasts kept slipping out because my bra couldn't do the job it was designed to do under those conditions. So I was constantly having to adjust and manhandle those sweater puppies. Very embarassing, and it drew a lot more attention to my breasts in all their walking-pornographic glory than was necessary.

Subject:	Re: In 1962 I was told in no uncertain terms that the bra went on the outside;
Date:	May 09 19:00
Author:	LC

nothing was to be under the garment. And that was told me in the temple by the women who were in charge. A few times I wore the garment on the outside, but had plenty of guilt when I did. Later, I think around 1990, I talked to a temple president about some other questions I had, and during the discussion he told me that the only clothing that was acceptable to wear under the garment was support stockings in the case of a woman having severe varicose veins; in other words, a medical reason.

Subject:	"sweater puppies"?
Date:	May 09 19:18
Author:	Matt

That's a term I'd never heard before.

I try to learn something new every day.

That's it for today! ;oD

Subject:	I was told by the temple matron on that SACRED NOT SECRET first trip. . .
Date:	May 09 23:16
Author:	JoAnn

that the bra had to go OVER the garmies. It didn't work for me any better than it did for you, Punky. It became a very slippery issue indeed for those of us who were, ah, more generously endowed. . .

I was also told by my VT on my first visit after going to the temple, to be SURE and wear nothing between myself and the garmies.

Before long, I decided that when a "priesthood authority" person wore a bra, that's the person I would obey on this issue. Unless one of them were to be similarly encumbered, I figured that they didn't have any right to an opinion on the issue.

An ex-mo in the making, even in the late '80's.

Subject:

I was told Gs next to skin, bra on top. Hey, tight bras didn't leave a mark! BTW, some women even wear panties over Gs.. I drew the line there, and wore NO panties... oh hottie! ..n/t

Subject:	somewhat adult, I guess..
Date:	May 09 19:24
Author:	anon

I was also told that nothing went under the garments. The bra was bad enough, but try using a sanitary napkin with garments! Good God! What a joke!

Subject:	It probably depends on who is doing the telling
Date:	May 09 20:11
Author:	Må®v ƒråndsæn

But DW will swear bar OVER garments is the law as she was always told, in Idaho.

What a relief all that is in the past.

Subject:	I hate underwear.
Date:	May 09 20:59
Author:	RiverRat

There, I said it. I mean bras in particular. I'm glad to be rid of it all except at work when I have to don the over-the-shoulder-boulder-holders. I get a lot of flack from my sisters (who've given up on the garment thing). I finally found a study that proposed that tight-fitting elastic around the lymphatic system in near the armpits may contribute to breast cancer, so there.

Subject:	I left the Morg at 18 so I never had the wonderful opportunity of wearing garmies but I remember seeing my mother
Date:	May 09 20:55
Author:	LadyInDC

wear her bra over hers. I believe the reasoning is because if you caught fire the garments worn directly against your skin will prevent you from being burned, at least in the areas the garments covered.

my god that sounds so effing crazy now.

Subject:	Re: Doctrine or folklore: Women must wear bras over garments?
Date:	May 09 21:14
Author:	Some Lady

Doctrine or folklore? Beats me. But, take it from one who tried b's over g's and failed miserably, it's absolutely awful and doesn't work well at all. :(

Subject:	A or DD cup instructor probably made the diff.
Date:	May 09 21:24
Author:	Mercury

I am guessing that perhaps a temple worker with some Double D's who needed support and needed a bra to work properly said wear garmies over.

Subject:

I have laughed so hard reading this thread that the tears are flowing! ROFL! (very adult)

My guess is that G's are revenue generators for the morgue.

They were ghastly during that time of the month especially prior to the flap-less bottoms. Trying to get that pad to stick to a flap was more than a gal should have had to deal with. ROFL!

I have a feeling that Susan I/S is going to delete the following, but I remember loosing a pad one day. It was there prior to my arrival at the U-haul place where they were installing the trailer hitch to the back of my car. But when I arrived back to the dealership, the pad was missing. LMAO! I would hate to think that I lost it on the showroom floor! LOL!

Perhaps it was experiences like this one that caused the brethren to allow women to wear undies.

Subject:	Re: I have laughed so hard reading this thread that the tears are flowing! ROFL! (very adult)
Date:	May 09 21:31
Author:	runner

Sandie, that is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time! Now I have tears rolling down my cheeks.

Subject:	Re: What idiot thought those flappy G's up in the first place?
Date:	May 09 22:54
Author:	Some Lady

Just like everything else, I suppose that "flappy" design was a direct result of divine revelation from God. ;)

Subject:	Re: "... revelation from God." LOL!
Date:	May 09 23:06
Author:	Sandie

I'm not sure how you would wear panties under 1-piece garments. Wouldn't that make bathroom visits more time consuming having to remove all of your clothing in order to go? It would be even more entertaining when trying to use a public toilet.

LOL!

Subject:	Re: "I'm not sure how you would wear panties under 1-piece garments. . ."
Date:	May 09 23:21
Author:	Some Lady

:))))))))))))))) Yep, if you're going to attempt THAT, you better not be in a hurry in the bathroom. That could spell trouble! :)))))))))))))

Subject:	Outside. And a question for the women (mature).
Date:	May 09 22:53
Author:	toto

I was told by matrons in the temple that the garment should be the closest thing to the skin.

OK, here's an interesting one, though... how many women wore underwear underneath their garments when they had their periods? I raise my hand to the square.

I never felt sexy at all with garments on underneath my bra. It was all weird, weird, and more weird.

Subject:	Re: . . . how many women wore underwear underneath their garments . . .
Date:	May 09 22:59
Author:	Some Lady

Okay, I'll admit it . . . I actually tried it once . . . and I lasted for about 10 minutes . . . it felt really, really WEIRD and made me VERY CRABBY. :(

Subject:	I hated it too!
Date:	May 09 23:09
Author:	toto

It always made me feel yicky (sicky and yucky combined). My bottoms would fall off or sag when I wore them on top of regular underwear and I CAN'T BELIEVE I EVER WORE THOSE THINGS LET ALONE WORE THEM LIKE THAT!!!

Oh my god. I love beautiful underwear and I can't believe, did I say that enough?, I can't believe I ever wore them or anything else underneath.

Subject:

Both my wives received specific instructions for bras over. n/t

Subject:	Yes. It is an anatomical burden.
Date:	May 09 23:29
Author:	Nightingale

When you're a newbie member and in the temple for the first time and you get taken into a sacred room and told by the all-in-white grandmother in charge how to wear the holy g's (before you've even seen them!) you tend to take it as "gospel" that for some divine reason, the bra goes on top.

I think it would look far better underneath and then maybe the top at least could get away with being considered a half-slip (or something?).

As I had to buy larger to cover my height (especially the bottoms - if the knee wasn't covered all the hounds of hell would get me apparently) the "darts" and the markings were all over the place so that added to the general discomfort and ill-fit and questionable fashion statement. Even with a larger size, I still found that the scoop neck hung down lower than could be considered strictly modest, revealing cleavage. (Is that supposed to happen? lol).

Yeah, bending over every morning shoving anatomy and excess fabric up inside your bra was a real holy experience.

I must say I missed the memo on the protection bit - never heard that, didn't know about the magic thing until enlightened by RfM. Maybe we don't do that up here in Canada? Only in Utah maybe?

Subject:	I'm shocked!
Date:	May 09 23:41
Author:	duffy

A woman would ACTUALLY wear a bra UNDER her garments??? No WAY!! The was like the first thing they told me (1983) when they put me into those crazy things. Bra on top - ALWAYS. NOTHING touches the skin before the Gs. I saw a LOT of sister mishes in their undies on my mission and they ALL adhered to the bra on top rule. This is the first I've ever heard that anybody was getting away with doing it the other way around.

It looked patently ridiculous to have the bra on top. But of course when you're wearing garments, you could hardly look anything BUT ridiculous. I never had any trouble with "slippage". I liked the cotton Gs because they "breathed" and helped keep everything where I put it. (Nylon was too slippery.) I'm DD and believe me, they stayed put under all that. In fact once I tossed the Gs, it took me a while to get used to the feel of an underwire bra rubbing against my skin without that layer of cotton in between.

I've got to ask my TBM friend about this. I know she wears bra on top and I'd like to know if she has heard that some people were told it didn't matter.

Subject:	Re: "This is the first I've ever heard that anybody was getting away with doing it the other way around."
Date:	May 09 23:55
Author:	Some Lady

I never looked at it as "getting away with it." It was simply impossible for me to do it the way they said it was to be done . . . and at the same time stay sane. And, I determined very early that it was none of their business. I never discussed it in temple recommend interviews. I just answered the question about wearing the garments as directed in the affirmative. Period. End of discussion. I never felt like I was getting away with anything, I was just doing what I needed to do for my own comfort and sanity. :)

Subject:	Garment weirdness-- true stories, kinda gross
Date:	May 10 00:35
Author:	Rather Not Say

You know that slit in the old style, one-piece garments? 30 years ago I assisted physicians who performed pelvic exams through the slit; the patients just wouldn't take off their garments.

And several SLC OB/GYNs told me they used to deliver babies through the slit. (Bet the babies were conceived through the slit, too.)

On a lighter note, a guy I knew who worked at LDS hospital told me about the time a GA came in for open heart surgery and absolutely refused to take off his one-piece garmies, so they waited til he was sedated, rolled 'em down around one ankle, taped 'em in place, and prepped him for surgery. (I find this kinda hard to believe -- seems more likely they'd have removed 'em and put 'em back on afterward, before he woke up, but that's the way I was told it.)

Subject:	Definitely on top.
Date:	May 10 00:57
Author:	Cindy

The matron at the temple, my MIL and 7 SIL all made sure I knew bra went on top. Garments are washed separate, never touch the floor and are always against your skin 24/7.

DH and I married in my parents church and for the first year of marriage, I wore sexy undies and nighties from (gasp!) Fredericks of Hollywood. After going to the temple, I towed the party line and never again put on those sexy things. I felt like the frumpiest woman alive.

My self esteem went into the toilet. Between garmetns, guilt and stress from DH's health problems, my weight sky rocketed. Everytime I looked in the mirror and saw myself in those horrible things I felt like why try to lose the weight because I am never going to be sexy again.

I am now trying to get the weight off, which is very hard to do.

Subject:	WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 12 11:30
Author:	Deconstructor

I cannot find any historical reference to women having to wear their bras over their garments. Yet apparently some women were told this in the temple, and others were not.

This is a quick poll for women. You can answer in the subject line if you prefer:

A) What did the temple matron tell you about wearing garments?
- Bra must be over garments
- Bra must be under garments
- It didn't matter (personal choice)
- Didn't say anything

B) What Temple?

C) What year?

If we see a consistent pattern, then it's likely the instructions came from the church. If not, then the instructions were most likely folklore tradition passing on from one generation to the next.

So women, what were you told in the temple?

Subject:	I was told...
Date:	May 12 11:37
Author:	Deenie, the dreaded single adult
Mail Address:

...in Atlanta, in the mid-to-late '80s (can't remember exactly, but definitely pre-1990), that the bra was to be OVER the garments.

:^)

Subject:	Me too - Atlanta, 1988 -
Date:	May 12 12:23
Author:	JoAnn
Mail Address:

told by a temple matron - the bra MUST be over the garmies. Only things like surgical dressings or - ah - feminine hygeine items - can come between the garmies and the bod.

Subject:	To be worn "next to skin"....nt
Date:	May 12 12:01
Author:	wings
Mail Address:

Subject:	What temple? What Year? n/t
Date:	May 12 12:03
Author:	Deconstructor
Mail Address:	`ldsgems@hotmail.com`

Subject:	Bra must be over garments/ St. George temple/ 1982 n/t
Date:	May 12 12:06
Author:	inutah
Mail Address:

Subject:	What I was told...
Date:	May 12 12:09
Author:	toto
Mail Address:

A) The bra must be worn over garments (with a 'because') since garments are sacred and should be closest to the skin. This statement was given by a matron to a group of us going through for the first time. She also mentioned that old garments make great rags for cleaning. At the time I thought that was a contradictory statement to the original one she gave about the sacred nature of garments. I also thought it was appalling to use garments as rags and I never did use them that way.
B) Salt Lake Temple
C) January 1986

Subject:	Was told also "close to skin" over garments white or neutral, Washington DC 1997 n/t
Date:	May 12 12:32
Author:	Isis
Mail Address:

Subject:	THAT'S RIGHT, Isis! White bras to signify purity! I was told that too. n/t
Date:	May 12 12:34
Author:	toto
Mail Address:

Subject:	White bra only over garments, Oakland CA 1998 n/t
Date:	May 12 12:39
Author:	junkpurger
Mail Address:	`junkpurger@yahoo.com`

Subject:	I was told "next to skin" which I interpreted to mean UNDER bra; Los Angeles Temple; 1980 n/t
Date:	May 12 13:03
Author:	Some Lady
Mail Address:

Subject:	good survey! My answers...
Date:	May 12 13:16
Author:	Nolongerin
Mail Address:

A) What did the temple matron tell you about wearing garments?
- Bra must be under garments (and she was emphatic about that)

B) What Temple? Salt Lake, live session

C) What year? 1985

Subject:	Re: WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 12 13:25
Author:	NoLihoma
Mail Address:

Los Angeles Temple

1976

Lecture to new brides in chapel before endowment ceremony. We were told the following (and believe me, I listened carefully because I was uber-TBM and wanted to do the right thing):

1) Garments MUST be worn next to skin and UNDER any other underwear, including bras.

2) We could take them off to have relations with our husbands, but we were to put them back on immediately afterward.

3) We could take them off to swim or do another athletic activity where there was nothing else appropriate to wear that would cover garments, but that we were to find shorts and shirts long enough to cover them whenever we were doing things like walking, biking, running, etc. that didn't absolutely require us to wear shorts.

Inthenameofcheeseandrice, amen.

Subject:	We brides were told by the temple worker.....
Date:	May 12 13:27
Author:	Tahoe Girl
Mail Address:

to wear them at all times, and to not let them drop to the floor, even when we were changing, showering, etc. In other words, keep them off of the floor because they're sacred.

I don't think I ever heard anything definitive about under or over the bra, but I wore my bra over the garments so all would appear neat (so no folds from the loose fitting garments would show under my clothing).

Manti, 1981

Subject:	Dfinitely OVER the G's!
Date:	May 12 14:19
Author:	Tabitha
Mail Address:

And I was pissed! Seriously so. I got married in JULY!!! In St. George, UT - home of the 120 degree nasty summers! I'd spent all this money on sexy lingerie, cute bras and such only to be told I had to wear them OVER my G's!!! No wonder I started out married life severely depressed! My other local girlfriends who also got married in the St. George temple complained as well. Our poor husbands were upset that they couldn't just "rip our shirts off" to get to the bra, LOL. They'd have to undo the bra, take it off and then take off the G's and shirt to finally get to the good stuff! Nobody was happy! One of my friends said her mom was told that she had the "option" of wearing her bra under her G's because she was really big busted and if she absolutely could not get the proper support she needed (due to the bra slipping down on the garment top) then she had "special permission" to wear her bra underneath. My friend was bustier than me (and I'm a DD) so I can't imagine how big her mom was! And yet my friend didn't feel that she herself was "qualified" to wear her bra underneath. I quit that bra over the G's nonsense last summer and gradually just stopped wearing the stupid things altogether (G's that is, not bra! lol). I got endowed/married in July of 1999. My friend got endowed/married in February 1999 both in St. George. And it was an old lady who talked to me. She referred to sex as "intercourse". I had to keep from laughing because of how she said it, lol (when she was giving me "permission" to remove them for that purpose).

I wish I could have a G-burning bonfire. Pass the beer, burn the G's, flip the bird to Kolob. Now that would be a fun summer night! he he

Subject:	Yes, also was told about not letting them touch the floor! I was super paranoid doing laundry for YEARS! And I never could bring myself to use them as rags, either, lol.....n/t
Date:	May 12 14:23
Author:	Tabitha
Mail Address:

Subject:	I'd forgotten, about the laundry taboos. . .
Date:	May 13 01:21
Author:	JoAnn
Mail Address:

I was told that you couldn't just throw your dirty garmies in with the other dirty clothes. . .they had to be kept separate, like in a pillow case. They mustn't touch "regular" clothes.

Subject:	SLC, mid 90s, bra over g's. n/t
Date:	May 12 14:19
Author:	Nightingale
Mail Address:

Subject:	Logan Temple married 1962 - Garments next to skin, only. Bra over garment.
Date:	May 12 14:27
Author:	SusieQ#1
Mail Address:	`sllestodd@aol.com`

This was standard for everyone I knew everywhere I lived. I didn't hear anything different until about the 80's.
Markings were to be cut out and burned, also, before they could be used as rags.
I tell a story about that ...

(repost)
The whole "garment" thing was a problem for me. It started off bad, but did get a little better but in the end, they ended up in the gross, smelly trash, marks still in tact.

Here is a little story of my first experience back in about 1963 of following the proper care of used garments! Of otherwise known as: "How I nearly set BYU housing on fire."

We were all taught in the temple, as I recall when first learning about the garments and their care, that the "sacred markings" were to be cut out and burned and then they were just ordinary cloth and could be used as rags, etc. The Mormons were very frugal.

I had been a member a little over a year, married in the Logan temple and living at BYU in Wymount Married Student Housing when I noticed that my BIC hubby had old garments left over from his mission a few years back that were in terrible shape. So, trying to do things "right" I decided to ask a neighbor-Molly Mormon how she disposed of the markings. She told me she cut them out and put them in a can and lit them on fire and threw away the ashes. Oh, great, I though, I can do that. No problem.

So, I got busy and carefully cut out the markings of hubby's one piece cotton garments (some had the buttons up the front for ...err...ahh..well, you know.

I put a couple dozen of those snippets in a washed out soup can, and not wanting to draw attention, I decided not to go outside on our third floor balcony and light them on fire, so I put the can on our kitchen table, and lit the pieces on fire. But, something went very wrong very fast and the flame got too high VERY FAST and the can too hot and I had to throw water on it to get it out!

I almost set our apt. in BYU housing on fire! I opened all the doors and windows and tried to fan out the smoke.

When hubby came home from classes at BYU, he noticed the ring on the table we had refinished before we got married and hauled to Utah from Oregon, and not wanting to admit, totally, what I had done, I just told him that I put something hot on it by mistake! He never did know what I had done! I was not about to tell him either. After all, I was a new convert, and how did I know things would go so bad trying to be righteous!

From then on, I flushed the cut out marks of the old garments down the toilet and we had a whole new set of rags!
This was an interesting choice, as it appears that it was symbolic of what was to come. The whole Mormon thing went down the "toilet" so to speak, eventually!

This continued until I walked out of the temple in 1995 and took those silly things off for the last time.

I kept them in a plastic grocery bag in my closet until I decided that I never wanted to look at them again so I threw that bag over my shoulder like Santa Clause, trouped out to the trash cans and threw the whole bag in adding nasty, dirty old trash on top.

Then I walked back into the house with a huge smile on my face as I thought about their route into the trash truck, where they were crushed up with the rest of the dirty stinking trash, then dumped into the local landfill!

Ahh..what a wonderful feeling! I had just rid my closet of any signs of the God of regulation underwear!

Now I want that job as Garment Police so I can go into the homes of those who got their name removal letters telling them they cannot wear the garments anymore and yank those things right out of their dresser drawers! Just let me at them!! [I am greatly disappointed that they don't send out those kinds of letters anymore. Destroyed my greatest fantasy!]

Subject:	Bra over G's. Washington D.C. 1989. My excom letters (received 3 of them) instructed me not to wear them. Apparently, I lost the privilege. :-) n/t
Date:	May 12 14:41
Author:	Sandie
Mail Address:

Subject:	Bra over the garments - SLC temple 1970
Date:	May 12 14:33
Author:	anon exmo
Mail Address:

We still had live people in the skit at that time and the slashing stuff which scared me for years.

Subject:	Re: WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 12 14:45
Author:	Not the girl you used to know
Mail Address:

A) What did the temple matron tell you about wearing garments?
I was told the Bra must be over garments

I was also told that they must never touch the ground.
They must only be washed with other white clothes and do not bleach them because they would turn yellow.
I was told that they must be worn day and night( with no explanation about what that meant)

B) What Temple? Provo Temple

C) What year? 1978

Subject:	Bra over g's/ SL temple/ mid 80's nt
Date:	May 12 15:02
Author:	maeve

Subject:	The temple matron told me...
Date:	May 12 15:16
Author:	JellyBeanLady

...that the bra should always be closest to the skin. This was the Atlanta temple, 1991. One of the women going through at the same time was a very overweight young woman. She asked if it would be acceptable to cut the lace off the bottom of the legs so it wouldn't dig into her skin. The matron got all huffy and had to go check with someone about it. The answer: yes, it was ok to remove the lace as long as she didn't remove the sacred marking. My matron also emphasized not letting the garment touch the floor during laundering or dressing, told us the garments should be washed separately from all other laundry, and should be put on right foot first, then left. Sheesh! I can't believe I allowed someone not only to tell me what kind of underwear to have, but how to put it on and how to wash it!

My mother was endowed in 1978 in Mesa, AZ, and was told garment next to skin, also.

Subject:	Jordan River Temple 2000
Date:	May 12 15:18
Author:	oh my heck

They didn't tell me either way. But they did tell me not to let them touch the ground. My mom said she had never heard that before and so I figured I was free to let them tough the ground:) OOps.

My sister went through the SLC temple in 2002 and they told her it was her choice, over or under.

Subject:	London Temple, 1984
Date:	May 12 15:53
Author:	Claire

We were told by the temple matron that bras were to be worn over the garments, and that all underwear should be, so that the garment was worn next to the skin at all times. Was also told to never let the garments fall to the floor and if they did, to pick them up immediately.

Insane huh?

Subject:	Re: WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 12 15:54
Author:	no more meetings

Bra over, 1968.

Subject:	I'm answering for me, my friend, my mother, and my sister.
Date:	May 12 15:59
Author:	Punky's Dilemma

Me: Bra on top. Denver, 1997
Mother: Bra on top. Idaho Falls, 1974
Friend: Bra on top. Manti, 1997
Sister: Personal Choice, St. Louis, 1998

Subject:	SLC temple 1980 white bra over g's- friend went in 2005 was told bra ok to wear under g's. n/t
Date:	May 12 16:24
Author:	Carrie

Subject:

"Wear next to the skin." SLC temple, 1976 nt

Subject:	I actually was never told one way or the other in the temple (m)
Date:	May 12 16:41
Author:	Exmo in ID

I never found out you were supposed to wear a bra over the top of them (which looks even stupider than they do anyway) until about 2 years before I finally left the church.

Subject:

I never heard the part about not letting them touch the floor, either. nt

Subject:	Yup, bra over, garments next to skin - SLC in the 80s
Date:	May 12 16:45
Author:	Vee

Salt Lake City, 80s:
Told to wear bra over the garments so that the g's were closest to the skin. I really do believe this is standard throughout the church, although I'd have to ask a relative of mine who is a temple matron to be sure.

I was also given the little talk on how to dispose of markings and told never to treat the g's disrespectfully by leaving them on the floor, etc. Again, I'm pretty sure this little spiel is standard and maybe even scripted.(?)

Subject:

Don't let them touch the floor! Remember being told that they are our "second skin?" :-) n/t

Subject:	I have to admit I DO NOT remember
Date:	May 12 17:49
Author:	cl2

Let's see, I had been suicidally depressed for 18 months having found out my boyfriend was gay--going through lots of counseling sessions with bishops of singles' ward and LDS SS therapist. Having to get my recommend from my cousin in my parents' ward--who knew nothing of my soon-to-be husband being gay (and he always thought he was better than our family as it was). I didn't even want to go through the temple, but there was NO POINT in marrying a gay if the church wasn't true--so I did it. I was rebelling against it all the way through. I was actually relieved when it was over. (I have a vivid imagination and I was sure we were going to have an orgy in the temple.) I remember NEXT TO NOTHING about what the matron said. I was endowed in Logan August 1984.

I do remember that my parents didn't allow their garments to touch the floor, but completely forgot about that until coming to this board. Mine touched the floor on a daily basis--let alone were washed with anything and everything. Some even ended up pink. I sure treated them with the sacredness they deserved.

The reason I wore my bra over my garments is because my mom did.

All in all, that entire time of my life was just one traumatic experience after another.

Subject:

Over garments, Jordon River, '89. NT

Subject:	For me
Date:	May 12 20:25
Author:	Third Witness's Wife

I was told it was a personal choice of how to wear the garments.

August 1994.

Jordan River Temple

Subject:

Garments must always be next to skin (i.e. bras on top); SL Temple; 1995 n/t

Subject:

1984 - St. George - Bra over garments n/t

Subject:	Re: WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 12 23:55
Author:	Claudia Banghead

I was instructed to wear garments next to the skin at Oakland Temple in 1980, however in the mid-90's the RSP told me that it was a personal choice and that neither she nor the bish could instruct anyone whether to wear bra (or other undergarments) over or under.

Subject:

1993 - Los Angeles - bra over the garments

Subject:

Bra over garments. Dallas, 1990. n/t

Subject:	Re: WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 13 01:17
Author:	Kate

A) personal choice
B)Sydney
C) 1995

A friend, however, had been told at the Sydney Temple in 1989 that the bra had to be worn over the garments & knickers were not to be worn except if they were a necessity during her menstrual cycle.

We thought the difference was more to do with the temple matron & her personal opinion than church doctrine.

Subject:

bra over garments, in SLC temple, 1971. n/t

Subject:	For me
Date:	May 12 20:25
Author:	Third Witness's Wife

I was told it was a personal choice of how to wear the garments.

August 1994.

Jordan River Temple

Subject:

Garments must always be next to skin (i.e. bras on top); SL Temple; 1995 n/t

Subject:

1984 - St. George - Bra over garments n/t

Subject:	Re: WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 12 23:55
Author:	Claudia Banghead

Subject:

1993 - Los Angeles - bra over the garments

Subject:

Bra over garments. Dallas, 1990. n/t

Subject:	Re: WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 13 01:17
Author:	Kate

Subject:

bra over garments, in SLC temple, 1971. n/t

Subject:

bra over, denver, 1994. BUT being the rebel i am, i wore normal undies UNDER my garmies!! couldn't stand those things!! N/T

Subject:	Re: WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 13 18:53
Author:	Gabrielle

I was told to wear my bra OVER my garments...Oakland Temple, California, 1990. I ignored that stupid instruction, especially after going through that inane 'endowment' and wore my bra underneath. Didn't seem to make any difference. It was still uncomfortable. And I was a 'one-piecer'. Tried the two-piece, they were worthless, the one-piece were just as worthless, but just a bit more comfortable for me.

Subject:	Re: WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 13 18:58
Author:	Gabrielle

Oh yeah, and only WHITE bras. That too. "Next to skin" which they elaborated on and said that meant UNDER the garmies, (as if we were stupid children who didn't know what 'next to the skin' meant) and WHITE bras only. I confess to wearing uh...other colors.

Subject:	From a TBM temple worker
Date:	May 13 22:20
Author:	duffy

This subject shocked me because frankly, the possibility of wearing a bra under garments was not given to me as an option any more than drinking beer was given as an option for following the WoW. So I emailed my TBM friend who works at the DC temple once a week (and has been doing so for years). Here's what she told me:

"I was taught the same thing as you when I went through the temple. [Garments against the skin, bra on top]

I have heard no formal instruction on this, but I was told by other workers a few weeks ago that there is no longer instruction given to women about how to wear their bras with their garments. Like I said, I have not heard this from anyone in authority but it goes along with the whole thing that's been going on in the temple and in the church in general--a lot less instruction, and a lot more relying on the Spirit. In fact, a lot of questions asked of the temple presidency are answered by telling the asker to go to the Lord and ask."

Subject:	Was told whichever way was comfortable...
Date:	May 13 22:24
Author:	Val

But I think that was only because I was nursing and a sobbing mess...

Laie Hawaii, 2004

As a sidenote.. my mother was in the room and almost went ballistic because she was told she had to wear her garments close to her skin. She later told me I should ignore the temple matron and do it the "right" way, like her.

Subject:

Bra over, St. George, 1970 n/t

Subject:

Bra over garmmies, Oakland, 1970! They said it and I did it back then. n/t

Subject:	Re: WOMEN POLL: Temple instructions and the wearing of garments
Date:	May 13 23:28
Author:	devashoe

Washington D.C. temple,1979....her exact words were: "If you wear a bra you should wear it over the garments."
which instruction happily reinforced my desire to not wear bras, haha.

Subject:

Bra Over; LA - 1988 n/t

Subject:	My mother was told bra over, SLC Temp, 1978....my grandma...
Date:	May 13 23:45
Author:	$.02

...was told the same thing when she went through the temple, don't know what year, but the Jordan River....and she was also told not to wash her garments with anything else or put them on the floor, ever.

Subject:	My mom, bra over the garments, SLC 1969.
Date:	May 14 00:41
Author:	Evelyn

I never saw my mom without her bra over her garments. Also she only wore white bras, and she stored the dirty garments in white pillowcases in the back of her closet...one pillowcase for dad's, one for hers. She always went into a private room to nurse her babies, so I never knew how she accomplished that. I can imagine that nursing must have been miserable in garments.

I remember my dad would cut the "sacred" markings out of their worn out garments and save them in a box in his top drawer until he had accumulated enough to make a tiny little bonfire with them. He told me that burning was the only safe way to dispose of them. Burning would "keep our sacred symbols from getting into the hands of the enemy". I could never imagine what the enemy would want to do with a bunch of polyester fabric scraps...or who the enemy was, for that matter.

Oh, I recall once seeing my paternal grandmother getting dressed. She wore her white bra over her garments too. I just assumed I would do the same when I grew up.

The first married woman I ever saw NOT wearing garments was my cousin's wife. I noticed through the back of her blouse that she was only wearing a bra. The idea of a married woman NOT wearing garments shocked me to my core. My immediate assumption: she was a complete slut, and my cousin deserved SOOO much better.

Strange how my mind worked back then. Sigh.

Subject:

Provo Temple, 2002, "Garments to be worn next to skin." No mention about the floor..n/t

13. Non-Mormon and Garments	15. Temple Divorces
19. Feel Ugly in Temple Clothing?	32. The Changing Temple
33. First Time to the Temple	42. Washing and Anointings
44. Stopped wearing garments	66. Secret or Sacred?
127 Temple Marriage Ceremony	155 New Names Given in the Temple
165 Not allowed to the Temple Wedding	169 Can Temple Ordinances be Changed?
234 Changing Rules? Temple Marriages	238 She Can't Stand The Temple
243 Temple Hype Versus Reality	285 First Time to Temple II
288. Protestant Minister Pre-1990 Endowment	293 Excluded from Children's Wedding
301 Speaking Publicly about the Temple	306 Temples are Running out of Names
331 The Temple Endowment not Changed per Apologist	339 Temple Marriage vs. Traditional
359 Canceling a Temple Sealing	366 Naked Touching in the Temple?
371 Young Women Dress up in Mother's Temple Wedding Gown	382 Excluded from Children's Mormon Temple Wedding II
474. My Mother Denies Making Motions of Slitting her Throat in the Temple Prior to 1990	475. My Father had to Pay $4000 to the Church to Attend My Wedding
478. Mormon Doctrine: Women Must Wear Bras over Garments?