|Subject:||An East German tyrant expresses trust in Thomas S. Monson, who comes bearing gifts . . .|
|Date:||Aug 29, 2007|
was the cruel tyrant of East Germany. Thomas Monson is a Mormon
Also includes: Communism vs. the United Order
|In another thread, poster "Rubicon" asks
"Do you think the LDS Church would side with a corrupt government that started abusing its citizens? . . .
"The [Mormon] Church is organized and has a large number of unquestioning, 'do-anything-for-the-leaders' population base. The Church has detailed records on its membership. The Church is a dictator's wet dream and all a dictator would have to do is get a-hold of Gordo or whoever is in charge and say, 'Can you help us?'
"With the corruption I see in the [Mormon] Church and the power hungry nature of its leaders, I see the potential for the Church to align itself with other corrupt organizations that thrive on keeping people in line, dumbed down, and working for the cause.
"Think Nazi Germany here."
Indeed, think even more recently about Germany here.
Think post-Nazi East Berlin.
Think First Presidency counselor Thomas Monson dancing with dictators.
Monson showed the world that he can play footsies with Commie thugs better than prize-winning partners on the BYU Ballroom Dance Team can glide their way into your hearts.
Why care if your waltz buddy is a murdering Communist dictator, as long as you're making money for Mormon entrepreneurs and providing handshaking photo ops with LDS Cult leaders anxious to set up a prophetless, profit-making shop in your country?
Exhibit A in this regard: Monson's diabolical dance with East Germany's devil and Soviet-backed henchman, Erich Honecker.
For those who may not be familiar with the professional "accomplishments" of Comrade Honecker, below is a brief synopsis:
"In 1961 Honecker was in charge of the building of the Berlin Wall. In 1971, he initiated a political power struggle that led, with Soviet support, to himself becoming the [German Democratic Republic's] new leader . . . During the 1980s, when Mikhail Gorbachev began his reforms, he remained a hard-line Communist. But popular protest led to his resignation on October 18, 1989, and he was replaced by [a] short-lived successor . . . .
"From 1989 until 1993, Honecker avoided prosecution over Cold War crimes, specifically the 192 deaths of those trying to escape over the Berlin Wall."
". . . [Following his fall] from power . . . after 18 years, Honecker was extradited to Germany from Moscow, where he fled to escape manslaughter charges linked to deaths of defectors at the Berlin Wall. But the trial collapsed in 1993 due to Honecker's terminal illness."
Oh, but brothers and sisters in the glorious restored Gospel of Jesus Cash Christ, let's not get hung up in the brutal, bloody details.
Let's put an end to all the negativity and send in the First Presidency to warmly cement a deal with the Communists--against the backdrop of the cold cement of the Berlin Wall.
Monson, representing LDS, Inc., eagerly flew to East Germany to schmooze the Russian-backed tyrant and shake Honecker's hand, stained though it was with the blood of innocents.
Apparently it's acceptable in the minds of money-grubbing Mormons if Monson flirts with a cold-blooded killer and tyrant like Honecker, as long as it helps push product line.
Enter ever-ready Mormon manufacturers of pretty figurines and other sacred knickknacks eager to note on their commercial website that Mormon Mafioso Monson gave Communist Criminal Honecker one of their own celestially-crafted creations.
The company "Hansen Classics," which produces the porcelain family figurines so prevalent in LDS hearth and home, made this sales pitch, heralding an October 1988 photograph showing Monson and Honecker in notorious kiss-up mode:
"President Thomas S. Monson, second [counselor in the] Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints shakes hands with East German state and party leader Erich Honecker. President Monson presented Honecker Friday with a gift sculpture, 'In The Family Circle,' and praised the East German government for its CORPORATION [yes, that's an actual typo, emphasis added] with Church members."
Monson later attempted to justify his consciousless courting of Communist East German butchers in the name of getting a cash-producing Mormon temple up and running behind the Iron Curtain (along with Mormon missionaries peddling the streets of East Berlin looking for new tithe-paying members to rope in).
In a sickening sermon entitled, "Thanks Be to God," Monson waxed rhaposodic in rationalization for playing footsie with the totalitarian thug Honecker, rejoicing in retelling how he presented this notorious mass murdererer with Mormon porcelain dolls, while simultaneously assuring Honecker that good Mormon East Germans would loyally and meekly follow the commands of their godless Communist leaders.
Recalling his glad-handing of Honecker, Monson said:
" . . . [I]t was back to Berlin for the crucial meetings with the head of the nation, even Chairman Erich Honecker.
"That special morning the sunlight bathed the city of Berlin. It had been raining all night, but now beauty prevailed. We were driven to the chambers of the chief representatives of the government.
"Beyond the exquisite entry to the building, we were greeted by Chairman Honecker. We presented to him the statuette 'First Step,' depicting a mother helping her child take its first step toward its father. He was highly pleased with the gift. He then escorted us into his private council room. There, around a large round table, we were seated. Others at the table included Chairman Honecker and his deputies of government.
"Chairman Honecker began, 'We know members of your Church believe in work; you’ve proven that. We know you believe in the family; you’ve demonstrated that. We know you are good citizens in whatever country you claim as home; we have observed that. The floor is yours. Make your desires known.'
"I began, 'Chairman Honecker, at the dedication and open house for the temple in Freiberg, 89,890 of your countrymen stood in line, at times up to four hours, frequently in the rain, that they might see a house of God.
"In the city of Leipzig, at the dedication of the stake center, 12,000 people attended the open house.
"In the city of Dresden there were 29,000 visitors; in the city of Zwickau, 5,300. And every week of the year 1,500 to 1,800 people visit the temple grounds in the city of Freiberg. They want to know what we believe. We would like to tell them that we believe in honoring and obeying and sustaining the law of the land.
"We would like to explain our desire to achieve strong family units. These are but two of our beliefs. We cannot answer questions, and we cannot convey our feelings, because we have no missionary representatives here as we do in other countries. The young men and young women whom we would like to have come to your country as missionary representatives would love your nation and your people.
"More particularly, they would leave an influence with your people which would be ennobling. Then we would like to see young men and young women from your nation who are members of our Church serve as missionary representatives in many nations, such as in America, in Canada, and in a host of others. They will return better prepared to assume positions of responsibility in your land.”
"Chairman Honecker then spoke for perhaps thirty minutes, describing his objectives and viewpoints and detailing the progress made by his nation. At length, he smiled and addressed me and the group, saying, 'We know you. We trust you. We have had experience with you. Your missionary request is approved.'
"My spirit literally soared out of the room. The meeting was concluded. As we left the beautiful government chambers, Elder Russell Nelson turned to me and said, 'Notice how the sunshine is penetrating this hall. It’s almost as though our Heavenly Father is saying, ‘I am pleased.’
"The black darkness of night had ended. The bright light of day had dawned. The gospel of Jesus Christ would now be carried to the millions of people in that nation. Their questions concerning the Church will be answered, and the Kingdom of God will go forth.
"As I reflect on these events, my thoughts turn to the Master’s words, 'In nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled, save those who confess not his hand in all things.' (D&C 59:21.) I confess the hand of God in the miraculous events pertaining to the Church in the German Democratic Republic."
How tender, how touching, how tortured.
Honecker's death on May 29, 1994 (occuring, ironically enough, mere hours apart from that of Mormonism's notoriously anti-Communist president Ezra Taft Benson), is noted on the "LDS Library" website with a reminder of Honecker's actual contributions to inhumanity--acts which Monson conveniently failed to mention in his sermon singing the praises of the Communist leader:
"Erich Honecker, former head of the German Democratic Republic, passed away today at the home of his daughter in the land of Chile. Erich Honecker was the principal architect of the Berlin Wall, which was built to stem the outflow of freedom-loving people and skilled artisans from East Germany, their desire being to reside in the western portion of Germany where a democratic government led the people.
"Ruthless tactics were devised to prevent anyone from crossing the Wall--these tactics including death without trial administered by the guards who carefully patrolled and monitored the area leading up to the Wall from the East German side."
At the funeral of Honecker's nemesis, Ezra Taft Benson, even Gordon B. Hinckley had to admit just how brutal of despot Honecker was; yet, apparently Honecker was not brutal enough for the Mormon Church to defy his tyrannical reign or to call upon East German Latter-day Saints to rise up against the ungodly oppression of the Communist state. Confessed Hinckley:
“I cannot imagine two men [Honecker and Benson] so different in the causes they espoused, in what they did for mankind, and in the philosophies by which they guided their lives.
“Erich Honecker was the iron-fisted Communist ruler of East Germany, the feared and despised builder of the Berlin Wall, the practitioner of the godless dogma of oppression and slavery to the state. He died a refugee from his native land. He was able to leave his country and thus escape prosecution and possible execution because of the serious condition of his health.
“On the other hand, Ezra Taft Benson was the fearless and outspoken enemy of Communism, a man who with eloquence and conviction preached the cause of human freedom, one who loved and worshipped the Prince of Peace, the Redeemer of mankind. He died in the love of people across the world, a man respected and reverenced, a man for whose well-being millions constantly prayed.”
How moving--how hypocritically so.
Just how moved was Monson to speak up against the evils of totalitarian rule in East Germany?
Funny that Monson didn't mention that inconvenient side of life in East Germany to Honecker--or, for that matter, to Mormons whom Monson admonished to faithfully follow their murderous sleader so that one day, too, they could return from LDS missions better prepared to obediently serve their German state masters.
Instead, Monson wanted to reassure Honecker that good German Mormons would do all in their power to obey the laws of his Communist land.
So, Comrade Erich, here's a fine porcelain figurine, courtesy of the Mormon Church--along with a solemn promise from our ever-devout, lock-step German members to do exactly as they're told.
Ich bin ein Honecker follower.
Oh, and while we're at it, can we build a temple in your godless country, convert your citizens to our Christless cult and siphon off their hard-earned money?
So sickening was Monson’s dancing-with-dictators routine that even some faithful Mormons had a difficult time stomaching it.
As LDS writer Eugene England reluctantly observed in an essay entitled, "Give Yourself a Christmas Present:"
"President Monson seems more forgiving of the Communists than I'm afraid I could be. It is a little difficult, as he describes the delicate, necessarily secret negotiations that began as early as 1978 and eventually led to the first temple in a Communist nation, to reflect that such delicate diplomacy was perhaps the reason Tom Rogers was asked not to continue to produce for awhile his excellent play about the young German Mormon from Hamburg, Helmut Huebener, who in 1942 rebelled against a tyrannous dictatorship--Hitler's--and was executed.
"And it is a little difficult to read President Monson's account of his genial meeting, along with other Church leaders, in October 1988 with Erich Honecker, the dictator, under Russian direction, of the GDR . . . not far behind Hitler and Stalin in betrayal and even murder of his own people (who only two years after that meeting overthrew him and put him in jail).
"President Monson reports that Honecker praised the Mormons because 'we taught our members to obey and sustain the law of the land and to be good citizens, that we emphasize the family, and that our Church members were ideal citizens of that land.' . . . I'm not entirely certain I could want to be an ideal citizen of Mr. Honecker's utopian dictatorship."
In the end, however, even England--like so many "good" Mormons--went along with Monson in justifying giving in to the Dark Side for Joseph Smith's sake:
"But the fact remains that President Monson's persistent, forgiving geniality and his faithful, repeated prayer to God, 'Wilt Thou intervene in the governmental affairs,' succeeded where our own government's animosity and threats had not, and the faith of the German Saints was indeed rewarded--not just with the full blessings of the Gospel but, by 1990, with freedom from tyranny and uniting of the separate parts of the Church in Germany along with reunification under a non-Communist government.
"That was a miracle that many of us in the Church prayed for for many years because the Brethren asked us to, though I confess I did so without much faith. But it did indeed happen, and the prayers and faith of a prophet and the German people were, I believe, important factors."
Excuse me while I relieve myself of my lunch.
Follow the prophet, follow the Party, follow the money.
All is well, all is well.
In the end, dictators of a feather flock together.
The Mormon Cult meets Godless Communism--and a meeting of the minds ensues.
|Subject:||Brilliant simile Benson.|
|Date:||Aug 29 02:47|
|"Monson showed the world that he can play
footsies with Commie thugs better than prize-winning partners on the BYU
Ballroom Dance Team can glide their way into your hearts."
Just about laughed my butt off when I read that.
That's gold Steve! Thanks.
|Subject:||Isn't it wonderful, marvelous, precious?|
|Date:||Aug 29 17:41|
|You see, Mormons can twist anything into a
"righteous cause"--no matter the circumstances. TBMs will
glowingly say, "Look, we were able to break past the Iron curtain
and do our missionary work."
Never mind that to do so, he was probably not likely to get many true converts, and his real motive was not religion but enslavement into a money cult, which is what Mormonism really is.
Meanwhile, if Monson were a true prophet, he would have foreseen the wall coming down anyway or been instrumental in its coming down, but I think it was more the Catholic pope who was involved in pressuring East European governments, and spoke out on their lack of religions freedom (which Mormons would never have done--always to chicken to state their real aim: Monson could only claim to want to "strengthen East European families". Ha! We all know that Mormonism usually ends up dividing families, unless all participants are willing robots, which they usually aren't.)
|Subject:||belohnter Glaube? oder grausame Politik?|
|Date:||Aug 29 09:17|
|I did my years of Morg servitude in the former East
Germany. I thought about this unseemly side to what we considered a
miracle. I just couldn't understand how Morg leaders could praise
American revolutionaries for getting miffed about the price of tea and
taking up arms. But, on the other hand, admonishing their saintly
followers to be good citizens in this opressive system. I mentioned this
in a discussion at BYU and the prof. remarked: "Some people have a
problem with that," and went on another track.
Ultimately the churches, including some LDS members, played a constructive role in bringing the regime down. No thanks to Tommy.
Other members, however, remarked on the beautiful similarities between the Communist system and the LDS Church. I would have to agree that there are similarities, just ugly ones.
|Subject:||isn't it interesting|
|Date:||Aug 29 11:23|
|how its OK for God to make deals with the devil and to lie and obscure truth in order to further His work?|
|Subject:||Re: An East German tyrant expresses trust in Thomas S. Monson, who comes bearing gifts . . .|
|Date:||Aug 29 11:41|
|"The black darkness of night had ended. The
bright light of day had dawned. The gospel of Jesus Christ would now be
carried to the millions of people in that nation. Their questions
concerning the Church will be answered, and the Kingdom of God will go
So tell us Tommy M., just how many million East Germans have joined the Mormon church since this miracle?
|Subject:||What was ETB's opinion on the United Order?|
|Date:||Aug 29 14:37|
|Subject:||Ezra Taft Benson on Communism vs. the United Order: Attempting Distinctions Without Differences|
|Date:||Aug 29 21:04|
|Some have inquired regarding the views of Ezra Taft
Benson on Communism, vis-a-vis his take on the United Order.
To understand what he considered the vast differences between the two, below are some of his thoughts on how they supposedly diverge.
(As one attempts to determine the alleged unbridgeable dicotomies between the two systems, keep if mind, if you will, Karl Marx's definition of Communism: "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs").
First, how ETB described Communism:
--Communism Destroys the Right to Private Property
"I consider ourselves at war with international Communism, which is committed to the destruction of our government, our right of property, and our freedom . . ." (Ezra Taft Benson, "The Proper Role of Government," 1968)
--Communism Is in League with Socialism
"No true Latter-day Saint and no true American can be a Socialist or a Communist or support programs leading in that direction." (Ezra Taft Benson, "Title of Liberty," p. 190)
--Communism is a Collectivistic Socialist Strategy
"We must keep the people informed that Collectivism, another word for Socialism, is a part of the communist strategy. Communism is essentially Socialism." (Ezra Taft Benson, "This Nation Shall Endure," p. 90)
--Communism Enslaves Individuals and Depends on Government Intervention to Operate
"I am for freedom and against slavery. I am for social progress and against socialism. . . . I am for the private competitive market and against unnecessary governmental intervention."
--Communism is an Immoral Doctrine Rooted in Expediency and Force
"We believe in a moral code. Communism denies innate right or wrong.
"As W. Cleon Skousen has said in his timely book, 'The Naked Communist': The Communist 'has convinced himself that nothing is evil which answers the call of expediency.' This is a most damnable doctrine. People who truly accept such a philosophy have neither conscience nor honor.
"Force, trickery, lies, broken promises are wholly justified."
(Ezra Taft Benson, General Conference address, Salt Lake City, Utah, 1960)
Now, how ETB defined the United Order (the United Order being the tool through which the Law of Consecration is implemented):
--The Law of Consecration Requires Giving All One Possesses to the Mormon Church
". . . [T]he Law of Consecration [means that' . . . one's time, talents, strength, property, and money are given up to the Lord for the express purpose of building up the Kingdom of God and establishing Zion on the Earth. Or, as we read in Doctrine and Covenants 105:5, 'Zion cannot be built up unless it is by the principles of the law of the Celestial Kingdom.'"
--The Law of Consecration Has Been Misrepresented by Enemies of Mormonism and Misunderstood by LDS Church Members Themselves
"Much has been written about this law and its attempted implementations in the early history of the Church; and much deception has taken root, even among some of our members, because of misinformed opinion or misguided interpretations."
--The Law of Consecration is Not an Alternative to Capitalism or a Form of Communal Living
"Some view it as merely an economic alternative to capitalism or the free enterprise system, others as an outgrowth of early communal experiments in America.
"Such a view is not only shortsighted but tends to diminish in importance a binding requirement for entrance into the Celestial Kingdom."
--The Law of Consecration is Divinely Revealed and is Not a Human Economic Test Effort
"The Law of Consecration is a Celestial law, not an economic experiment."
--The United Order is the Vehicle for Carrying Out the Law of Consecration, Operating on the Premise That All One Owns is God's and is to be Turned Over to the Mormon Church
"The vehicle for implementing the Law of Consecration is the United Order.
"The basic principle underlying the United Order is that everything we have belongs to the Lord; and, therefore, the Lord may call upon us for any and all of our property, because it belongs to him.
"The United Order was entered by 'a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken' (D&C 42:30), according to the scriptures.
"In other words, an individual conveys his titles to all his property to the Church through the bishop. The property becomes the property of the Church. You read about this in the forty-second section of the Doctrine and Covenants."
--The United Order Determines How Much Property is Needed by Individuals for Personal and Familial Support
"The bishop then deeds back to the consecrator by legal instrument the amount of personal property required by the individual for the support of himself and his family, as the Lord declares, 'according to his circumstances and his wants and needs' (D&C 51:3).
"This becomes the private, personal property of the individual to develop as he sees fit. It is his stewardship."
--The United Order Takes from Individuals Surplus Private Property That is Not Deemed Necessary for Personal or Familial Support and Turns It Over to the Poor and Needy
"When an individual produces a profit or surplus more than is needful for the support of himself and his family, the surplus is then placed in the bishops storehouse to administer to the poor and the needy."
--The United Order is Not for Slackers or Sinners
"Under the United Order, idleness has no place, and greed, selfishness, and covetousness are condemned. The United Order may therefore operate with only a righteous people."
--The United Order is Not Communistic Because Everyone is Treated Equally in Terms of Assessment of Individual/Family Wants and Needs
"It has been erroneously concluded by some that the United Order is both communal and communistic in theory and practice because the revelations speak of equality.
"Equality under the United Order is not economic and social leveling as advocated by some today.
"Equality, as described by the Lord, is 'equal[ity] according to [a man's] family, according to his circumstances and his wants and needs' (D&C 51:3).
--The United Order is Not Communal Because It Operates on the Principle of Private Ownership of Property
"Is the United Order a communal system? Emphatically not. It never has been and never will be. It is 'intensely individualistic.'
"Does the United Order eliminate private ownership of property? No. 'The fundamental principle of this system [is] the private ownership of property' (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Conference Report, October 1942, p. 57).
(Ezra Taft Benson, "A Vision and a Hope for the Youth of Zion," Brigham Young University, 12 April 1977, at
Talk about distinctions without differences.
Communism and the United Order both, in the name of supreme authority, take personal property away from individuals and return that which is deemed to be necessary for legitimate personal support, as determined by the decisions of authoritarian hierarchal leadership.
The only real difference between the two systems is that Communism does it in the name of the Almighty State and the United Order does it in the name of the Almighty God.
My grandfather said, "Communism is essentially Socialism."
In reality, the United Order is essentially Communism.
|Subject:||Re: So exactly *what* are the mormons "bringing" to all the newly opened mishie territories?|
|Date:||Aug 30 23:52|
|Here's what they're bringing: naive individuals, and
yes-men (and women) who will blindly do whatever their leaders tell them
What government doesn't want that?
|Subject:||Church in the eastern bloc under Communism|
|Date:||Sep 03 19:03|
|I don't know how the church was run in East Germany
under the communists. But in Poland the secret police had agents
assigned to infiltrate Mormonism and keep an eye on the organization.
Those poor agents must have been bored out of their minds as they
attended all the meetings and listened ad nausieum about Joseph Smith's
restored gospel. Here they were supposed to be spies like James Bond but
they got stuck with a boring surveillance gig. A few of them were called
of God to serve as Branch Presidents. I guess the Lord's Mission
Presidents Spencer Condie and Dennis Neuenschwander (both became GAs)
got revelations that these men were wanted for these posts. The Lord
forgot to tell the MP(s) that these new Branch Presidents were really
government spies. And the spies sure kept their eye on Mormonism to make
sure that it wasn't a threat to the Communists. However around 1989 they
went inactive as budget cuts at the spy agency took their toll and the
meetings & promises of salvation weren't enough to keep them in.
In thinking of Poland and the need to preserve history. I have a request for all who read this. Do not burn any of your books that show the picture of the 1990 Warsaw chapel dedication. The Polish church leader conducting the service with Apostle Russell Nelson seated behind him was a convicted child molester. Somehow the Spirit overlooked this indescretion of his as the missionaries got him baptized in the late 1980s and he quickly rose up into a leadership position. Then suddenly in 1993 he stole lots of money from many church members and others and all his crimes became known. He even used tithing money to purchase sex toys from mail order sex shops. And worst of all is how he used the chapel as a sanctuary where he could safely have sex with a child-boy he "adopted" without his probation officer knowing.
He was most certainly excommunicated. On my trip to the Freiberg temple all the workers asked me about him and what a wonderful man they thought he was. I asked for an interview with the temple president Jiri Snedleflor after talking to a few workers about this man. President Snedleflor told me that Salt Lake had sent him a fax without explanation that this Polish man had been excommunicated. Whew!! But apparently the church publications department didn't get the memo when they put together a Sunday school book around 2000 about the history of the restoration. Inside there is a picture of this man conducting the dedication session of the Warsaw chapel, the first LDS meetinghouse in Eastern Europe (not counting Germany) after WW2.
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church www.exmormon.org