|Subject:||How do Molly Mormons cope with all the kids?|
|Date:||Jul 22, 2010|
|The most active TBM [true believing Mormon] I know is pregnant with #9. She's
mid-forties, like me. I have no children and cannot IMAGINE what it must be
like to have that many demands on you every day. The oldest two are out of
the house, but she still has plenty left at home and is also RS Prez and
How come there aren't more Mormon Andrea Yates cases?
|Date:||Jul 22 14:00|
|Author:||anon this time|
|My MIL had 10, the last one at 46! She suffers from
depression and will not admit it. My dh [dear husband] recalls her getting a little
physically rough with him and his sibs. I'm not saying that it is her fault, but it makes me wonder why many of her kids are mentally and
emotionally messed up and the family in not very close at all. As a child,
it must be a real bummer to have to vie for love and affection from a parent
because there are so many of you. I feel I was a much better mother to my
two because I only had the two!
To answer your question, how do they do it? They don't. They screw up parenthood. JMHO
|Subject:||I'm number 4 of 5|
|Date:||Jul 22 14:06|
|...and I was neglected and forgotten. My oldest sister was the golden child that went to BYU. When the time came for me to go to college, my parents said, don't even think about it cuz we can't afford it. My parents would forget to pick me up when they had promised, would leave me places like the grocery store because they forgot me. None of us are close.|
|Subject:||i'm 4 of 5 too|
|Date:||Jul 22 16:17|
|And your comments are similar to my experience. One probable difference is that I was the first boy in the male-oriented mo system. My post mission apostasy was a major cataclysm in my parents minds, but fortunately validated my only vocal exmo older sis. I didn't really get raised other than food and shelter. I loved that I was able to show a thorough understanding of all things mo, and still come around and declare it fraudulent.|
|Subject:||Re: How do Molly Mormons cope with all the kids?|
|Date:||Jul 22 14:11|
|The literal 'Clinical' name for this amongst the
psychologists and psychotherapists is "Zion Mothers" and the disease it
causes is manifest in the anesthesia prescribed or recommended.
4 out of 5 doctors recommend a lobotomy or should ;) So ask your doctor if being part of a cult that steals your time, talents and everything with which you've been blessed is right for you? :)
|Subject:||Two of my sisters had kids in the double digits|
|Date:||Jul 22 14:19|
|I think they just had the temperament for it. Besides, after five or so, the chaos and all-consuming nature of mothering probably didn't get that much worse. It just become their "normal." And the older ones helped raise the younger ones.|
|Subject:||My mom came from a family of eight.|
|Date:||Jul 22 14:25|
|She used to say that she thought her mom took a
greater interest in her flower garden than she did her children. Maybe
that's where grandmom found some peace and quiet.
My mom shocked me once when she said that she was close to some of her siblings but not others. I only have one sibling, a brother, and it's very important for me to be close to him. I couldn't imagine it otherwise.
Mom also dropped out of high school. She left her home and got a job. She said that at a certain point she felt like she was just one more mouth to feed.
I have sometimes wondered at what point (in terms of number of children,) family cohesion falls apart, and children get signifigantly less attention from their parents and feel less bonded to all of their siblings. I suspect, depending on the parents, that it's somewhere in the range of above 4-6 kids total.
|Subject:||I may be remembering wrong, but Moose Jaw, SK|
|Date:||Jul 22 14:25|
|I'm sure there was a family there, just outside of town, to had 15 kids? Mother was 50-ish and pregnant. The way it appeared to me was that the older kids were parenting the younger kids.|
|Date:||Jul 22 14:38|
|I was the oldest daughter and ended up doing
everything for the 5 younger children. I changed thousands of diapers, fed
them, got them ready for school and church, drove them to school and church,
did most of the housework, etc. I didn't get to have a childhood. This whole
time my mother was sleeping in til noon, eating her feelings and taking her
anger out on us.
On the other hand, my TBM SIL has a sister who is pregnant with her 9th, and said that she does just fine with the chaos. Her husband is a surgeon, so they have no problem supporting them. I think these instances are rare however. I have heard of way too many families with lots of children who are unhappy, abused, depressed, detached, etc. It makes me sad.
|Date:||Jul 22 14:51|
|I have seen a couple of different things going on.
Granted, most of the TBM women somehow do an okay job, but at the expense of
themselves. The others seem to either be depressed or a borderline or
I had to call CPS on one of my TBM friends for hitting her son on the head. She is a mean mom and there is no way around it. Before I witnessed that, she lectured me on the merits of being a "love and logic" parent, while I saw her has neglecting her kids. She screams at them constantly and it was not a happy home. Never will you ever meet a former courgarette who gives off the image of perfections more though. I was SHOCKED when I saw her hit her child.
Another of my TBM friends married someone who is closeted gay and yes, he really is gay. She is onto child number 4 and of course isn't 30 yet. She is so depressed and has gotten to the point that she barely talks. She doesn't pretend to be happy though. Her kids have many accidents and frequently get into things like medicine and have to go to the emergency room. The lights are off AND no one is home and she just brought another one into this existence. He also dropped out of school and is working barely more than minimum wage to support them.
The last is trying to conceive child number 3 and is surprised she isn't getting pregnant right away, but has an eating disorder. Surprisingly, she seems to have it the most together out of the others, but she married very well and is at least honest about stuff. She doesn't get better or try to get help for her disorder though and that has to eventually leak onto the home life.
And these are the TBM friends I have the patience to still deal with (except for the abuser. . .so I'm down to two). Don't even ask about the others.
Basically, they are unhappy and I think that's how they cope.
Now the ones who are doing an okay job, don't seem to know their kids that well. When you have 7+, how can you with all of life's other stresses. I have an example of that kind of mormon woman. My ex-fiance came from a 9 kid huge TBM family. He was raised well and his dad is an attorney. The kids seem to have all turned out pretty well. He's now an attorney himself. However, he was a very unhappy person. He's so shy and quiet though that his family never knew. They consistently gave him weird presents that had nothing to do with his interests for Christmases and birthdays. When I would ask him about it, he would say, "Oh they just mixed me up with ______ (a brother) again. It happnes all the time. No worries." No worries? I'm thinking that if this happens enough time growing up, it could lead to some bad self-esteem like my ex suffered from. He was so lost in the middle of that family, that he now has a complex about simple things like being able to order his own food when he goes out to eat. I had to do it for him and he was 27.
|Subject:||I was the oldest of six, and I'll tell you what they do.|
|Date:||Jul 22 17:08|
|They would just take off for the entire day and leave me or my sister to watch a butt load of hyperactive kids. They wouldn't say when they would be back and left no contact number. We had all kinds of disasters occur, obviously. As an adult, I used to see this sort of thing all the time with Mormon parents of a lot of children. It's a quantity over quality issue.|
|Subject:||Family in one ward I attended had 14 kids. The older ones basically raised the younger ones. Mom|
|Date:||Jul 23 02:04|
|[Mom] had a nervous breakdown and so did a couple of the
older kids. One of the boys was too anxiety ridden to serve a mission. The
older ones were burned out from child rearing before they were raised
On my mission, a member in one ward used the missionaries as free baby sitters. When our turn came, she handed us the baby and walked out the door without any contact information, supplies or money. Parents were gone all day and she left us no food and no diapers. I guess she expected us to pay for the food and stuff. Anyway, we ended up diapering the baby in a dish towel and feeding the kids whatever we could find in cans. They didn't have any year's supply either. The kids got things like stale cheese, olives, saltines, and water and we got nothing. That's ALL there was.
I think that's sort of the same deal with Sarah Palin's daughter. She's going to marry her baby's daddy while he is 20 and he does not even a high school diploma. Why? Because the poor girl was probably raised by part-time parents while they dumped her siblings on her to raise. I think that's also why she was sleeping with her boyfriend at age 17. She was lonely and alone and still is. And as she now struggles alone with a baby at age 19, no husband, and parents who are flying all over the country making loads of money on speaking tours, she is just plain lonely and depressed. The poor thing has no role model for parenting and no one to be with. I really feel sorry for Bristol Palin. Wishing her luck in a rotten situation.
|Subject:||This is the BIGGEST factor in why I purposely waited until I was older to have children...I am|
|Date:||Jul 23 02:28|
|Author:||SilkRose (not logged in0|
|almost 28 years old, and pregnant with my first
I waited until I had an education, served in the military for 6 years, traveled, got my partying/drinking out of my system, etc. Life experience.
I am READY to be a mom financially, emotionally, physically, mentally, and spiritually.
I am the oldest of one real sister, two real brothers, 4 step-brothers, and one step sister. Needless to say, the house was always full. From about the age of 9, I babysate BY MYSELF for several hours. I was watching the kids overnight and weekends by the time I was 12. Granted, it was so my mom could attend college and get an education and work full-time.
However, it made me realize that I did NOT want kids for a LONG time. I knew I wanted to wait until I was older, and only have 2.
Many of my friends got prego VERY young. Most of them had 3-4 kids by 21. They are now nearing thirty, and their children are pre-teens. NOW, they decide they want to party and drink and "go out". NOT THE TIME for this crap. They feel that they missed out on their entire twenties experiences. I feel so sorry for them...but we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions...good or bad.
|Subject:||Re:That right there is the reason !!!|
|Date:||Jul 23 05:08|
|We have never let our oldest two change diapers, give
baths of feed their brothers. We have 6 and our oldest is a 15 year old girl
and I am very proud that she does not change diapers....I think a few weeks
ago she helped when I had HORRID flu and my hubby was working .... She made
peanut butter sandwiches and watched show with them for me . She is a child
and it is not her job . They are our kids ..but my inlaws oh hell yeah they
get the younger ones ready for school. INSANE!!! Our oldest is a straight A
student ...but being dyslexic she has to work soo much harder than other
kids to get those grades ...if she had to help do my job she wouldn't do as
well. Sorry to go on a rant but this whole thing is my pet peeve and I saw
it all the time . It makes lots of us look really bad!
|Subject:||Re: How do Molly Mormons cope with all the kids?|
|Date:||Jul 23 02:47|
|For the first few kids they use Prozac and Zanax to
help them get thought their day.
As the older kids get old enough to start taking care of the younger ones then the older kids get to be parents to their younger siblings.
It continue as the kids get older until the oldest ones start to leave the house and then they're eventually just a few grown up younger kids left at home to be raised. At this point the parents start picking up the slack again until the youngest are out of the house.
On a side note, my wife has a friend who has 10 children. She always wanted to have 12 but it doesn't look like that will happen. At one time they were living in a 3-bedroom trailer with 5-6 kids. My wife asked her why she wanted to have so many kids and her response was "Having babies is the only thing I do well". My wife told her to find a hobby. Oh, and just to make things fun her husband lost his job EVERY TIME a baby was born.
Wouldn't that be fun ... A house full of hungry kids, a new child and no job.
|Subject:||My philosophy teacher says the greatest evil in religion is the commandment to multiply|
|Date:||Jul 23 04:34|
|and replenish the earth. Overpopulation is killing
And no, there won't be other new planets for Mormons to rule over,
Mother Earth is all there is, folks!
My mother didn't work outside the home, but she left the house to do her Relief Society work, bridge club, book club, luncheon club, garden club, etc. I was left alone to watch and entertain my mentally ill brother. He was older, and his favorite entertainment was to bully and torture ME.
It isn't the number of children, as much as the idea that kids are expendable, life is expendable. They will have more of everything in the Hereafter, including a fresh new body and a fresh new planet.
|Subject:||About Philosophy teachers|
|Date:||Jul 23 08:10|
|We do not tell people what to think. We tell them how
to think. So I disagree with what your philosophy Professor has done. He/She
is telling people what to think.
I know. I teach Philosophy.
The best thing you can do to help people leave religion is to help them learn to think for themselves. If you convince somebody to leave, they might leave. But as soon as they get out on their own, they can be convinced to come back in.
If you teach them how to think, on the other hand, they will make more permanent decisions. If they figure out Mormonism on their own, the decision to leave will be theirs.
I don't know if everybody is like this. Maybe some people need a bucket of cold water thrown over their heads or a kick in the butt before they take action. I needed to learn how to think and evaluate information on my own. I figured out Mormonism on my own with info that was available on the net, not because somebody "proved" to me that Mormonism was not what it claims to be. And once I made the decision to leave, it was final.
Maybe that's just me.
|Subject:||You sound like...|
|Date:||Jul 23 10:51|
|the philosophy teachers I have known.
They were not giving me answers; they were helping me find more questions.
Thank you for being a teacher; beware the hemlock.
|Date:||Aug 02 03:36|
|After having said all that, I really just try to be
like the good professors who motivated me.
|Date:||Jul 23 08:17|
|My dear mother wanted to have babies. She did not want
to raise kids. HUGE difference.
She had way more kids than she was equipped handle.
So when it got too much, she'd cry a lot. Then we'd feel guilty and do a bunch of housework. But we never did it right, so she'd take over everything again. Then she'd get overwhelmed because nobody was helping at home. Then she'd cry and we'd all feel guilty. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
She also needed escapes. She never got a chance to be a teenager. She was too busy having babies. So is it too difficult to imagine that her escapes are things a teenage girl would pick?
She was overwhelmed and underequipped. That's her whole view of parenting. So when her kids started having kids, she kept going on and on about how parenting is so overwhelming and how you need a break. You look tired. You need a break. You look overwhelmed.
She never considered the fact that we had some maturity and experience before having kids.
|Subject:||I understand that many assign parenting duties to some of the older kids|
|Date:||Jul 23 10:59|
|I know of one family with 8 kids. The older kids eventually became responsible for looking after a younger sibling effectively taking on parental responsibilities. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that this is more common than not.|
|Subject:||I'm the oldest in a large family|
|Date:||Jul 23 11:39|
|I was from a previous marriage but was then adopted by
my step father. There was a gap between me and all of the half siblings that
came along later. But then it seemed like my mother was almost always
pregnant or taking care of a baby!
Because of the age difference there was a lot of responsibility that fell on me and even other mothers in the church thought it was too much and unfair. One in particular called me "cinderella".
I remember a lot of chaos and that there seemed to almost ALWAYS be something that needed to be done. My mother was depressed and tired most of the time and us older kids (anyone over toddler age) lived in fear of a grouchy daddy coming home at the end of the day and not finding the house up to his standards of cleanliness.
Most of us lived with fear of his unstable moods and of his abuse but I as the oldest took the brunt of it (which my younger siblings admit as adults). When I found out as a young adult that he wasn't even my biological father then the extreme mistreatment I received made even more sense.
My mother was miserable but felt trapped because she had a large amount of children with this man and was counseled by bishops to STAY with him (?!?!)
I can't even imagine what that must have been like except I guess that she had to just talk herself into believing she was doing the right thing?
As time goes by and I am further removed from that religion I find it increasingly bizarre that she and her husband kept being "inspired" (either through dreams or feelings) and had revelations to keep having babies.
I love my siblings even if I'm not that close to most of them. But some of them are very messed up as a result of the home we grew up in. The one closest to me in age admitted to me once that she was traumatized and in therapy partly as a result of witnessing my abuse (which was more constant and severe.. and sick and twisted) in addition to her own dysfunctional upbringing.
And yet the youngest ones in the family who are now young adults, and our parents, now act as if everything is fine!
It probably helps that they moved to a far away state several years ago. They got the chance to be in a brand new ward with people they didn't know - except for one family that had moved out there before them and were already friends.
The fact that things appear to be so normal now kind of makes my memories surreal and almost unbelievable. My parents are liked and respected so it leaves me questioning sometimes "was it really THAT bad? Or have I been too sensitive?".
(You may now charge me the therapy fee for listening lol)
|Subject:||For several years I was 2nd oldest of seven....|
|Date:||Aug 02 05:08|
|and we took care of ourselves a lot. There really is
no other way. This freaked my wife out a lot when she lived in Utah. She
would get home from school and there would be thirty kids running around in
the neighborhood apparently unsupervised. That reminded me of growing up a
When we were being supervised my step mom tended to be pretty abusive. I thought very poorly of her at the time but now that I have kids I can sympathize to an extent. I don't know what I would do with four more.
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church www.exmormon.org