Subject: What makes Ex-Mormons different than TBMs?
Date: Mar 27 22:14
Author: Deconstructor
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Among the millions of Mormons, there are many who are exposed to information that reveals the church as a fraud.

What do we Ex-Mormons have in common that led us to leave the church, when there are thousands more who know the same things as we do, but manage to stay believers?

For every Ex-Mormon, there are many more people like the TBM lurkers here who get exposed to the SAME damning information about the church. Yet they seem to be able to ignore the facts and stay True Believing Mormons.

Same information, yet some leave the church and others bury their heads in the sand and stay believing.

It's clear from reading our posts here that we all have different lives, beliefs and reactions to things. We Exmos are all very different. I often wonder if we have anything in common.

So what do we have in common that makes us different from the TBMs who know the SAME THINGS we do about Mormonism but still believe?

Subject: they don't open their minds
Date: Mar 27 22:24
Author: ruldx2
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to the possibility that they might be wrong. that's my opinion. they may be told or read facts about JS but the impact is not the same as if you really open your mind to the possibility that you were wrong and study the information with the purpose of finding the truth.

There are other factors too, like how networked a person is to the church through friends, family, perhaps job, church position of responsibility that brings them esteem.

I'm with you though, it's sort of baffling to me that someone could know what JS was really doing and saying and still believe.

Subject: Complicated answer
Date: Mar 27 22:27
Author: Nebularry
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The answer to this question, I think, is somewhat complicted. First, as Paul Kurtz suggests in his book "The Transcendental Temptation", people need to believe in something bigger than themselves. As humans we seem to have an innate desire to belive in or have faith in some kind of power that can guide our lives and help us through the unknown. Once we have adopted a system of beliefs, whether we are born into it or convert to it, it becomes a part of our lifestyle. As you know, Mormonism is superior at blending religious beliefs with lifestyle choices. Finally, we dislike being proven wrong. Nobody likes to discover that he has made a bad choice. It's uncomfortable. It may mean that we will have to change and change is even more uncomfortable. Thus, even when we know full well that our beliefs are bogus we will resist acting on that knowledge because it is too painful and awesome to endure! So we close our eyes, stop our ears and shut down our brains in an effort to avoid the truth. On this board I have read many stories of people who agonized for years before deciding to finally leave the church. It isn't easy. And many, many Mormons would rather stay in a church that they know is false rather than go through the trauma of leaving it.

Subject: I DID bury my head in the sand from the beginning...
Date: Mar 27 22:29
Author: vickilynn
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but I joined the church because my oldest child was 3 and I wanted him to have the experience of going to Sunday school as I had fond memories from my childhood attendance at my hometown Congregational church. My husband and I checked out many churches in the city we had moved to and none of them was what we wanted. When the mishies knocked...well, I wasn't too sure about the BOM, but the "families can be together forever" really got me. I kept going because family is important to me and I wanted to do what was best for them. Little by little I found things out about the church that I didn't agree with but kept going...why did I stop?
MALE PRIESTHOOD man is going to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing or thinking, (I wouldn't let a woman do that to me either)and then think that I am going to be some brood mare in the hereafter...especially when the whole thing is made up!

Subject: My TBM friends / family say it is because of my desire to commit sin
Date: Mar 27 22:37
Author: Dubious
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They say that were it not for my subconscious desire to commit sin, I would feel the spirit and know that the church is true, despite all of the anti-mormon propaganda (I mean "FACTS")

I find this funny... I left the church unnoficially about a year ago. I had my name removed a couple of months ago. However, I still have yet to try alcohol... go to strip clubs... play golf on Sunday... or any other major sin other than not go to church or pay my tithing.

So I guess I am different than TBMs because I don't like to go to church or pay my tithing... Otherwise, I would be able to ignore the lopsided evidence that my lifelong beliefs are based on the fraud of the century.

My brother seems to have the same general disposition as I do, but it doesn't seem that he has caught on yet. I mean, he must not have a strong enough desire to commit sin.

It's an interesting question...

Subject: not all nomos drink, go to strip joints or lie, cheat and steal nt
Date: Mar 27 23:22
Author: vickilynn
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Subject: Hey, quit equating drinking or going to strip clubs,
Date: Mar 28 14:26
Author: tanstaafl
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with bad things like lying and stealing. ;-)

Subject: Re: Yeah, I've had some of my most spiritual...
Date: Mar 28 14:43
Author: SD
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experiences watching strippers. Talk about your burning in the bosom. Okay, maybe the burning is little bit lower on my anatomy, but there is unquestionably a "raising" of my spirit whenever I see a beautiful woman taking it off, and it definitely raises the spirit of my constant personal companion whom I polititely refer to simply as "Mr. Big."

Subject: I'm glad to know you're a modest man also *S* nt
Date: Mar 28 14:45
Author: vickilynn
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Subject: The post before me said that he could "sin" now that he wasn't a MO
Date: Mar 28 14:47
Author: vickilynn
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...I said that just because you're not a MO you don't have to sin, or that you're naturally a "sinner." I'm all for live and let live...and believe me, I've pretty much done it all and whatever anybody wants to do is fine with me *G*

Subject: Thinking
Date: Mar 27 22:42
Author: Cezoram
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Briefly stated, there are thinking Mormons and non-thinking ones (the ones who have handed over their minds and lives to a few manipulating geezers in SLC). The ones who won't think cannot be helped; they prefer the Geezers' Gospel. Of the ones who think, there are those who are brave and/or have little to lose, and come out with flags and trumpets; and there are the others who judge that they have too much to lose, and so have decided to remain and act the part.

Subject: Courage
Date: Mar 27 22:52
Author: Justanotherexmo
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From talking to a few closet doubters, one factor I think is courage. It's a really scary step to go from the world of mormonism where all the rules and duties are spelled out, and the beginning to end is laid out, to the unknown of post-mormonism. There's all the exhortations against doubt that brings fear to the heart of anyone who dares question the teachings of the church. Etc.

And it frankly takes courage to get past that. There are those who have the doubts, even get to the point where they know the church isn't true, or else retreat and bury themselves in mormonism in an attempt to regain a testimony, because they fear the alternative of leaving the church. Their family and friends will reject them. They'll lose their social status and network. For some, they might even lose their job. They'll no longer have easy answers for all the questions of life.

So they stay mormon out of fear.

Subject: Re: What makes Ex-Mormons different than TBMs?
Date: Mar 28 00:43
Author: JoeF
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My brother is a TBM working on his masters in poly-sci. He's completely comfortable with the church's skeletons. I get the impression (and I believe it's because he's spent so much time studying history) that he feels that everybody has skeletons so mother church's are no worse than anyone else's. That same rationalization is why I left the church and have no intention of joining another.

So, we have the same information - but we responded to it in exact opposite ways. Weird, huh?


Subject: I think something happens on a subconscious level.
Date: Mar 28 00:45
Author: Fly
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I think there must be a trigger...something happens, something to make an individual realize that life out of the Church has more to offer than life within it. I think under the surface, we're animals; our animal brains are constantly "doing the math" to maximize our chances for survival and happiness.

Nature doesn't like to waste energy. Nature rewards efficient systems. When a religion conjures up more questions than comforts, when it causes more problems than it solves, and it starts to waste an organism's time and energy and chances for's only a matter of time before that stressor is disposed of.

Maybe. I'm just throwing things out there.

If life within the Church OVERALL has more to offer--a social network, peace in a marriage, opportunities to find a mate, food and shelter in times of desperation perhaps--; the subconscious does the math, and the head stays in the sand.

"The present can only be clearly seen retrospectively."

At the time I left, I couldn't have imagined anything quite so painful. I thought I was only losing, losing so much... But unquestionably, in spite of all I've lost...I've gained much, much more. My life, my self, my mind is my own, and I am at peace. I am more thrilled to be ME than I have ever been.

Rambling. Hope I make sense.

Subject: People mustn't be afraid to re-evaluate.
Date: Mar 28 01:12
Author: JoeF
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I think at some point a person must ask the question, "What am I getting out of this?" Or more specifically, "What return am I getting on my investment?"

I look at my 401k statements and make adjustments as needed. Why should any aspect of our lives be any different, including religion? Sure, the apologists will tell you you're acquiring "great treasures in heaven." Well, have you seen a quarterly report?


Subject: Hmmm. Perhaps a defective gullibility gene? ;^) n/t
Date: Mar 28 11:59
Author: Schweizerkind
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Subject: Exmos prefer a painful truth to a pleasant lie (nt)
Date: Mar 28 14:19
Author: Danite
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Subject: According to Carl Reiner
Date: Mar 29 14:21
Author: Elwood
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It may be that exmos have a sense of humor. There is a fun article today on about Carl Reiner and his love of Mark Twain's work. He says:

"If you have a sense of humor, you have to question everything," Reiner says. "Everything seems funny to you. Look at all of the accouterments and vestments of very religious people. Who decided they should have the hat that goes this way and that? It's theater.

"Take everybody's clothes off and you couldn't tell the prelate from the peasant. All of this is to be discussed and noticed."

The article is at:

He may be on to something because it seems that the exmos around here have much more of a sense of humor than the TBM's that troll around.