Subject: regarding cultural myths...
Date: Mar 29 08:28
Author: ExMoron
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Admittedly I haven't been on this board very long, and I can't speak for anyone else's personal experiences, either while in the Morg, or post Morg, but I have an observaton to make. I've read many times on this board now how life outside the Morg is so good: daisies bloom, blossoms sprout, birds sing, sun shines....

Sure, we no longer have Morgbots ordering us around, filling us with their lies, and that's great. But life still goes on, vicissitudes and all. I've been out for 22 years. Life has not been all rosy, all the time. There's been some pretty crummy times here and there. Some great times, too.

To tell the truth, since leaving the Morg/Christianity/religion, I have been disquieted. Looking into the void is a scary and unnerving thing to do. I have no promises now. I am most likely looking at oblivion sometime in the future. Philosophy has helped a bit, but it is no substitute for that old, "warm fuzzy" I had in my teens.

Would I change knowing the truth for the comforting old lies? No. As someone once said, "Give me truth above all." Still--the truth hurts (usually.)

I'm glad that so many people have found new direction and purpose since leaving the Morg. Way to go. I just wonder if we ExMorgs aren't creating new ExMorg myths about the loveliness of post-LDS life. I see some danger in doing so. We may be unconsciously making promises that we can't keep.

'Nuff spouting for now. :-)

Subject: Yes, bad things happen in and out of the church.
Date: Mar 29 09:16
Author: Cheryl

Being in the church is similar to living under a rock. Some of the creepy-crawlies under the rock feel safe and enjoy slithering in soggy darkness, but they still get sick, die and are eaten by bigger slime.

When the rock lifts, there is freedom and lovliness even if the sun startles the senses. Bad things may still happen, but at least there is lush grass and wild iris to feed the soul.

I'd rather take the bad with the good along a sparkling brook than exist under a rock and give up every dream of freedom.

Subject: Re: Yes, bad things happen in and out of the church.
Date: Mar 29 09:21
Author: ExMoron
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No argument here.

Subject: Re: regarding cultural myths...
Date: Mar 29 09:25
Author: Librarian

This sounds like the feelings I went through when I gave up being a Catholic at age 16. I now deliberately eat meat on Friday, skip all participation in Sunday services, hate funerals and wakes, will skip any weddings in the church, and go to the beach. Sundays are spent in hedonistic activities such as watching T.V., doing my laundry, visiting a good museum in NYC, or the zoo if sunny, writing letters, phoning friends, and all without one trace of guilt. I went to Palm Sunday service last year just to keep a friend company, but since all the nasty things have been un-earthed in that cult, I skipped it this year, and plan to spend Easter at the cyber cafe in Times Square. Enjoy your life, and if you can get past the cultural conditioning that any god even exists, and if she exists is interested in you personally, then you should not have to fear anything. Mourn your losses as a caring human being, take a pill if necessary, or do some yoga, but quit being scared of living!

Subject: Re: regarding cultural myths...
Date: Mar 29 09:48
Author: ExMoron
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Sorry I'm not better at expressing my thoughts. I didn't mean to say that I still feel guilt about leaving the Morg. I left that behind long ago. Actually, just having that guilt lifted from me was pretty terrific, all by itself. I can see why so many people are ecstatic upon gaining their freedom.

Subject: Do you know Carl Sagan?
Date: Mar 29 09:32
Author: Insomniac
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He wrote a book called "Contact" about spiritual discovery. A movie was made of it with Jodie Foster. There is another book of his called "Demon Haunted World" about the myths the follow a lot of people around.

Both good read, I highly suggest both.

Stay up late,


Subject: Re: Do you know Carl Sagan?
Date: Mar 29 09:41
Author: ExMoron
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"Contact" was a kick-ass book. The movie was cool, too. Haven't read "Demon Haunted World." Will have to check it out.

Subject: Well now, I don't know
Date: Mar 29 09:44
Author: Sebastian

If my life was going poopy I would say so and if it was going great I would say so. Life is life no matter what religion you're in or out of.

I'm gathering from your post that you may think that we're just saying we're happy outside of the church just because that might be the thing to do? I could be wrong, please correct me if I am. I can only speak for myself, as usual, but I don't feel the need to do that. I feel that my life has gotten better mostly because the black cloud that hovered over my head has now disappeared. I was always fighting depression and anxiety while in the church and now I'm not. So now, even if life throws me a curve ball I don't feel like I'm going to crumble. I still have days that I feel blue but that's normal for all humans. I don't feel life is a void now. Life used to have a void in it and I realized that what was missing from my life was myself. After leaving I found myself again and the void was filled. Life is not perfect but I don't want it to be.

I hope you can find what you're looking for in life. Remember you're not a teen anymore and you see life through an older set of eyes. Let go of the past and don't let it become your burden. Peace!

Subject: Finding yourself...
Date: Mar 29 11:37
Author: Breeze

That really touched a chord with me because it was exactly the way I felt when I started letting go. It was as if I'd become a agreeable, pleasant, and submissive shell.

As I left my marriage and the church I started retrieving parts of my personality again and people that had known me before, during, and after my time in the church and the twisted marriage all commented on how "I" was coming back. I had opinions again. I had laughter again. I talked loud again. I was just more fun. Also more calm.

Some of the supression was because of the marriage and some was because of the church. However, the marriage was a very Mormon Marriage--that is, lots of lies, lots of cover-ups, lots of reinvented history and false PR, temple, garmies, calling ladder, Celestial carrots everywhere, etc.--that I just see them both as the same.

Subject: Re: regarding cultural myths...
Date: Mar 29 09:59
Author: wisedup
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Cultural myths are wonderful IF they help one live a better life. Problem is - most are worn out - useless - dogma. This garbage produces nothing but guilt and shame - no human needs this. From my readings on the board, there are several religions which have SOMETHING to give.

Read some stuff by Joseph Campbell - he's great on myths!!!

Subject: Re: regarding cultural myths...
Date: Mar 29 10:15
Author: ExMoron
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Sorry, fresh out of the myth market. I lost my taste for metaphysics, and such, even before I left the Morg. These days I am more into "Question everything."

As Descartes should have said:

I think I think, therefore I think I am.

Subject: Santa Claus, ebb and flow, moments...
Date: Mar 29 10:43
Author: Helen
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Good things happened, bad things happened, before I was a Mormon
Good things happened bad things happened, when I was Mormon
Good things happened bad things happened, after I left Mormonism

I remember as a Mormon the "warm fuzzy" feeling believing that all the "eternal questions" had answers. Then I realized I was accepting what someone else said were the answers. To use your word, it was disquieting. It really felt not much different than when I discovered there was no Santa Claus and I thought Christmas will never be the same again.

My finding the Church was like trying to replace those feelings of when I believed there was a Santa Claus. Then once more I realized I was accepting what someone else said were the answers.

It was a time of reckoning, it was the "Dark Night of The Soul" and I started reading and reading and reading. Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan is one of the best books I ever read that assisted me with the dark night of the soul experience.

What I arrived at for me is that what I know about the answers to the BIG questions is that I don't know. That is when I made the shift to believing that today my life is best lived in the moments, one after the other, some good, some bad, but they ebb and flow like the tide and I ride with it comfortable for each ebb and each flow.

It was the letting go of having to have everything nicely packaged that brought me freedom, freedom to think for myself, freedom to explore, freedom to discover my own answers, letting go of some eternal Kolob, Celestial Kingdom. It was the not looking back and clinging to moments past, or hanging onto to future moments that haven't arrived, but enjoying and taking the moment NOW. One after the other, breathing in, breathing out.

So life away from Mormonism is better. I do not think it is an Exmorg myth, life is just plain better because we are free. That freedom is the bonus leaving the Mormon group think.

And how many miles I have left before I sleep into oblivion I know not but it doesn't worry me anymore. The moment is now.

Subject: Re: Santa Claus, ebb and flow, moments...
Date: Mar 29 11:06
Author: ExMoron
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Speaking of good books to read, just about anything by Bertrand Russell is worth looking at. Carl Sagan probably read him.

Subject: There is a natural tendency to overstate things...
Date: Mar 29 11:28
Author: Justanotherexmo
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...such that if we want to support our current position, we'll say life is better.

But I don't think many really do that here. No one's promising paradise in exmormonism. For that matter, I often say, and other people too, that leaving the church is hard, that it would be easier to ignore any doubts and stay in the church.

However, there are certainly some very real benefits of leaving. There's that 10% raise from no longer paying tithing to the corporation. You've got all this time freed up from not having to serve in church callings and attend a bunch of dull weekly meetings. You get relationships that are more real, based on actual common interests rather than nothing more than the fact that you attend the same church.

And my most favorite--I no longer have to compartmentalize my mormon beliefs on the one side, and reality on the other. Now I just stick with reality.

But like others here are already saying, good and bad things happen to everyone, and we're certainly not promising any magical protection from the nasty things that happen in your life just for leaving mormonism.

Subject: Re: There is a natural tendency to overstate things...
Date: Mar 29 15:05
Author: ExMoron
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That about sums it up for me as well. Guess I was just reaching for something to post about. It stemmed from when I read "The Jungle," by Upton Sinclair about 10 years ago. For the main character everything before becoming a Socialist was bad, and everything after becoming a Socialist was just peachy. It rang false to me as I read it. I was probably bringing too much of that to this board.