|Subject:||Please help me, I'm in shock|
|Date:||Jul 05 23:07|
|I was baptized into the Mormon church a few yrs ago,(which was not a
nice experience, as I've posted before) given a calling (that was difficult for me and
then I was made to feel inadequate when I was honest enough to ask for help), I dragged
myself to meetings (even though a series of negative, even weird things were freaking me
out), gave testimonies, talks, helped with missionary discussions, I fast tracked it
straight to the temple (because I was told that is what Mormons do) and I believed that
"making it" to the temple would "fix" all the negatives.
My life was OK before this, I was truly searching for spiritual experiences and truth, then met Mormons who invited me over for dinner, the mishies were there and that counted as the first discussion, unbeknownst to me. But I believed in the possibility of continuing revelation and the holy spirit in our lives and I proceeded as above.
There's been a lot on the BB this week about temples, church history and doctrine that I didn't know, really KNOW, even though I looked for it when I was a member, trying to figure out church doctrine.
I didn't have the big picture before. When I came to the board, I was upset about negative experiences in the church and ongoing uneasiness about friends there and the flawed missionary program, as I've said before. I couldn't bring myself to call the church a cult though and I didn't really see why my Christian friends consider the church "not Christian". I said if they say they're Christian, they are. And I tried to just look at the fruits, yada, yada... I haven't talked to anyone about the temple, G's (it took me 2 yrs to finally get rid of them) or any of the bad experiences (except finally here). I knew I was "protecting" the church and the things that they say are sacred, even if they weren't to me. I wanted to be respectful and definitely not "apostate". From coming to the BB, I have been able to talk about some of the stuff and it is liberating and healing.
I have felt very sad over my yrs in the church and many days feel sad for all the pain people express here. I have not only left the LDS church but my BA church I returned to post-LDS and am in the process of re-evaluating everything I have always believed and all that I have experienced in and out of the LDS church. I know that can be a good thing. It's also kind of mind blowing, disorienting and grief-inducing. Lately, I've been able to be a bit lighthearted about it and even joke about some of it.
Today, I read the "better dead clean than alive unclean" thread by sparkle.
That's when the shock set in.
Shock about all the doctrine I wasn't aware of, that no-one told me, that I couldn't uncover even though I tried (what if you're not even looking or not aware there's something lurking under the surface?) And I ask WHY??? WHY didn't they tell me??? Even when I asked??? Not telling me made it feel scary, like a monster under the bed that won't hurt you as long as you don't peek, but you know something's there... And now, it makes me shocked and angry, that they DID deliberately withhold it from me.
Among the mindblowers today:
*Celestial marriage - you MUST be married (I TOLD them I wasn't and likely wouldn't be)
*Before 1990, women made the temple covenants to their husbands (at least you would know then you NEEDED a husband)
*[Normally] Women enter the temple for the 1st time to be married (so what the ##*## was I doing there?)
*We are LITERAL spiritual children of HF (somebody PLEASE tell me what that MEANS)
*70% of Mormon brides in 1978 were pregnant? [Admin Note: NonTemple Weddings](ack!!!)
*Women in the 1800s were converted to the church, moved to Utah and THEN they found out about polygamy (this is outrageous and the church, in my experience, uses the same tactics to this very day)
Why did they send me to the temple? Why didn't I know about the husband thing?
And the biggest mindblower to me as a Christian - I can't even type it - ack, gasp, choke, vomit.........Jesus was a polygamist? [Admin Note:refer to the Journal of Discourses] I cannot begin to express the heresy, the SACRILEGE of this.
Even if it's all not true, even if there is no God - if you believed in the church, if you believed in religion, if you trusted people, if you believed in God,
you would understand why
I'm in shock.....................
|Subject:||Re: Please help me, I'm in shock|
|Date:||Jul 05 23:16|
|There, there. It will be ok. It's all going to be all right. You'll
get over it and move on.
I don't mean to be irritating, and please don't take it that way. When my wife reacts to something this way, the thing she most needs to hear is "It's going to be all right".
I think that's what you need to hear, too. It's going to be okay - you'll adapt. You'll cope. It will take some time, but you'll be able to see these things from the point of view of reality. It might be tough - especially admitting how you've been a part of what happened, but you'll realize how someone else used you (yes USED you), and admitting it you'll have more power to resist it happening again.
Rest well, Nightingale - things will be all right.
|Date:||Jul 05 23:28|
|i might be wrong, but some of the shock is from knowing this
deceptive church is still cranking and other people will have to go through this rape
(knowingly or not).
There cannot be disclosure until the whole thing is stopped. Until no one goes through the Temple ever again and the church dissappears off the face of the planet.
that is when the shock will stop.
what can you do to help this?
|Date:||Jul 05 23:34|
|Robin, the church won't disappear off the face of the planet any
more than Islam could have been banished in the 7th century. With a sucker being born
every 10 seconds the church has its guaranteed quota for the 21st century. People need
spiritual havens. Our task shoud be to ensure that they have access to truth, so they can
make rational choices.
If I had my way I'd probably ban Christianity too. But bans and eradication don't solve needs. We need to identify what it is that people really want, and to stop them sublimating in religious BS. I know you're a Christian and might not agree, but objectively speaking Christianity has as many flaws to many people as Mormonism does.
|Subject:||Re: Please help me, I'm in shock|
|Date:||Jul 05 23:18|
|Nightingale, your shock is understandable. Even 27 years after the
start of my Mormon experience I'm still in shock. Shock that I could have believed for so
long, and shock that I allowed myself to believe such nonsense. Fortunately you seem to
have had only a relatively short time in the church, in comparison to me anyway.
The real tragedy is those who continue to believe this claptrap. You can contribute by adding your articulate voice of reason to the deluded masses in Mormonism.
|Subject:||It all makes sense when you realize that none of the prophets and apostles|
|Date:||Jul 05 23:35|
|are any more inspired than any random collection of truck drivers,
CPAs, accountants and vacuum salesmen drawn from the phone book would be. At any time in
Mormon history, you have 15 uninspired guys (the First Presidency and the 12 Apostles),
who get the idea in their head that God is a-revelatin' through them to the whole world.
They then proceed to spend a lifetime blathering off about whatever seems to make sense to
them at the time. The result is a totally messed up hodge-podge of incoherent doctrines
and teachings. Most Mormons are buffet Mormons and only put on their plate those teachings
that appeal to them and leave off the rest. The leadership consistently pushes a few main
dishes, such as temple marriage, tithing, regular church attendance... But everything else
For example, for every TBM you find who believes the "better dead than unclean" teaching, you'll probably find another one or two TBMs who think it is extremist nonsense. There's no way to figure out Mormonism other than to realize that it's just a nonsensical mess. TBMs don't take half of the gibberish of their inspired leaders seriously. The TBMs who try to take it all seriously usually end up as neurotic nutjobs in need of serious therapy and medication.
BTW, I have a hard time believing that 70% of brides married in Utah were pregnant at they time they got married. That just doesn't seem credible. Do you know where that statistic came from?
|Subject:||S'okay. Break a few plates and then take a nice, hot bath. n/t|
|Date:||Jul 05 23:37|
|Author:||girl in the box|
|Subject:||What makes Mormonism a desception is|
|Date:||Jul 05 23:38|
|that there is no full disclosure before baptism. They only give you
the stuff that is "wonderful" and easy to believe and accepted my the majority
of Chistianity and mankind.
Once you buy into the idea that "...once the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done," by then you are sucked in enough that some of the more controversial stuff can be introduced to you.
Most believing Mormons are not certain themselves what Mormon Doctrine is. When Bruce R. McConkie wrote a book about Mormon doctrine, he had to revise it because other apostles did not agree that what he wrote was Mormon doctrine.
What most Mormons do is, testify that they "know the church is true" but then when asked about the controversial stuff, they will reply with, "...one day the Lord will explain this to us." and "...it does not pertain to your salvation."
Problem is, unless ALL of it is true, it DOES apply to your salvation. Either that, or religion itself DOES NOT provide any salvation whatsoever, which is where I have arrived at.
Good luck. I'm glad you are here, Nightingale.
|Subject:||Wonderful post! Boy have you summed it up and let me jump on your bandwagon. Very nice. n/t|
|Date:||Jul 06 00:11|
|Subject:||I've been there, too...|
|Date:||Jul 06 00:14|
|And I grew up in the church, so I didn't really have much excuse.
But yes, truly they do hide their history, and what little they publish is so whitewashed
as to make it unrecognizable from the real thing.
It's been awhile, but when I started to realize the extent of the lies, it blew me away. My response was to be angry at all things and everyone mormon. I ranted on LDS forums, tried to knock sense into my LDS friends, etc. About a year later, my wife went through the same thing (which was cute, because she almost never gets angry about anything).
I eventually got over it (and so did she), and yeah, this board was helpful at the time, helping me see that I wasn't alone, and that it too would pass.
And that's what you bring to this forum--your experience, your perspective, and most of all, letting others know that they aren't alone, that you are going through this, too.
|Date:||Jul 06 01:36|
|on information about 70% of Mormon brides in 1978 being pregnant.
70% of temple brides? or all brides who were Mormon? I knew of one girl already pregnant
when married in the temple in 1976. I was very surprised to hear of this (after the fact,
of course). She was always the perfect Molly Mormon. How could she possibly rationalize
her worthiness to be temple married while PREGNANT!!! Isn't honesty a prerequisite for a
recommend not to mention chastity? She knew she would be found out. I suppose she repented
and all was well. Oh, by the way, she married a Bishop's son.
|Subject:||the source of her shock|
|Date:||Jul 06 01:55|
I think she read the article I linked to, which is right on this site. I put the link up in the better dead clean thread. Or if you visit the main page, go to the section with articles/links I believe, and on the left side near the top there is one specifically about women, I think it's called women's role in lds church....... god if I just looked for the link it would have been less work than all this typing!!
the brides info I found a bit surprising. It was just Utah they said I believe, not necessarily mormon? I forget now. no wait I think it was mormon, but it definitely did not say temple brides. And the sources from that author are in her biblio at the end, I hope this is enough info!!
There was some surprising info in there, although I knew/suspected/found out about most of it here before anyway. And I remember feeling shocked at learning about temple rituals and procedures too, which I learned on this site, not in the church (too secret/sacred/whatever they want to call it). Have you ever read SusieQ's annointing experience? That one was awful! so glad I never went to the temple.
|Subject:||Breathe in >> << breathe out << >>.|
|Date:||Jul 06 01:42|
|Sometimes it does all hit you like a shockwave, doesn't it? Like a
mindnumbing tsunami that leaves you thinking "Everything I know is wrong."
It does get better, but it will take time; prepare yourself for the angry feelings next. I'm sure you have a sense of humour (how else could you hang here with us?!). There have been times when the funny stuff/people/posts on this board have gotten me through when nothing else has.
And don't feel bad that you wound up in a church with some crazy-ass doctrines in its closet. The emotional sell of Mormondom is strong. We humans are such social creatures and it's no wonder so many of us are drawn to a system that promises such a strong network.
Most Mormons don't know their own doctrine. They don't know their own history. They don't have to...all they have to "know" is that "it's true." Mormon doctrine could be anything...Mormons are simply loyal to the structure, each other, "the church", and the beliefs are secondary. Enough time and doctrinal changes have passed to prove that!
The great Mormon crime is disloyalty to Mormondom. Everything else--"death before dishonour", Christ as a polygamist, bloody penalty oaths--is dust in the wind.
Ahhh...who needs 'em anyway! Be thankful you weren't brainwashed from birth like I was. For too many of us this garbage goes all the way to the bone.
|Subject:||Been there done that! (a few bad words)|
|Date:||Jul 06 01:51|
|Eric had a speech at X99 where he advised new exmos
to take their time in getting into religion. I tried the BAC
thing after leaving too. Same Shit different shovel. I
discovered that authoritarian religions were not my
thing at all. The hardest thing to do is choose for
oneself how to believe and what (if anything) to believe.
The e-lists are good for getting support in a less open
forum. Best of luck on your journey! It can be a
wonderful adventure if you allow it to be.
|Subject:||It was a shock for me too|
|Date:||Jul 06 01:55|
|That is in learning the real Mormon beliefs. The very first time I
discussed Mormonism with my girlfriend I came away from the discussion thinking that they
sounded like just some really off-base Protestant type of church but nothing as bad as say
Jehovah's Witnesses. She used all the familiar terms in familiar ways. Liitle did I
suspect that the similarities were a mile wide and an inch deep. I didnt stop to ask what
she meant when she used words like salvation.
Then came the challenge to read the BoM and most importantly pray about it. There was a strange emphasis on the word pray although she didnt add the bit about praying to see if it was true. Still, an alarm sounded in the back of my head. I decided to do some real research went home and fired up my computer.
My jaw dropped...
I was in such a state of shock of what I was reading that they beleived in that I actually coundnt believe it. So I printed out a short list of 'objectionable' beliefs I found on a website and took them over and read them off to her and asked her if thats what she believed. I couldnt believe she said yes to every question.
Thank God(or maybe Gore ;) ) for the internet.
I actually did read the BoM in the end. Talk about a living hell. Only reason why I made it through was because I wanted to be able to have an intelligent discussion about it with her. I dont what the hell anyone sees in that worthless book.
|Date:||Jul 06 02:41|
|Most if not everyone here has gone through the exact same thing as
you are. Aside from feeling anger, when I look back i also feel ridiculous at time.
Bearing my testimony, teaching those doctrines...strongly might I add, as I was a very good Sunday School teacher and Elders Quorum President. I did a lot of missionary work in my area in my 17 years, teaching investigators to get baptized. I even helped in the conversion of a jewish couple who are still my best friends. Today, he's in the stake presidency.
It's very embarrassing. I can't believe I was that gullible. I find myself very intelligent, and yet, I fell in the trap bringing me to wear garments and go the temple and do temple work. Not going at the beach because I believed that seeing a woman in a bathing suit was "wrong".
I also had kids and raised them into mormonism. Luckily for me, by the time they were eight, I didn't want them to get baptized until they would be adults and be sure of what they would do.
It will get better Nightingale, just keep on posting as you do and we'll be there for you.
|Subject:||It is embarrising to admit I was a Mormon to most people.|
|Date:||Jul 06 03:42|
|When they find out you were Mormon, they ask WHY ? It is hard to
answer that question after you are out for a while. You wonder how you could have been so
gullible to go along with such stupid things, especially the Temple Ceremony.
I left the church before I knew most of the hidden stuff they talk about here. I just did not believe it was true after many experiences of seeing it was desperation in most cases instead of inspiration that was keeping things going. Threats and guilt.
Learning about Joseph Smith taking other mens wives while he sent them on missions was really an eye opener and the Avenging Angels both in Joseph and Brighams camps were awful. Brigham Young was responsible for many deaths before there was any other law in Utah. The people were isolated and at the mercy of his henchmen and you had better not disagree with him or you would be killed. It is no wonder the U.S. government was so upset with what went on in Utah, and not just the Polygamy either.
It is shocking and wish the world knew about it more. but the internet sure has helped educate those who are curious before they get Baptized.
Welcome to the board !
|Subject:||One small correction|
|Date:||Jul 06 07:51|
|Though the first time most LDS women go to the temple is to be married, it's not limited to that. For example, women who are about to go on missions go to the temple, and single women past what the church considers "standard" marriage age are encouraged to go. Similarly, young men who are going into the military rather than a mission are encouraged to go to the temple.|