Subject: So-Called "unconditional" love
Date: Aug 18 00:06
Author: Char
Mail Address:

I'm so glad that I found this site/board! I had been a faithful and active member for 25 years. What ever was asked of me I did without hesitation - not out of guilt but because I really love people and wanted to be of help to anyone in or out of the Church. I was frequently called to pick up people and take them to church because they did not have a working car, take people to the market, the doctor, etc. It was funny though, I am a single mom with two children and work full-time. I was called upon because, "You don't have a husband to go home to and more free time because you are not married" - go figure that
logic! Anyway....I taught SS and Young Women because I loved the youth and we had a great rapport. I served because I loved, nothing more. No guilt feelings that if I didn't I wasn't being a good person. I never took a calling if I didn't want to.

Two years ago my car was stolen (I was car-jacked) coming out of a meeting at the church. When I got home I called a woman who I thought was my friend and told her what happened. She came over, she called the Bishop and the Bisop and RS Pres. came over. When the Bish arrived he grilled me like a cheese sandwich! His tone was so accusing and the questions he asked made me feel like he was trying to get me to say something different each time. The RS Pres. looked at him as if to say, "Why are you being so hard on her?" and after they left my friend said the same thing. I never could figure out what his trip was.

No one asked how I would get the kids to school or how I would get to work or if I was OK or if I needed anything. I assumed that if I needed a ride to the market I could call upon any of my many "friends" in the ward. WAS I WRONG! I knew that we would need groceries by the weekend so I called my "friend" who had come over the night my car was stolen and asked if she could give me a lift to the market any time that was convenient for her. She gave every excuse in the book why she couldn't. I made 17 more calls (including my VT and HT)and I received the most insipid excuses! I was hurt and angry and felt terribly alone. Bus service doesn't run by my home so after work I walked almost 2 miles to the market. Would you believe that on the way there I saw two people from the ward who I called and they saw me and glanced away. When I got to the store one of the women was there! She avoided me like the plague and passed me as I walked home carrying 8 bags of groceries. I made another trip that weekend and half the ward was doing their grocery shopping. Two people stopped to speak to me and right away they said there was absolutely no way they could take me home (I live across the street from one of them). I was checking out when a co-worker saw me and she asked me how I was getting home and I told her I was walking. She about came unglued and hugged me and said she was taking me home. I was so grateful. On the way home she asked why someone from my church wasn't helping me and I told her they said they were busy. She said, "It figures." She gently scolded me for not calling her, etc. Without missing a beat she told me she would take me to and from work and take me anywhere I needed to go and she was not taking "no" for an answer! She helped me for 2 weeks until I could get another car. She even called to say she would take us to church! I was feeling upset with what happened so I told her I would not be going (I just could not stand the hypocracy). No one called from the ward to see if I needed a ride to church and no calls to ask why we were not there. When I got my car we went to church and hordes of people came up to me wanting to hear all about my car-jacking all the while offering excuses as to why they were not able to drive me anywhere.

As I look back over all the years I have been in the Church this has been a repeated pattern. When I was in intensive care and not expected to live, the RS Pres. called on the phone once to ask how I was. The Bish has some fear of hospitals and refuses to visit anyone there. When my husband left us and had taken all we had and it had come out that he had been sexually abusing my daughter, I was in such despair after work one day I had driven to my HT's home for a blessing - just anything to get me through it. He was clearly upset that I had come over and told the EQ Pres. that he would not be our HT anymore because he just can't have "that woman" coming over at all hours of the day and night (it was 5:45 p.m.) and upsetting his routine.

I suppose that I was just naive....I had always believed that we are all here to help one another in any capacity that we are able. I had NEVER, NOT ONCE called anyone in the ward for any kind of help before my car was taken. I took a hard look and saw that there were some people that they would bend over backwards to help - and these people had extensive family and monetary resources and really didn't need the extra help.

During F&T one day I listened as the Bish blubbered for 20 minutes at how "wonderful and helpful this ward is" and how anyone could be called upon at a moments notice to help someone in need, blah, blah, blah. Then others stood and said the same things, naming families and how wonderful so-and-so is and how blessed they felt that they could help someone who needed immediate help. Want to know what the emergencies were? One family was to busy to paint a bedroom before the dad's college friend would arrive so 15 (yes, 15) people rushed over to paint this 10 x 12 room. The other was a couple that was running late for the airport so they could fly to Hawaii and they missed the van that was picking them up and they didn't want to leave their car in the airport lot so this one guy who owns a Hummer drove them "in record time" to the airport. He bragged about how he "coaxed" others out of they way with his tank and described the frightened looks on their faces. The ward roared with laughter.

These are not the reasons why I left the Church - I have found a loving and peaceful and spiritual (instead of religious) way of life that makes me very happy. It has been over a year since I have been to church and only the ward clerk has called to ask if my daughter will be going to camp this year. I see people occasionally and some boldly tell me that I "need to come back to church". I got tired of hearing what they think I need and said to one, "Why do you think that you know what I need?"

I saw this kind of treatment and behaviors over the years in many wards and I know that my experience is not unique. They have their favorites and they believe they are doing good deeds and will get their CK reward.

It does amaze me that they go through life blindly and selectively, question nothing and allow the Bish and his counsellors to intimidate and manipulate...all in the name of God.

Subject: Unconditional love and the LDS church
Date: Aug 18 00:15
Author: "Mountain Man"
Mail Address:

You hit the nail on the head Char! I didn't find unconditional love until I LEFT the worthless lds church!!
They don't have an exclusive position on love or anything else for that matter. Pardon the rant! Peace to you.

Subject: Welcome Char!....
Date: Aug 18 00:31
Author: Helen
Mail Address:

Boy if that's love who needs it eh?

The Church practices conditional love and it's always their conditions. Members are numbers and statistics in that Church. Just the use of "Brother" and "Sister" is so impersonal.

Anyway, I'm glad that you have something that makes you happy now.

And welcome aboard.

Subject: Glad you're here...visit often....
Date: Aug 18 03:13
Author: shhnephi
Mail Address:

It sounds like we have some things in common. I only
discovered the BB this summer. I was in the church for 26
years. I am also divorced and my ex-husband also molested
our daughter. I have been out of the church about 15 years
now, all my kids are grown and doing well. I am happy and
doing well. Leaving the church was one of the best life
decisions I ever made. All the best to you and your family.

Subject: Thanks for sharing your story and your insightful analysis...
Date: Aug 18 04:19
Author: Aphrodite
Mail Address:

of Mormon favoritism.

Char wrote:

"I took a hard look and saw that there were some people that they would bend over backwards to help - and these people had extensive family and monetary resources and really didn't need the extra help."

I've noticed that too. When one popular family in my ex-ward had a fire at their house and supposedly didn't have their insurance updated to cover some remodeling they'd recently done, the entire ward did all the repairs, etc., for them. Some of the work was done by professional builders in the ward--all for free, of course. Almost every active member was asked to help several times--asked to contribute skilled labor. The ward members even took care of their yard, etc. After the fire, this family's house was much nicer than I remembered it before, thanks in part, I'm sure, to all the free labor they got from the ward.

Now I really don't have a problem with a ward helping a family like this. I think it's fine if they want to do it, but I don't see any consistency. While everyone is bending over backward to install the X family's new ceramic tile, there are SCORES of people in the ward who have REAL problems, and no one is worried about helping them.

It seems to me, after many years of observing who and how Mormons help in their ward, that getting and giving help is a way to maintain and increase status in the group. When Family X bears their testimonies about how Bro. Y took them to the airport so they didn't miss the flight to Hawaii, what they're really saying is, "We're so glad that we can be a part of this group because of the benefits we get from it," AND "Look at how many people helped us. We're really in with this ward." I remember after having babies and having the Relief Society bring me dinners, etc., bearing my testimony and talking about how grateful I was for their help, etc., but REALLY what I was saying is, "I'm so glad that this ward acknowledges my existence and that I can be part of the clique." (It would have been easier for me to have ordered take-out and stayed in my pajamas anyway, lol.)

But not only do Mormons achieve status by getting help (especially from certain "in" members of the group) but from GIVING it to the right people. To be thanked in Fast and Testimony Meeting by a prestigious ward member (someone in a leadership position, a child or grandchild of a G.A., someone who makes more money than the average ward member, etc.) is a way that the helping member can be part of the clique.

What's REALLY disgusting to me is to see that there are many people (like Char) who give and give, but for some reason they're just not good enough, they just don't fit the Mormon model enough to warrant any help in return. Since Char was a single mom (gasp) she could never be one of the Mormon elite anyway. When bad things happen to Mormons (at least the ones who AREN'T in the clique) the "faithful" ("in") members and leadership want to blame the member. I think that's why Char's bishop was accusing her regarding the car-jacking. And since Char's ex-husband was abusive, she was somehow unworthy of the support and help from the Mormon Cult.

Char, your post makes me so very angry, but I think it is helpful to understand how the Morg clique works, and I understand it a little better because of your story. I am so sorry that you gave so much to that cult only to be let down in a time of need. It's heart-breaking.

On a positive note, though, congratulations on leaving Mormonism! While I think it's perfectly legitimate to leave Mormonism because it's not working for you and because of the members' hypocrisy, it might make you feel better to study the links at this site on history and doctrine regarding Mormonism so you'll know that there's no way it can be true. If Mormons tell you that you "need to be going to church," then you can tell them that they need to study their church's history with its lies, racism, sexism, and murder.

One more thing: Your post reminded me of how desperate so many Mormons are to fit into their wards. That's why they're willing to give so much for so little in return. I think that when I left the Morg, some members were surprised because they considered me part of their clique. "We think you're a really neat lady, Aphrodite, and we just want you to come back to Relief Society." Since I was married young with kids, in a house, etc. (when we first moved to the ward they asked if we were renting or buying; apparently they wouldn't have been very interested in us if we were just renting), I fit the Mormon model. It seems that their attitude is/was, "But we accept you, so why would you want to leave?" I have no desire to be in any clique, especially one that's based on lies and brainwashing.

Char, I'm glad you found this board. I hope you get some helpful advice and information here.

Subject: what a rotten bunch
Date: Aug 18 06:27
Author: J.

and no doubt they stand around stroking eachother and
murmering how worthy they are.
good riddance to bad rubbish.
welcome, here, Char.
i expect you'll find much support.

(please note there isn't so much heavy traffic here at the
weekends, so don't expect too much response to your post on a
sunday — but you'll sure get it from those of us who are here!)