Subject: Not so Easy
Date: Jan 10 11:19
Author: Dirt_Engr
Mail Address:

I read the posts on this board (at least the non-hate-mongering ones on and it sounds so easy for some of you to have made the break. For me . . . not so easy. I am BIC, RM, MIT, etc. . . Only recently I have realized/admitted to myself that I have never had faith in Mormonism. My wife, however, is seriously devoted, and were I to formally break w/ the church it would surely mean divorce. I do not have the heart to do that to my sons.

So, I muddle along, am involved in Scouting, support my family in Church endeavors, but don't participate much beyond that. That means enduring the Bishop's lectures about my lack of faith, the weekly Home Teaching harangue from the Elders Quorum President, etc. I know that is no way to live, but compared to breaking up my family it seems a small price to pay.

BTW, my wife and I went to counselling a few years ago, but after the counsellor diagnosed her as "co-dependent" the sessions came to an end in a hurry! Having learned more about the concept of co-dependency, it seems to me to apply to just about anyone that is seriously "active" in "serving others."

Your thoughts appreciated.

Subject: don't be fooled
Date: Jan 10 11:30
Author: Sebastian

it hasn't been that easy for us to leave. I do agree, however, that those who were indoctrinated from birth have a lot more issues to deal with in leaving.

I hope you find answers to whatever questions you may have. If you're willing to go to church with your wife despite your non-belief then good for you. Do you think she would ever come around?

Subject: Same thing
Date: Jan 10 12:06
Author: greenbean

I know where you are coming from, I'm currently making the break too...Although I don't have any church jobs now...I asked to be released although the Scouting job would be a lot of fun, it seemed all I got were teaching positions. My TBM wife is going thru a lot right now trying to figure me out and plan for her future and it isn't good according to the Morg. We've also gone to a Therapist and actually it helped me come to a realization that I don't have to pretend to believe anymore, and break my co-dependency on the church and my spouse...I am finding it a whole lot easier now that I have free thoughts and critical thinking has improved my outlook on life without the fear associated with what the church, bishop, or others may think...I honestly believe I am gaining further light and knowledge and low and behold it is not in the Temple....

anyway, good luck and remember you are not alone....

BTW i'm a Road_Engr

Subject: I agree about the co-dependency thing...
Date: Jan 10 11:35
Author: Brian B.

It is a drug term used to describe a supporting enabler that wants their loved one addicted to be more easily controlled and also make themselves indispensible to the relationship. "Here honey, have another valium..." I think the Morg is a giant drug used by co-dependent spouses to either control them or make themselves indispensible via the Morg's solid control of families and family relationships. When one spouse kicks Mormonism, the other feels vulnerable and possibly abandoned in their addiction. They react out of fear at first. There is no healthy relationship to Mormonism, I might add, all things considered. I've seen non-believers give up interests and pursuits and friendships because it offended their spouse. I know a guy who doubts Mormonism but claims he vowed to his wife to never associate with anyone who drinks beer. The control is amazing. Thanks and welcome.

Subject: My heart goes out to you....
Date: Jan 10 12:07
Author: Aphrodite
Mail Address:

You know, I think it's probably been more difficult for most people here to leave than comes across now. Time has passed, and people are progressing in their recovery, but it seems to me that leaving Mormonism has been VERY hard for most the people here. That's why they're here, I think.

I totally understand how you would want to keep your family together by playing Mormon. But I think an important consideration is how doing so will affect your sons. Yes, you want to keep the family together, but do you want to raise them with all the Mormon pressure you had? Do you want them to go on missions, get married in the temple, etc.? Thinking about my kids actually made me want to get out of Mormonism more (even though I have a TBM spouse, too.)

Are you sure your wife would divorce you if you expressed your disbelief in Mormonism? Yes, there are many here whose decisions to leave have resulted in divorce, but there are many others whose spouses have eventually left Mormonism with them (the best option, of course), and still others who are happily married to believing Mormons.

Perhaps you could show your wife why Mormonism is false, and she would accept it, too. The best approach might be, "I have some concerns about the church, and I'm going to look for answers." Then explore Mormon history (the real Mormon history, I mean) together. For the people who got their spouses to leave with them, a key element seemed to be showing their love and devotion to their spouse and children.

Best Wishes!

Subject: Suggestion
Date: Jan 10 12:12
Author: someone who's been there
Mail Address:

While this board has some fine folks on it, I'd like to suggest another one you might try. It's for people who don't believe but have to make the best of it due to family concerns like yours. No one there will be suggesting you divorce her. Not that they will here, but it has happened. Try it out

Subject: Oh my, yes!
Date: Jan 10 12:19
Author: Sebastian

This is an excellent board for someone in your situation. It has a very nice, calm and supportive atmosphere. Give it a shot!

Subject: This board used to scare me.
Date: Jan 10 12:17
Author: Fly
Mail Address:

I also was BIC, MIT, my husband is an RM with a
blue-blood Mo pedigree.

I didn't like it here at first because it seemed that the
posters were so irreverent... this board is the flip side,
the "profane" side of the sacred/profane Church coin.

If you stick around, and get to know us, you'll
understand that we were just as invested in the church
as anyone out there ever was. I loved that stupid
church. The hole it left is huge.

Things do get better eventually.

Subject: it use to scare me too. Not anymore n/t
Date: Jan 12 00:23
Author: Mormon Person
Mail Address:


Subject: I can identify with that...
Date: Jan 10 12:24
Author: Ex Mormon Ron
Mail Address:

..I hung around for five extra years just because I was the Scoutmaster. I loved being involved with the scouts. I never really was harangued by anyone, because there was nobody else in the ward that wanted the Scoutmaster position.

Hang in there.


Subject: rock---Dirt_Engr--hard place
Date: Jan 10 16:49
Author: HappyHeretic
Mail Address:

I appreciate your dedication to your family. It must be frustrating to go to meetings while harbouring doubts.

For you own sake please remember that you are part of the "family" too. Others need to accomodate your needs too.

I feel I owe my children honesty. If I were in your shoes I will feel that I were betraying thier trust in me. That kind of guilt would suck.

Could it be that you underestimate your wife's love and understanding for you?

I would do the same as you (play the role) if I was certain that it would break up my family.

Best wishes.

Subject: My wife lived and breathed the church. What have
Date: Jan 10 17:05
Author: Diego

you found about Mormonism that you don't agree with, or maybe I should ask, what do you still agree with? Anyway, wife was Relief Society president, and was going to the temple every week. I would be glad to talk to you offline. We may have a lot in common. Are you a soils engineer?

Subject: It's possible you'd all be better off splitting... really
Date: Jan 11 04:43
Author: sparkle
Mail Address:

I used to wish my parents would divorce. They fought SO MUCH and it was enough to drive me nuts. I'm sure it did in fact. My mom had no faith at all in herself that she could do fine without her man, but I always thought she would be great. Lack of self-esteem.

I don't know how happy your family is as a unit, especially with you pretending, but it's something to consider. Of course it will be really difficult in the beginning, but once the dust settles it might be well worth it.

Subject: See, DR? Here's one already. nt
Date: Jan 11 08:14
Author: someone who's been there
Mail Address:


Subject: I've been where you are, here is what I did
Date: Jan 11 09:43
Author: someone
Mail Address:

Hey Dirt,
A year ago I was in nearly your same situation- I was BOC, RM, MIL, parents in ward and stake leadership my whole life, I served in leadership most of my mission, served in a couple of elder's quarum presidencies afterwards and as gospel doctrine teacher.
My wife was a convert who sacrificed everything to join the church and did everything the church asked of her including sacrificing time with her children and myself 3 or 4 nights a week to fulfil multiple callings.
After learning the truth about the church, and after seeing that most folks end up loosing their families when that happened, I decided to make it a goal to get us all out together. I took it very slow. I was prepared to take years if I had to, but was happily surprised that it only took several months. I doubt that would be the situation all the time though. At any rate, slowly voiced small doubts about thing that I had learned. Then after several months, I asked my wife to help me work through some of the stuff that I had learned about the church. She looked at the stuff eventually because she had a strong testimony and knew that nothing could change that and because she wanted to help me. That was all it took- once the facts are known, they cannot be denied. During the whole process, I emphasized constantly how much I loved her no matter what. I continued to attend church (which became more and more difficult as the more my mind was freed the more aware I became of a lot of the nonsense that is repeated there), and I always avoided any conflict her by staying calm and kind. Once she knew I was doubting, she said she felt betrayed because she thought she was marrying someone who would take her to the Celestial Kingdom (ouch!). I think a lot of wives seem to have feelings of betrayal similar to that when their husband leaves the church, even that their marriage vows are no longer exactly valid because the husband has broken his temple vows by doubting. I replied that I was very sorry, but that I felt betrayed too by the church for not telling me about the stuff I had discovered before I made those commitments, but that I loved her with all of my heart, and I married her because I loved her and that didn't change. It looked pretty black for a while, but I continued to stay calm and kind and loving and take things slowly. Once she actually read a lot of the stuff I had filed for her, it was actually pretty fast for her to leave the church- much faster than for me- it took me several months of constant study to educate myself out, but maybe it was faster for her because she was a convert.
At any rate, there is hope. If you are slow and careful, she may see the light.
Good luck to you.

Subject: Forgot to add- marriage never better than since we left. Very happy now n/t
Date: Jan 11 09:46
Author: someone
Mail Address:

Subject: That was a great post and almost the same thing tht happened to me....
Date: Jan 12 08:10
Author: Druid
Mail Address:

I was in the same position. I managed to leave with the whole family intact. In fact it was my four boys that made me have to be honest with my wife. While they are young it is seems harmless sending them off to sunday school, especially if it means keeping the happy family together. However, my boys (and someday yours) were being groomed for their missions. I could see the indoctrination was almost complete on the oldest two. Looking at my children as married with children, I could see me as the trunk of a geneolgical tree streatching into the future. Would that tree be preping my grandchildren for missions in a few years? Or would my boys find xdsl girls to marry and be firmly grounded in reality and safely out side the chruch? It all depended on me.

It took me years. And it took my sweet TBM wife years to come around. The funny thing is she is farther along in her recovery than I am. And my boys are happier and have a world view that their old LDS peers have no clue of.

Take your time. But what ever you are, you are part of the family dynamics also and they can handle who you are, if there is enough love in the love bank.

I was never going to tell and just go along, but I started getting heart pains, I was so conflicted. It became a matter of life or death. Do you know what my sweet TBM wife who had never in her life, had an independent thought out side the chruch told me? "Well... I love you more than the church and we will work through this together...." Could have knocked me over with a feather. I still tell her how she proved her love that day. Now she gets angry thinking how the morg had manipulated her into a position where she actually had to hold the two in a balance.

Good Luck
You will make it through this.

With in a week the heart pains went away.

Subject: What are you saying "someone"? I wasn't trying to be harsh.
Date: Jan 12 03:38
Author: sparkle
Mail Address:

I can't help it if I had it a little less than smooth growing up. I tend to be bluntly anti-family at times I suppose. I'm sure Dirt_Engr has a better marriage than my parents did. But I honestly used to wish my parents would just split for us kids' peace of mind. They fought way WAY too much.

Your post is very good by the way.

Subject: If it was easy to leave...
Date: Jan 11 20:07
Author: girl in the box
Mail Address:

...all of us would have walked away, and never had a need or reason to come here.

Subject: Some would still be here...
Date: Jan 11 20:20
Author: Silky
Mail Address:

Some of us would still be here. For some (I doubt I'm the only one) it wasn't all that difficult to leave, once my eyes were open. Painful? Difficult? That wasn't my experience. For me it was...well... I always pictured horses, once shackled, now running freely in a beautiful meadow.

So why am I here? At first I was here because it was fascinating to find other people who had left. I had never met any in real life before finding Eric's site several years ago. It was fun to talk to others who had been where I had been. Like an accordian player meeting someone else who plays the accordian... a rare find.

Why am I still here? It is an interesting topic to me. Some people are interested in butterflys. Some people like sports teams, or particular musicians. I find sociology fascinating. Mormonism is a particularly interesting culture. I consider mormon watching an interesting hobby. This place provides much more material than my own limited supply of mormon friends and family.

And, of course, the fact that so many here are unusually intelligent, witty and insightful is another draw.

Subject: Re: Not so Easy
Date: Jan 12 07:01
Author: Lucky Fast Eddie
Mail Address:

If your sons are your top priority and they should be IMHO,you have to keep your family in tact,you stick around till they are 18, then you can split if it is still necessary.If you split now your sons will not have your direct influence in their lives.You can help direct them away from the church if you are there with them,and who knows maby your wife will come around.