Subject: Example of parents loving church more than kids
Date: Sep 16 16:04
Author: Makurosu

I just talked to my TBM Dad. He and my Mom are visiting next weekend for the first time in three years. They live 8 hours away. We've visited them several times since then and bought a new house last year. They didn't visit us then either. My Mom is retired and my Dad has 5 weeks of vacation plus government holidays. They aren't bedridden or in jail either.

Recently, they started making rumblings that they actually might visit us. My wife made the prediction that they would come late on a Saturday night so they can stay with us for free on the way to something else, go to church here, and leave immediately after Sacrament meeting.

Well, give the lady a prize! This morning, my Dad IM'd me and said that they are driving out to "Firth," Idaho (wherever in God's creation that is) to pick up an old truck that he bought off the Internet. They'll be here Saturday night, stay the night, and then leave immediately after Sacrament meeting. And he wants me to call around and find out when the earliest service is, so they can be on their way as soon as possible. Apparently because his fingers are broken and he can't look it up on himself.

I was SO offended! They go to church every week, and they can't miss even this one time to spend 70 minutes with us. It's nice knowing where you fit in the overall scheme of things with your own parents. (1. Cult, 2. Kids.) I called Dana and told her about it, and she absolutely blew her top. She said that they should not even bother stopping by. And if they do, they can pay a normal motel rate.

Subject: Probably just rant and rave a lot...
Date: Sep 16 16:30
Author: Makurosu

and smile sweetly when they come over.

It just bugs me that they are so far away from the real world that they can't even see that the way they treat other people (not just us) is very offensive. And if they do know, they will justify it somehow so that it doesn't matter to them.

They've lived in the Midwest for 20+ years now, and they still retain these boorish Mormon manners. My wife barely speaks to them anymore, because of the way they've treated her in the past, and we were just starting to have meaningful dialogue again. It's too bad, because I think she is really going to let them have it when they come over.

Subject: oh Mac I feel for you. My inactive tbm mother
Date: Sep 16 16:39
Author: RuthCA/t/a/problem
Mail Address:

refused to visit. cancelled holidays. did not invite us to reunions, gatherings, failed to tell us about funerals until they were over- when I refused to be her garment wearing active temple saint daughter. Finally my parents came by for my daughter's graduation- the one with cancer. During which visit she said if she fell she'd sue me- hows that for keep the role I gave you hostility?

These parents of mine live in their own world and I gather many parents, let alone, grandparents have no time for attending their grand kids' parades, county spelling bees, and birthday parties. Its more: come to my world live the life I planned for you and visit me- we will not go into the real world.

The worst part of it to me, is, in refusing to communicate and paricipate in life with me- they are refusing to know and love my kids. Brain warp.

am I more contorted by the fact that my mom is an inactive tbm living on the fringes of her rural ward? Well I WAS until I read lots of threads here at this site about the inactive tbm phenomena. Sign me: still pissed in California.

Subject: That is unreal!
Date: Sep 16 16:44
Author: Makurosu

Of all the things you mentioned, I think the saddest is that their grandchildren will hardly know them. Isn't that an irony? One of the reasons that you want to have children and grandchildren is to pass on a part of yourself, and here they are missing out on all of it. What a tragedy.

Subject: That is what is unreal to me....
Date: Sep 16 16:53
Author: One Who Knows
Mail Address:

I couldn't even begin to concieve not having a active relationship with my children and especially my grandchildren. That, to me, is a sign of real mental illness.

Subject: You and your wife deseve better than this. So sorry.
Date: Sep 16 16:33
Author: síóg

I sincerely hope you told him to research the cult brainwashing session times himself.

Subject: Re: Example of parents loving church more than kids
Date: Sep 16 16:35
Author: Søvnløsener - Insomniac
Mail Address:

Firth, Idaho!

Just a hop, skip and a jump from where I currently call home.

I also spent a week a summer there growing up, seeing how that is where G&G live. Not much to do out on a potato(e) farm except run grandpa's three wheeler around.

Now, as far as parents are concerned, sorry about your realization as to where family stands in the corporate order of things. Just remember, families are forever. There will be plenty of time to catch up on family bonding monuments in the next life.

Families first, right? Well that is what is taught. In my opinion the truth is that children are just walk on parts of a back ground shot of a movie their not in. Kids are just objects to be used to further the appearance of righteousness of the faithful in the eyes of the corporation.

The parental relationship issues sound as if it is another slash to ours souls by the sword of mormonism that we are both working to recover from.

I mentioned that it is just not right for parents to sacrifice their children to the corporation in the name of missionary work. The response was, 'no parent sacrifices their children that way'. Well, this person never wasted two years pimping the gospel of The Beloved Prophet Brother Joseph either.

Now I am just ranting and raving off topic of this thread.

Once again, sorry Mak, just remember, 'please forgive them, for they know not what they do'.

Subject: You got that right
Date: Sep 16 16:40
Author: Makurosu

The purpose of children is to have a multitude of them so you can show them off to all the other amoebas at church on Sunday. And sending your kids on missions is a lot like Abraham sacrificing his son Isaac on the altar - except that no angel saves you at the last minute.

Subject: Firth is down the road from me too.
Date: Sep 16 17:17
Author: Dagny
Mail Address:

Maybe you could get your parents to swing by my place and I'll have someone to attend church with...NOT!!

GAG. Your parents are something else, Mak. I have to say I have relatives and friends(?) just like them. One traveled all the way out here on a bus for a ward temple trip but would not come visit me (or call so I could visit her) because it was supposed to be a "sacrifice" with no outside socializing. HUH? Go figure. It is frustrating.

Subject: Re: We don't know yet
Date: Sep 16 16:51
Author: rhys
Mail Address:

You could ask your folks if they want you to call when the baby's born.....

Subject: I'm jealous!!!
Date: Sep 16 17:14
Author: Birdie
Mail Address:

We're due in January, but we might have to move in December, so I haven't been able to buy a darn thing. And here you are painting and deciding themes and stuff.

Here's to first generation cult-free babies!!!!

Subject: Akkkk!
Date: Sep 16 17:21
Author: Dagny
Mail Address:

Moving during the 9th month? That does not sound fun at all. Good luck! I HATE moving.
I'm looking forward to hearing about our 3 cyber-anti-babies when they are born!

Subject: Oh, it's so much better than you think....
Date: Sep 16 17:35
Author: Birdie
Mail Address:

Try finishing my thesis, my husband finishing his thesis, and moving 3 states away, all in December. THEN we get to have a baby the next month. People ask me if I am having drugs during birth. I am pretty sure I will need them to survive the 2 months BEFORE the birth!!! (If you are wondering what the hell we were thinking, this had all been planned out and timed beautifully, and then life occured. LOL!)

Subject: oh no!
Date: Sep 16 17:31
Author: Makurosu

What a bad time to move! Maybe it's best to save the baby purchasing stuff for when you get into your new place anyway. I think we're getting our baby set way too early, myself. It's just something to do because we're so anxious, I think.

Subject: Steve, you need to calm down......
Date: Sep 16 16:47
Author: One Who Knows
Mail Address:

and when you have your temper under control call them and tell them what you are feeling. It would be better that way then waiting for them to come over and then having a scene. In that situration Dana would need up being considered as the bad person by the rest of your family when the story is told to the others. This needs to be addressed and it needs to be done by you. There is nothing wrong with you letting them know that you are disappointed and throw in the church's teachings of "families are forever" to hit their guilt and just let them know that they are being inconsiderate. Don't be mad and silent, you won't have a chance at a nice visit if you do.

Subject: Re: Steve, you need to calm down......
Date: Sep 16 16:50
Author: rhys
Mail Address:

Great advice. I was going to suggest being pretty busy with your own things on Saturday nite since the parental units only have a couple of awake hrs they intend on spending with you. But, the previous poster makes great sense in that the folks will take it out on Dana.

Subject: Of course, you're right
Date: Sep 16 16:57
Author: Makurosu

It's not going to be a nice visit anyway. They are using us as a free rest stop. They've made it abundantly clear that they don't approve of us and that they don't want to see us unless they can't avoid it or it saves them money. I'll tell my Dad tomorrow when I've cooled off that I'm disappointed that they seem to love the Church more than us. I can't really control the way they behave. Only my reaction to it, which will be honest.

Subject: Living with almost the same problem....
Date: Sep 16 17:08
Author: One Who Knows
Mail Address:

Be ready for them to try to lay guilt on you for standing up for yourself. It's OK for you to take possession of your life and set boundries.
Here's is a scene in your future. Fast forward 3yrs. Your baby is young and cute and your parents decide the baby is important enough they want to get to know her/him. (By the way I'm betting $5 to anyone who take me up on it that it will be a girl) Don't be suprised when that baby wants nothing to do with them. This was the reaction my child gave my mother 2 yrs ago and I was really trying to get them to bond. It was also strange in that my child will love anybody who will even smile at her. I was shocked by her actions. But kids see more then we give credit for sometimes.

Subject: One Who Knows
Date: Sep 16 17:17
Author: Søvnløsener - Insomniac
Mail Address:

After a life time of service to Joseph, Inc. my parents accuse me of not allowing them to have a relationship with their grandchildren.

But who is is that last called on a weekend to catch up? ME. Who was it who has called the last 100 times? Right again, ME.

Actions speak louder than words.

I wonder if there will be an increase in interest the nearer my oldest approaches the age of accountability (a.k.a.: 8, a.k.a.: get them on the records of he church before they can rationally think for themselves, a.k.a.: use this as a ploy to force the parents back into activity in the lord's true corporate church)

Subject: Joseph F'ing Smith!!!
Date: Sep 16 17:35
Author: Moablo
Mail Address:

This goddamn cult we were born in. They have a great son and daughter-in-law and soon to have a grandchild, and this is the way they act? They are missing so much. Stuff like this is what makes me so angry ... to see what this damnable cult has done to your parents and other people. We are all truly victims.

We know what's going on in their mind because we were once there. Even though it makes us angry, I end up feeling sorry them. Hang in there. Show them you've gone way beyond their cult in caring for friends, family and others, and maybe some day they'll come around.

Subject: I am really sorry Mak,
Date: Sep 16 17:36
Author: tanstaafl
Mail Address:

your story and some of the others posted makes me want to call my parents and thank them for not being near as bad as some of the pscho TBM parents out there.

I agree with the calm down first and then lay it all out for your dad before he gets there suggestion too.

Hope things with the pregnancy are going well. We just turned the baby/kids room into a home office and moved the kids into the biggest bedroom b/c they wouldn't fit in the small one anymore. We still have kids stuff all over though, so if you need any extra toys, let me know, I'll ship a boxful out to you. ;-)

Subject: Re: I am really sorry Mak,
Date: Sep 16 17:39
Author: rhys
Mail Address:

Tell your folks about your great friends who are nearing retirement age and they offered to be proxy grandparents!

Subject: How about this?
Date: Sep 16 17:46
Author: Makurosu

Sometimes when my parents get really dense, I start referring to Dana's parents as "mom and dad." They live with us, after all.

Subject: Re: Mak, I know you can't do this...
Date: Sep 16 17:40
Author: SD
Mail Address:

but what I'd like to see you do is book them a room at a nearby hotel and leave them a note in the mailbox that says:

Dear Mom and Dad,

I've booked a room for you at "Whatever" Hotel and paid for it. The Church times you requested are __________. We won't be here while you're in town. Given the very short time you planned to share with us, I'm sure you'll hardly notice our absence.



p.s. Enjoy your Church meetings. I know how important they are to you.

Subject: Sorry to hear that.
Date: Sep 16 17:43
Author: Trish Timm(not logged)
Mail Address:

You could mail back and tell them you won't be home but that you will leave a key for them.
Than you and Dana could go get a nice room somewhere and treat yourselves.
You could set up a web cam in your house;)

Subject: Re: Sorry to hear that.
Date: Sep 16 17:49
Author: rhys
Mail Address:

That's a great idea. Combine the last 2 ideas. You and Dana have a no-tell motel you can go to whilst the parents stay at your free joint. Cost is the same so you and Dana may as well stay there.

Subject: Mak, that's ....(cussing)
Date: Sep 16 17:58
Author: Tedd
Mail Address:

...f*cking sick and wrong! Godd*n that pisses me off! I'm going to be upfront here Mak, but only because I love you ;-) My parents would never, and I mean never stoop to such a ridiculous, and immature level! You know, I bet you even have a nice house, I have a one bedroom apartment, my parents have stayed with me more than once. Even when they knew I was churchless.

My parents are not the brightest stars in the sky, but they do try to love me... I really understand your anger with your family now Mak... And I do see a difference. Although my parents are a pain the the ass, they are nice people, and would never do that!

Sorry mak I gotta say: F*CK YOUR PARENTS!

Sorry for the candidness. I hope not to offend.


Subject: hehe.. thanks Tedd :-)
Date: Sep 16 18:30
Author: Makurosu

Your parents do clearly love you, and I can tell that from the emails they've sent. I'm not sure where my parents got the ass-backward manners that they have. Or I should say, I don't know how they've managed to retain them after 20+ years of living outside the Mormon corridor. People in the Midwest are known for hospitality, good manners, and friendliness. Even after all this time, my parents still act like everybody owes them something. You'd think some of it would have rubbed off on them.

My wife has expressed the same attitude about my parents as you have, even in some of the same words.

Subject: I hate the cheapness of the Mormon mindset....
Date: Sep 16 18:03
Author: JT
Mail Address:

When I talk to Non-Mormon freinds they are always astonished that I always have family staying at our house. My brother has 5 kids and they always want to use us as a vacation base camp for their vacations. Why are Mormons so cheap. Even wealthy Mormons do this.

Of course I can't say much since I don't have enough gut to say no and I let them stay at my house. When my wife's family stays with us they insist we Kennel our 2 dogs--they are dog haters. Is there some mormon culture trait that says family always has to stay with family and not in a hotel?

However, one good side affect of my rebelling against the church is that I just realized nobody has stayed with us all summer. I guess they don't want me to influence their kids by telling them the truth about Mormons.


Subject: Re: Example of parents loving church more than kids
Date: Sep 16 18:43
Author: Switz1
Mail Address:

I could change your subject to "Example of parents loving their perceived Social Status more than kids".

I have been an embarrassement since I married a lowly Enlisted Sailor instead of an Officer. Too bad, so sad. My son was invited to stay with them for a month one summer, but only him, never the girls. Sons are better don'tchaknow.

Now my only sibling, sister, married a man whose mother babysat Ernest Borgnine's kids so that upped her WAYYY up there in the social ladder. When she decided to leave the prick she married they took his side..... He was higher up you see.

But later she redeemed herself her daughter married an attorney and our mom falls all over him. I wasn't invited to the wedding btw. If you ask Mom how so and so whom you went to high school with you is you only get a financial statement, never if they are happy etc. The PROPER job/ NEIGHBORHOOD etc are the most important things to her.

I just know exactly how you feel Mak.

Subject: Make sure you're going out the door Saturday night when they arrive...
Date: Sep 16 19:08
Author: EJH
Mail Address:

and tell them there's a Tuna Casserole in the oven, and to please help themselves.

Then sleep in late Sunday morning.

Subject: I can't resist
Date: Sep 16 19:42
Author: TrishTimm(not logged)
Mail Address:

Don't forget the spiked green jello with carrots so they can attend church hung;)