Subject: Oaks said it all
Date: Oct 06 21:44 2002
Author: thor hiyadoll
Mail Address:

I only listened to one conference talk today [Oct 6 2002] when my wife got in on the internet, but Dallin Oaks summed up the church's situation quite well. First he spoke to the senior citezens, the only people in the Church (in any substantial numbers) who are willing to put out the kind of effort the church wants from its members. He encouraged them not to serve a mission, but to serve five, six, or even seven missions in their old age! He had no compuntions against asking these folks to spend all their golden years away from their families hawking the church. And of course they have to spend their own gold to do it. It shows just how reluctant the younger church members are to sacrifice everything for the church and how much the church is depending on these retired people for free labor. Oaks' second message was to the people in the stakes to let them know the Lord will get them in the afterlife if they refuse church callings now. It was just an out and out threat, I guess they feel like nothing else will work. Oaks' third message was a thinly veiled attack on intellectuals. He wanted everyone to know that intellectuals were just proud, immature whippersnappers that should never be listened to. Their only hope was to be humble and obey. How inspiring it all was. Old folks, work till you drop. Everybody else, you're all going to hell. And if anybody actually does any thinking, you're being proud and sinful and knock it off.

Amen to that crap.


Subject: Yeah, serve a bunch of missions...
Date: Oct 06 22:00
Author: sunny
Mail Address:

Like my neighbors who were "called" to a mission to do janitorial work and the Deseret Industries 40 miles down the road. That's really spiritually fulfilling. It's exploiting the elderly if you ask me.

Subject: yes! My elderly mother...
Date: Oct 06 22:08
Author: Gemini
Mail Address:

was called on a mission to the employment office 40 miles away, 3 days a week, rain or shine. She was there alone at times and she said that some pretty scary people came in looking for jobs. They got angry sometimes when there were no jobs for them and it frightened her. When I heard that I told her in no uncertain terms to go talk to her Bishop and get released. They finally did release her. It is nothing but slave labor, IMO.

Subject: sunny, exploitation is a reoccurring theme for sure!! n/t
Date: Oct 06 22:03
Author: imlois
Mail Address:

Subject: I know a couple that has served
Date: Oct 06 23:33
Author: Jolimont

FIVE missions together. Their kids ganged up on them and demanded they not do that again. These are people who were send far from home every time. I think he was hoping to make it to mission president, but it never happened, although he got close (they are not wealthy enough is the only reason I can see.) Even their TBM kids got fed up with it all because that's all the parents ever talked about or cared about. Grandkids? Who cares, let me tell you about so-and-so who joined the church in Vienna!

Me, I said the day I came home from my youthful mission that I would NEVER go on another mission, been there, done that, so at least I retained some clarity in between all the fog...

Subject: I noticed that too
Date: Oct 07 07:03
Author: Bernie W
Mail Address:

Yeah, there was no attempt at guilt was there? Sure, seniors, serve a few missions(all at your own expense!). It's not enough that you've practically gone bankrupt with tithing, paying for missions, and other church expenditures, but now, sell your house, and go on a mission!

I was struck by the other part of your thread in which the Stake Presidents complained to Oaks, in that they wanted him to mention about people turning down callings. What does that tell you? I recently turned down a Stake calling, because I am one of those legions of people that attend only to please the spouse. I fully recognize that extending a calling is one of the ways the church uses to lure people back to full activity. Now, I know I am not alone, but apparently, MANY people are turning down callings.

He also complained about people not fulfilling their callings. Geez, they pressure people to accept the callings, and when the person starts to waver abit or something else comes up which requires their immediate attention, the church leaders will throw at them, "But you accepted this calling, now do it!" And of course, you never so much as get a "Thank You" for all the hard work you put into a calling. It's always a case of "What have you done for me lately?"

I smiled when I heard Dallin Oaks' talk.


Part 2 - Opportunity: You pay the Church to teach Organic Chemistry at BYU - Hawaii  (Nov. 2002)

Subject: More "Missionary Opportunities" From the church
Date: Nov 26 14:03
Author: John Corrill

From the "November 2002 Missionary Opportunities":


Organic Chemist: Teach both one and two semester organic chemistry classes and labs and possibly a one-semester introductory biochemisty class and lab. Should have PhD in organic chemistry with history of good teaching of undergraduated chemisty students. Feel comfortable using modern organic laboratory equipment. Couple needed by 26 April 03. Serve 23 mos, cost $2000 mo."

There are three other ads for missionary/professors at BYU-Hawaii. I had no idea the church was using missionaries to fill roles at Universities, where they charge students tuition, BTW. So, if you're a retired professor, you can enjoy your retirement by paying $2k a month to do exaclty what you've been doing for the last 30 years.

Here's one I like. If they'd let a non-temple recommend holder go, I might consider this (seriously):

"Welfare Agents: Argentina, Ghana and Hong Kong, Phillipines: oversee welfare/humanitarian projects, relief projects... 18 mos. Cost $1000-1500/mo."

Here's one I'd REALLY like:

"Church History

Church Office Building: Reiview historical church documents and artifacts, photograph/make digital images of various historical documents, assist archivists, assist patrons with rare books and historical records, and more!"

Imagine John Corrill loose in the archives. I'd pay BIG to go on that mission.

And someone is really going to love this job:

"Missionary Department, Salt Lake City

Duties: Inspect the apartments of missionaries in the Utah Salt Lake City Mission for cleanliness and items needed. You will take needed supplies with you to the apartments. You will need to make appointments with the missionaries. You must provide your own transportation.
Skills: Patience and love for the missionaries and good human relation skills"

Subject: Re: More "Missionary Opportunities" From the church
Date: Nov 26 14:39
Author: Debbie

I thought gods people were to love and serve the lord and not pay for one red cent. I'm sorry but the Mormons who pay for these so called missions are really snowed by the church. Did Mother Theresa pay for her time to take care of the poor in India? Hell no and I wish these idiot morgbots would see the truth, that the church is going to suck them dry and when they do die, hopefully their family will be able pay for their funeral. The church is nothing but a money making buisness that makes people believe they are not worthy of a great life without paying for it. When I got my first high school job I was told by my bishop I had to pay tithing, Me a 17 year old senior trying to pay for my own things. please when they milk missionarys to pay for there own and they end up getting hurt or killed they call it gods work.. No thanks the God I believe in does not ask for money only that you have faith and try to serve other humans with love and kindness and not for a price... Sick that the Mormon church is a rich institution yet they still let their flock suffer in the mean time.. I wish that the church would be proven once and for all False.....


Subject: Let me get this straight---
Date: Nov 26 14:54
Author: Dali

it is considered a MISSION to teach at BYU-Hawaii, to be a professor, and instead of getting paid to teach, YOU pay to teach? That's sick! It is not like they don't have the money to pay professors! I can't believe they would take advantage of senior citizens like that.

And have to pay for a welfare mission? Most every other church pays their missionaries, from a central mission fund, and supplies insurance to boot.

The church is no better than any other SCAM that targets seniors and robs them of their retirement funds.


Subject: Fair deal actually
Date: Nov 27 02:29
Author: Pogue

Any organic chemist who is still a Mormon after hearing about Lamanite DNA, probably isn't much of an organic chemist, ergo, worth the pay. Also any organic chemist who still buys this crap is easy prey and probably deserves it.

Subject: Where did "November 2002 Missionary Opportunities" come from? n/t
Subject: It's posted on a bulletin board in pretty much every LDS church building n/t
Subject: I still aspire to the Deseret Industries Toilet Scrubbing Mission
Date: Nov 26 16:29
Author: Kim

I think the Mormon general authorities get together for a weekly meeting in the upper room of the Salt Lake Temple and laugh at just what ridiculous exploitive things they can talk the faithful sheep into doing in the name of "serving the Lard" on a mission.

Just a couple months ago on this board, I read that someone knew a retired couple who were leaving on a twelve month mission to work in a Deseret Industries store (thrift store) only about 40 miles from their home where apparently they would be in charge of maintenance.

What kind of pathetic individuals would be brainwashed enough to actually PAY to take on that job and consider it an honor to serve their church? It's very sad. I think the Mormon Church should be charged with some kind of criminal abuse.


Subject: Proof once more that the Morg is a scam that rips off senior citizens!
Date: Nov 26 16:52
Author: Adrienne

One thing I think is sick is having college professors PAY to teach when they should be paid for the job. How do they expect to get qualified instructors who are actually willing to avoid getting paid? Also, the idea of getting people to pay the church in order to scrub toilets and other demeaning jobs is elder abuse in my opinion. At any rate, they wouldn't let anyone who has a brain look through the archives because that would let someone get the information that would destroy the church.


Subject: perhaps it should be called "missionary positions"
Date: Nov 27 02:52
Author: pogue

Since they are about to get raped.


Subject: Is that giggling I hear coming from the C.O.B.?
Date: Nov 26 17:58
Author: Stray Mutt

"Say, Elder, wouldn't it be good if we could get various professionals to donate their services to the church?"

"Yeah, even better, (snicker) let's...let's (stifling a laugh) make them pay for the 'privilege' of serving."

"Bwah-ha-ha-ha! You know, there might be a few members dumb enough to do it!"


Subject: Think about it
Date: Nov 27 02:33
Author: Pogue

If they paid a qualified professional to be an organic chemistry teacher at BYU, they may be in danger of teaching the truth about Lamanite DNA.


Subject: Man, this is unbelievable!
Date: Nov 29 09:10
Author: PMF

I once had an inactive member tell me, the LDS church is the only institution that gets you to pay them for work you do for them. Wow. This is incrdible, I love this board.