| Subject: | What real Mormons said about real Christians |
| Date: | Dec 31 20:31 2002 |
| Author: | Deconstructor |
| Is the term "Mormon Christian" an oxymoron? "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" - Prophet Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270 "...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels." - Prophet Joseph Smith , The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60 "This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth..." - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.164-165 "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127 "Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176 "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" - Apostle Orson Pratt proclaimed, The Seer, p. 255 "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" - George Q. Cannon said, Gospel Truth, p.324 "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness." - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 5:73 "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world." - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:199 "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171 "Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest. - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 5:89 "The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" - Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196 "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches ... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" - Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, 18:172 "What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225 "What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." - John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225 "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (p. 266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men." - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282 "...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was." - Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13 "And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foudation of this (Mormon) church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth..." - Supposedly Jesus Christ Himself, Doctrine and Covenants 1:30 Salvation not through accepting Jesus Christ, but Joseph Smith? [There is] "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" - Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190 "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are" - Prophet Birgham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289 "He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ" - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312 "If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]" - Prophet George Q. Cannon, as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142 "I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God.. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again." - Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154 |
| Subject: | I hope this makes sense. |
| Date: | Dec 31 20:42 |
| Author: | LauraD. |
| Do you think the early church would've had better luck if they
wouldn't have separated themselves from the other Christian churches? Less persecution, I
mean/ Do you think this separatist attitude was done on purpose to get more attention? |
| Subject: | Re: I hope this makes sense. |
| Date: | Dec 31 20:51 |
| Author: | Switz1 |
| IMO, Laura, IF they had JUST wanted to be a new church the corporation would have failed the minute Joe introduced polygamy. He HAD to keep them isolated from other churches to maintain control. They are still doing that as you know. |
| Subject: | That's what I was thinking. |
| Date: | Dec 31 21:00 |
| Author: | LauraD. |
| The more special and unique they felt the more the leaders could gain and maintain control. |
| Subject: | Well, I didn't KNOW that! |
| Date: | Dec 31 21:34 |
| Author: | Nightingale |
| I have read some of these before, likely mostly here on the BB, but
some are new to me and there's a couple of jawdroppers in here. Deconstructor wrote: > "This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth..." > - Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.164-165 Do you think GBH has ever read this? If so, was it before or after his mainstreaming efforts? > "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense... > - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127 I just heard a cheer go up from a lot of posters here. With this pronouncement, at least, they can agree with the Mormon prophet! :) > "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" > - Apostle Orson Pratt proclaimed, The Seer, p. 255 Whew, jawdropper #1 - never heard this before. I thought Catholicism was the whore? > > "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" > - George Q. Cannon said, Gospel Truth, p.324 Interestingly, this is EXACTLY what the WatchTower Society (JW) teaches. > "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world." > - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:199 > > "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" > - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171 More jawdroppers for me. I wonder if these quotes were used in the recent BY church manual? I'm sure the new members would be interested to read this. > "Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. > - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 5:89 Oh yeah, let Kimball call OTHER ministers "whoremasters"; priceless, given the records of JS and BY. > "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches ... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" > - Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, 18:172 Yes, this is a current teaching (but you don't hear about the "no Christian church on earth" part). So, um, does this explain WHY the Mormon church takes no part in ecumenical activities nor are they invited to by ANY OTHER Christian denomination? > "...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable, ...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was." > - Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13 I never read the JST, I would have laughed at this - how can he say the BoM is "unchanged" and "unchangeable"? Again, this gets to a root doctrine of Mormonism that is so way off base. As Timothy would say, "Why would God DO that?" (with the Bible). He wouldn't. He didn't. > Salvation not through accepting Jesus Christ, but Joseph Smith? > > [There is] "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" > - Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190 I've lost track of the #s - but this is definitely a HUGE jawdropper for me! No wonder they don't like you to check books out of the church library! This is APPALLING and untrue and obviously blatantly unChristian doctrine. > "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are" > - Prophet Birgham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289 > "If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]" > - Prophet George Q. Cannon, as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142 > > "I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. OK, so now I know, they DID lie to me. I ASKED the bishopric about this and they LIED to me. They told me this was not true. (Unless it's that same old, same old, that church members don't know what the church teaches, even the leaders don't know). No wonder there's so much dissonance. Nothing makes sense and nothing is consistent and nobody knows anything and anything they may know, they won't admit to. >We have not got rid of him [JS] That's a pity... >but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God.. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. Oh oh, is this why they call us apostate? >The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again." > - Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154 WRONGO again! The Bible and all of Christianity clearly teaches that only GOD has the power to forgive sins. In fact, this is PRECISELY why the Jews wanted to crucify Jesus (according to the Bible) because "He makes himself to be God" (by forgiving people's sins). But of course, this can't be translated correctly, according to Mormons. Man, this stuff just hit all my buttons. SCRREEEAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!! Uh, thanks, Decon, I think! BTW, any chance you have dates on some of those references? I roughly know the timelines but dates would help out with keeping things in perspective. What I wonder is HOW recent/current church leaders can veer away from such statements and still keep it all together? I'm thinking that leaders/members would say that's in the past. In fact, isn't that precisely what GBH DOES say? |
| Subject: | I think they still mean"the one true gospel" = all else run by Satan. nt |
| Subject: | Re: Well, I didn't KNOW that! |
| Date: | Jan 01 16:41 |
| Author: | Patty |
| Thanks Nightingale, you just said it all for me. I couldn't believe
some of the quotes, especially the one that JS will be standing at the Pearly Gate. What
happened to, is it St. Peter? We need someone to start a thread on JS standing at the gate
admitting people (famous types) and quoting him. And thank you Decon for another great post. |
| Subject: | I looked these up myself. My sources.. |
| Date: | Jan 01 11:10 |
| Author: | Deconstructor |
| I use Gosepl Link, Infobase and New Mormon Studies CD-ROM and
lds.org to search for references. Any church reference after 1970 comes from the church's own website - like the 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide quote. All the others, including Journal of Discources can be found on Gospel Link and New Mormon Studies CD-ROM. If there is a web site with this information, let me know and I'll reference it in the future. |
| Subject: | This shows that the Mormons are just nasty little thugs.... |
| Date: | Jan 01 23:28 |
| Author: | Skybolt |
| who do not respect other people's beliefs, even their fellow
Christians. I suggest that everyone make a copy of this excellent post and keep it handy
when some TBM associate of theirs starts whining about the persecution of the Mormons and
rub their noses into it. By the way, I had an incident with a TBM now ex-friend of mine who went on a nasty tirade when I started asking some fairly straight forward questions (via E-Mail) about the history of the LDS church. Instant change from from an otherwise reasonable, well educated person, to an obnoxious thug who made attacked any questioning about God's true church. Needless to say I reciprocated, and then some. One thing that is apparent when examining the LDS church, from it's origins to the present, is that behind the facade of genteel religiosity is an ugly mind set that has little tolerance for anyone, or any institution, that does not bow down to their beliefs. |
| Subject: | John Taylor manual - Deconstructor's post about what real Mormons... (long) |
| Date: | Jan 02 12:58 |
| Author: | Non2002Sequitur |
| said about real Christans mentioned a few quotes by John Taylor and
one by Brigham Young commenting on a quote by John Taylor. Stolen from Deconstructors post: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127 "Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth." - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176 "What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225 "What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." - John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225 That got me to thinking (YIKES! Watch out, there's trouble a brewin'!!!) about the Relief Society and Melchizedek Priesthood manual. It is about John Taylor this year. I wonder how may "good" (meaning: those types of quotes Deconstructor finds that reveal a bit of the true nature of the man instead of the whitewashed stuff in the manual) quotes from John Taylor someone could bring up during the lessons this year. The first lesson is titled "The Origin and Destiny of Mankind". See http://library.lds.org/nxt/gatewa20originment-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0 A quick reading of this lesson reveals mind-numbing ether masquerading as Mormon doctrine. We learn that man is "emanating from the Gods—as a God in embryo" A section heading reads "We need Jesus Christ in order to reach our divine potential." That seems to contradict one statement by Brigham Young that Deconstructor posted (too bad it wasn't John Taylor): "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are" - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289 Another section title is "The Church of Jesus Christ helps us realize our divine potential." I wonder why it is the church and not Christ that is used?!?!? In this section is the quote: "We were as much in the dark as other people were about the principles of salvation, and the relationship we hold to God and each other, until these things were made known to us by Joseph Smith." - John Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom, pg 33 This would be a perfect place to add the following quotes from Deconstructor's post: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127 "What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." - Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225 "What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." - John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225 Is everyone ready for the lesson this Sunday? Don't forget to answer the following questions from the end of the lesson: Q) How does it help you to know that you are a child of God? How does this knowledge influence your feelings about your own potential? In what ways does this knowledge influence your prayers? A) I love being the son of a diety that so frequently slaughtered people in ancient times. I dare not speak against him in my prayers for fear of suffering the same fate! Q) How does the truth that all people are sons and daughters of God affect your view of others? How should this knowledge affect our relationships within our families? A) I guess god really hated his "black" sons and daughters... I suppose I should too... Q) Why is it necessary that we live in a mortal state? (See also 2 Nephi 2:11-13, 2 Nephi 2:24-27; Moses 5:9-11.) What role does Jesus Christ play in helping us fulfill our divine potential? A) Because only mortal states have money that can be paid as tithing?!? Don't forget that Joseph Smith plays an EQUALLY important role! Q) How have the doctrines of the Church helped you understand your origin and destiny? In what ways does the Church help us fulfill our eternal destiny? A) They haven't, they've only made my head hurt and my demeanor sadden. That said, does the church really help? And what about the dinosaurs and Neanderthal man? WWGDT? Q) What does it mean to you to “contend earnestly” to fulfill your divine potential? What examples have you seen of people who do this? How can we “cooperate with God” to achieve this goal? A) Does that mean I should cut off someone's head when the voices speak to me? Is the term "cooperate with God" a euphamism for "do whatever the Brethern dream up next? Q) President Taylor taught that “our main object is to prepare ourselves, our posterity and our progenitors for thrones, principalities and powers in the eternal worlds.” How can we remain focused on this objective as we pass through mortality? A) By attending more church meetings!!! ;) n2002s |
| Subject: | The bio mentions polygamy ..... |
| Date: | Jan 02 14:46 |
| Author: | Reader |
| but only to explain the federal government crackdown that caused Taylor to go and die "underground." |
| Subject: | Re: Let's see if the church has learned anything about John Taylor ... |
| Date: | Jan 02 14:56 |
| Author: | Non2002Sequitur |
| Interesting snippets from the Historical Summary: http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Curriculum/mpandrs.htm/john%20taylor.htm/ent-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0 1808, November 1 Born in Milnthorpe, Westmoreland, England, the second of James and Agnes Taylor’s 10 children. 1819 Moves with his family to Hale (near Milnthorpe), where he helps work on a small farm left to his father by an uncle (11; numbers in parentheses show John Taylor’s age). 1824 Leaves the Church of England and becomes a Methodist. Spends most of his free time studying the Bible, reading theological works, and praying (16). 1825 Becomes a Methodist “exhorter,” or lay preacher. Receives a strong impression that he will go to America to preach the gospel (17). 1836, spring Elder Parley P. Pratt arrives in Toronto to preach the restored gospel (27). Elder Pratt had been called to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in 1835. 1836, May 9 Baptized by Parley P. Pratt (27). 1836-37 Serves as the Church’s presiding officer in Canada (27-28). 1837, March Goes to Kirtland to meet the Prophet Joseph (28). 1838 Ordained an Apostle at Far West, Missouri, on 19 December, by Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, under the direction of Joseph Smith, who was in Liberty Jail (30). 1844, June 27 Witnesses the martyrdom of Joseph and Hyrum Smith in Carthage Jail and is seriously wounded during the attack (35). 1857 Returns to Utah. Is elected Speaker of the House of the Utah Territorial Legislature, a responsibility he fulfills for several years—in addition to his duties in the Church (49). 1868-70 Serves as Probate Judge of Utah County (59-61). 1877, August 29 Brigham Young dies. For the next three years, John Taylor leads the Church as President of the Quorum of the Twelve (68-71). 1880, October Sustained as President of the Church, with George Q. Cannon and Joseph F. Smith as counselors (71). 1882 United States Congress passes the Edmunds bill, making plural marriage a felony and prohibiting polygamists from voting, holding public office, or performing jury duty (73). 1882 Publishes The Mediation and Atonement (73). 1885 Receives word during a visit to California that federal officials have ordered his arrest for practicing polygamy. Returns to Salt Lake City on 27 January. On 1 February, preaches his last public sermon and, in hopes of limiting the persecution against the Church by federal authorities, goes into hiding (76). 1887, July 25 At age 78, dies in the Thomas Roueché home in Kaysville, Utah. During his administration, Church membership reached over 150,000. Well, nothing about how many wives or marriages, but a suprising admission that he was a polygamist and hid from federal authorities rather than submit to the law - didn't Jesus do that?!? Wasn't John Taylor the prophet of Jesus' church on earth? Under "The Life and Ministry of John Taylor" is a section titled "His Search for the Kingdom of God". http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/C%20life%20am$f=templates$3.0#LPTOC3 You can find a reference to his marriage to his first wife, Leonora Cannon, here: "During this time, he met Leonora Cannon, herself a devout Methodist who had recently immigrated to Canada from England. Sharing a deep religious conviction and a love for learning, culture, and each other, they married on 28 January 1833 in Toronto." The section "Times of Trial" is all about polygamy and how "President Taylor was informed that government officials planned to arrest him soon. Having exhausted all legal appeals, he had to decide whether to obey God or man." It also states "Rather than turn away from the Lord’s instructions regarding plural marriage, President Taylor chose to go into hiding as a way to obey the Lord and hopefully decrease the persecution against the Church. Elder B. H. Roberts recorded, “When President Taylor retired from public view on the evening of the 1st of February, 1885, it was not out of any consideration for his personal safety, or ease or comfort, but for the public good and in the interests of peace.”" Sounds like one of the 13 articles of faith flew right out the window. And choosing to obey God or man is definitely a hard decision - many people in the world today are forced to make that choice as they are asked to commit acts of terrorism - including those that are asked to shun their apostate family members... Not a word about the other wives though. See the following link (if it works) that lists his pedigree: http://www.familyse077&lds=0®ion=-1®ionfriendly=&frompage=99 There are 8 other women (his wives could have fielded a baseball team!) listed as his wives, but no mention of them in the manual... Just for fun let's list the wife's name and age when she married John Taylor and how hold JT was: Ann HUGHLINGS (AFN: 2S8T-4N) 38 years old (JT 37 years old) - married to another man: Soloman PITCHFORTH http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=2275954&lds=0 Mary Ann OAKLEY (AFN: 19HZ-NM) 19 years old (JT 37 years old) - married on the same day to Alvina COLE http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=1067390&lds=0 Jane BALLANTYNE (AFN: 3BS3-36) 30 years old (JT 35 years old) http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=2721693&lds=0 Sophia WHITTAKER (AFN: 1BBN-LL) 22 years old (JT 38 years old) http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=1089618&lds=0 Margaret YOUNG (AFN: 1N5T-SH) 18 years old (JT 47 years old) http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=1355274&lds=0 Harriett WHITAKER (AFN: 43QT-JS) 31 years old (JT 49 years old) http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=3341566&lds=0 Elizabeth KAIGHAN (AFN: BHK0-L7) 32 years old (JT 35 years old) http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=8520318&lds=0 Annie BALLANTYNE (AFN: K8PX-QX) Marriage date not listed http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/AF/individual_record.asp?recid=14005762&lds=0 Well, another fine example of Christlike living... Marry a few sets of sisters, make sure some of the wives are at least 15 years your junior and preach the good word of god from the pulpit just like Joseph did! Sing with me now, "We thank the oh god..." n2002s |
| Subject: | Re: Let's see if the church has learned anything ... |
| Date: | Jan 03 03:20 |
| Author: | Nope! |
| I love how these manuals did not include any quotes or pieces of info from the wife or wives, whose comments and thoughts could speak volumes about "the man - prophet!" I love how in our modern day church, comments by the wives and kids of prophets are virtually non existent. Why? Are they afraid of what they may say? |
Recovery from Mormonism - www.exmormon.org |