Two stories of the control of Missionaries at the Mormon Missionary Training Center in Provo Utah.  Story #2 is from a female Mormon Missionary

Subject: My CRAZY Easter experience in the MTC (long but good) Story #1
Date: Apr 20 10:12 2003
Author: Deconstructor

This is one of my true MTC experiences, and looking back, was when I learned what "keeping and feeling the spirit" was really all about.

I was in the MTC during the start of the Gulf War in the spring of 1991. Before the war, the MTC had an open-door policy for families and relatives hand-delivering gifts to missionaries in the MTC. But then the church decided to use the start of the war as a pretext to set a ban on accepting any hand-delivered care packages from families to MTC missionaries. I was an AP in an MTC Branch at the time the new rule took affect.

(As a sidenote, I learned later that somone started a business just down the street from the MTC, that would take family care packages and for a fee, "deliver" them to the MTC. For security reasons, said the MTC rule, the MTC would only accept packages from couriers but not from family members.)

There had been a long tradition for years that every Easter Sunday, a certain member family that lived directly behind the MTC, would make tons of cinnamon rolls and hand them over the fence to missionaries. My MTC Branch roomed in one of the buildings at the back of the MTC, closest to this member family's yard, which shared a fence with the MTC.

My Branch President pulled me in the Sunday before Easter Sunday and told me that under no circumstances should anyone accept cinnamon rolls from the family. He told me that the tradition violated the new rule against hand-delivered packages and he would hold me PERSONALLY accountable if anyone in the Branch broke the rule and got a cinnamon roll. He called on me to get up in Sacrament Meeting and talk on obedience and warn everyone not to take a cinnamon roll "lest we lose the spirit." The Branch President also insisted that I remind each missionary individually about the rule and admonish them not to go near the MTC fence on Easter Sunday. At the time, I was a TBM and took the whole thing to heart, obeying the Branch President's every word in order to "keep the spirit."

Easter Sunday came and went and I thought we had made it through the day without incident. Looking out my window, the family stood at the fence with plates of cinnamon roles and nobody dared go near them.

Three days later, the First Counselor in the Branch Presidency pulled me out of my language class for a "Personal Priesthood Interview." He escorted me to the Presidency's office, where the other counselor and the President were waiting. They were all furious. Apparently one of the missionaries in our Branch was caught eating a cinnamon roll in his room the afternoon of Easter Sunday. He got caught because someone else had snitched on him in the mandatory weekly letter confessional to the Branch President.

The hard thing was, the presidency was furious with me, not the missionary who had eaten the cinnamon roll. They ripped me up one side and down the other - for not being a true leader, dissapointing my family and losing their trust. I felt like a piece of sh*t, seriously. They quoted scriptures on obedience, priesthood authority and losing the spirit.

Worst of all, I felt like I had committed a terrible sin. I had repented for some things before my mission, but the guilt I felt for this incident was almost unbearable - worse than the guilt I had felt for other more serious "transgressions" prior to my mission. This guilt over the cinnamon rolls was the most horrible, incredible guilt I have ever felt in my life! I really feared that I had lost "the spirit" for good.

At the time, my only defense was that I didn't understand how accepting a cinamon roll from a member family violated Christ's spirit of love. But the First Counselor cut me off, saying in a raised voice, "Elder, I don't think you can even feel the spirit anymore!"

They immediately released me as AP and gave the calling to my companion - a fate I felt was close to death. As part of my repentance, they had me write a one-page paper on why I had failed as a mission leader, which was given to my Mission President when I entered the mission field. In my written confessional-of-sorts I wrote that I had disobeyed one of the Lord's Commandments and therefore, had lost his spirit and "amen to my authority as a leader."

That was the low point of my mission, for once I left the MTC I felt like I had "the spirit" again. I went on to prove my obedience and priesthood worthiness in the mission field, baptising in all of my areas and serving in several leadership positions.

It wasn't until after my mission, going through my papers that I stumbled across that confessional paper I had written in the MTC. I was so angry reading it again, realizing for the first time that they had manipulated my faith and desire to be righteous. All that guilty torment self-loathing over a cinnamon roll that I didn't even eat...

And then it hit me, the whole Mormon thing was a guilt trip! If my faith in the Mormon gospel meant the leaders could make me feel guilty about cinnamon rolls, then it meant they could make me feel guilty for anything. They used my faith to pull at my guilt strings, and they were doing the same thing with things like tithing too! The whole evil control process of the church unraveled in front of me.

That day I decided I would never let anyone play the guilt trip game on me again. I would decide for myself, based on true ethics (not external obedience or "keeping the spirit"), what of my own behaviors were wrong or right. I would never again turn that guilt control over to someone else - especially an instiution as manipulative as the church. It would take many years before I would eventually leave the church, but that decision helped me through all the other guilt headgames my family tried to play on me for "falling away." I hadn't fallen away, I had freed myself from it all.

I see petty rules come from the prophet against earrings, tatoos and beards and wonder how many people out there are suffering the "cinnamon roll guilt-trip" as my wife and I now humorously call it.

Am I the only one who went through this with the morg?

Subject: I know you've mentioned this incident here before, but it's well worth repeating...
Date: Apr 20 10:20
Author: Ron G.
Mail Address:

...thanks for sharing it again. In my mind it really epitomizes the whole church and mission experience. I'm glad you can (sort of) laugh about it now.

Happy Easter - go out and get yourself a cinnamon roll!



I wonder if it ever occurred to anyone to approach the family directly and say "Thanks, but no thanks," or if the leaders thought it was necessary to "test" the missionaries...

Subject: But the fruit of the cinnamon tree...
Date: Apr 20 10:32
Author: L. O. Him

thou shalt not eat.

Subject: stupid guilt trips: 1. Eating breakfast on fast sunday
Date: Apr 20 12:25
Author: can'tsay

Sitting through fast and testimony meeting feeling quite content and not hungry at all, hearing other peoples stomachs growl and feeling a bit guilty that I did not like to fast and feel hungry at church.

stupid guilt trip #2. Long day at church, who wants to cook, that's a lot of work too. Why can't we go through a drive-through? Is that making restaurant workers work on the sabbath because we support their establishment? stop for food on the way home, or not stop for food on the way home. back and forth, back and forth, to stop or not to stop. dumb guilt trips

stupid guilt trip #3. Let the kids change into their jeans and play clothes after church and play outside with neighbors. uh-oh, now it seems like any other day and not the sabbath. keep them indoors? Keep them in their church clothes? Only let them out for a tiny while so it's not quite as bad. stupid stupid guilt trips.

Subject: Amazing (minor cuss)
Date: Apr 20 12:27
Author: Wag

Wow, Deconstructor. I thought I was the only one who had this kind of guilt levied on me. Only mine came from my father and mother and usually two or three times a week. It was horrible. Glad you were able to pull your head out of your ass after they shoved it so far up there.


Subject: This illustrates so clearly that the Mormon religious hierarchy doesn't care about people.
Date: Apr 20 12:41
Author: windsong

What a sad, evocative picture of the family standing with outstretched arms, full plates of cinnamon buns, and presumably tender, generous hearts.

It makes me furious to think of how their goodness was summarily discounted and repelled.

And I expect they continued to serve and pay their heartless masters!

Subject: I agree with Windsong - This is such a sad and pathetic example
Date: Apr 20 13:03
Author: CO2

Of how the church wants to control EVERY aspect of your life.

Subject: Are you Mormon? Not no more,no, I'm cinnamon.
Date: Apr 20 13:28
Author: Rubber Ducky

Unbelievable! You'd think they'd at least wait until they got you out in the mission field, far away from home. And your passport tucked safely away in some safe before they turned on the fire.

Maybe the branch presidency was having their own training experience, at your expense. Nipping all the green missionaries in the bud.

Although not glad to hear what a hard experience it was on you Deconstructor, I'm glad your mind is open now and you are away from that cult.

My MTC programming time was uneventful. Mostly forgotten. What got me moving out of TBM mode was asking questions on behalf of the investigators to the MP and getting answers that the details were not important, only faith and baptism were. When I said we were talking about eternity, a serious step in anyone's life, details were very important before baptism, the MP would slap me down and tell me not to forget why I was there, to baptize. And then bare his testimonkey that if I concentrated on baptizing I would be blessed, blah blah blah BLA bla.

The perfect gospel! What a joke! Give me a cinnamon role any-day over morg mind rot!

Subject: Come on over!
Date: Apr 20 13:36
Author: Fly

Your story makes me want to make you a whole bunch of cinammon rolls. Bring the kids. We'll eat what we want, then throw the rest at the GA's limo's. : )

I'm so sorry you went through that in the MTC. My husband was teaching there about that time, too. You evil slacker, I'm sure he felt the Spirit leave whenever you were within a 30-yard radius.

I snuck some cookies over the fence to my sister mishie friend in December of 1990... a little before your incident, but I wonder now if I didn't cause my friend some soul-searing moments.

Okay, though... now I'm wondering a little bit about something. You say you confessed to some indiscretions prior to your entering the MTC... do you think, possibly, that a file was kept on you about that? Maybe they had a high index of suspicion for anything you did? I know it's a bit wild to speculate on things of that nature, but hey, it IS the Mormon Church we're talking about after all.

It's so great you left. You are one of the most formidable opponents the Church can have.

Subject: I agree with CO2.. it is all about control ...
Date: Apr 20 13:58
Author: Skunk Puppet

and, further, it was downright HEARTLESS and PETTY of them to deprive a bunch of homesick boys of the simple pleasure of a cinnamon bun when they are about to freely give 2 years of their lives to that organization.

That is a very sad, indeed.

Subject: Inconsiderate and Infuriating
Date: Apr 20 15:33
Author: KJA

Being fully aware that the family on the other side of the fence would be going to the expense and trouble to bake up all these cinnamon rolls, would it have killed the MTC "leadership" to make a delivery arrangement with the family?

But that's really the secondary issue here... primarily, that leader of yours should have been roundly disciplined for his abusive behavior toward you and the others. Responsible for our own sins, indeed. What a perfect example of someone gaining just a little authority and then spinning out of control.

Ugh, it just burns me to read this sort of thing! Abusive, abusive, abusive.

Story #2

Subject: My Wife's Experience with the MTC "Obedience Police"
Date: Apr 20 13:34
Author: Will
Mail Address:

While we were reading Deconstructor's account of l'affaire du Cinnamon Roll (being rebuked and demoted for "poor leadership" after an elder under his watch ate a contraband cinnamon roll) my wife exclaimed: "That sounds like what happened to me while I was there!"

Korrin was in the MTC in 1992, and served in the Portugal-Lisbon mission. She was raised VERY TBM and was the proverbial "blonde bombshell" (when we met in '96 she looked uncannily like Dana Wheeler-Nicholson when she played Chevy Chase's love interest in "Fletch") -- two facts relevant to the following account.

Herewith Korrin's own experience with the MTC's "obedience police":

As a sister missionary, I had an MTC experience similar to what Deconstructor described. Like most missionaries I tried very hard to obey all of the MTC rules, and I found that no matter how hard I tried, it was never enough.

Shortly after I arrived there was a special meeting for the sister missionaries in which we were urged to share our talents. We were told that as sister missionaries we could have a great deal of influence on the Elders by setting a good example, and that by sharing our talents we could help the Elders improve. (It didn't occur to me at the time that it was somewhat demeaning to act as if we were there only to be of benefit to the "Elders.")

After that meeting I thought a great deal about how i could help the Elders be better missionaries. Because of my Dad's influence and guidance I had learned the scriptures very well prior to my mission, and it seemed that this might be one of the talents we had been instructed to share with the Elders. Accordingly, between classes and during lunch hour, or in any free time I could find, I began teaching the Elders in my district the scriptures I had learned.

One Elder in particular seemed to enjoy studying the scriptures with me, and he seemed to enjoy the attention I gave him a little more than I had intended.

Apparently, this Elder became infatuated with me, and he told several others about his feelings. [Note from Will: This is a 19-year-old guy we're talking about, after all.] He dutifully told our District Leader, as well as our Branch President about his "problem."

As a result, the District Leader and the members of our Branch Presidency all took me aside individually to upbraid me for "making" this Elder like me, as if that had been my intention. All I had done, of course, was to follow our "inspired" direction to use my talents to help the Elders improve.

It wasn't enough that the District Leader and his companion assumed that I had done something to "seduce" this Elder; all of them made a point of asking me if I there were any sexual sins in my past I needed to repent of. [Will interjects once again -- These are OTHER 19-year-old guys asking an attractive 21-year-old woman about intimate matters: Were they carrying out a "priesthood" function, or serving their own prurient interests? You make the call.]

The Branch President, in turn, called me in and browbeat me at length, making me feel guilty and -- of course -- asking me pointedly if there were any sexual sins "now or in the past" that I needed to clear up. I broke down in tears, and spent the remainder of my term in the MTC on an emotional roller coaster.

To make matters even worse the Elder at the center of this whole business came up to me after one of our big meetings and gave me a lingering handshake (a hug being out of the question) while gazing deeply into my eyes and telling me he loved me. But bear in mind that I was the one who was supposedly the source of this problem.

During the rest of my time at the MTC, I was frequently called in to be rebuked. Eventually I was told I needed to apologize to the Elder, with one of the District Leaders present as a chaperone. I did as I was told, and bawled the whole way through my apology. The Elder apologized as well, and he broke down, too.

What a stupid, mind-controlling place.

Predictably, I felt very guilty over that experience, and for the rest of my mission I avoided the Elders as much as possible. Even when my companion and I were required to call in our statistics each week, I would make up excuses to avoid talking with the Elders, insisting that my companion make the report.

Subject: Talk about mental cruelty. Geez. NT
Date: Apr 20 14:01
Author: Guy_from_Alberta
Mail Address:


Subject: Those d*mn women...
Date: Apr 20 16:41
Author: mikemgc

...don't they know it's ALWAYS their fault? We guys aren't responsible for our actions when it comes to women because we're handicapped. See, we've got this sex drive thing and you don't. Same goes for child molesters. The children are always seducing the abuser. It's not the abuser's fault. If children weren't so seductive we wouldn't have this problem (obviously I'm being facetious here).

This mentality makes me sick and it's one of the things I hate about the morgue. I think seduction in adults works both ways and each sex has their reasons for wanting to be with the other sex. Not to generalize, but I've come to understand men usually want the sex and women usually want the attention and affection. Neither is wrong but both parties play a part and it was wrong for them to focus it all on the woman and assume they were trying to seduce. That guy should have been hung out to dry as much or more than your wife. With child molestation, the blame ALWAYS lies on the adult, period. No exceptions. This concept seems for some reason to escape the morgue, that's what makes it a haven for men and a nightmare for a lot of women. And it makes it a haven for child molesters and a nightmare for children who are abused.

It would be nice if the women would start leaving in droves so they would get the message. They'd be pretty lonely sitting there with their "priesthood" in their hands if there were no women around. They'd reform in a hurry. Women have got the power, they just need to use it.

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