|Subject:||Tentacles of Mormon Sealings AFTER Name Removal|
|Date:||May 23 19:14|
|Do Mormons think temple sealings are still in effect
after name removal?
Recently, TLC shared with us his experience of discovering that the church still recognized his temple sealing, despite the fact he had been divorced for over ten years and had not been a church member for years.
The letter the church sends you to confirm your resignation from the church specifically states that all priesthood, blessings and ordinances of the church have been canceled and are now void.
So why did TLC get a call from his ex-wife's bishop about their temple sealing? It sounded like the church still thought the sealing was in effect - even though TLC isn't even a member and has been divorced for over a decade!
So am I still "sealed" to my parents even though I resigned from the church last year?
Here's what Mormon Church leaders have promised:
"But what if the children who have been taught by faithful, loving parents have rebelled or been led astray? Is there hope? The grief of a parent over a rebellious child is almost inconsolable."
"I believe and accept the comforting statement of Elder Orson F. Whitney:"
"“The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.”"
"Perhaps in this life we are not given to fully understand how enduring the sealing cords of righteous parents are to their children. ... To those brokenhearted parents who have been righteous, diligent, and prayerful in the teaching of their disobedient children, we say to you, the Good Shepherd is watching over them. God knows and understands your deep sorrow. There is hope. Take comfort in the words of Jeremiah, “Thy work shall be rewarded” and your children can “come again from the land of the enemy.” I so testify and pray in the name of Jesus Christ, amen."
- President James E. Faust, 6 April 2003 General Conference Address
Three published quotes from the September 2002 Ensign Magazine, page 11:
“It is not uncommon for responsible parents to lose one of their children, for a time, to influences over which they have no control. They agonize over rebellious sons or daughters. They are puzzled over why they are so helpless when they have tried so hard to do what they should. It is my conviction that those wicked influences one day will be overruled. ... We cannot overemphasize the value of temple marriage, the binding ties of the sealing ordinance, and the standards of worthiness required of them. When parents keep the covenants they have made at the altar of the temple, their children will be forever bound to them.”
- Apostle Boyd K. Packer “Our Moral Environment,” Ensign, May 1992, 68
“If you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a resurrection, you will, by the power of the Priesthood, work and labor, as the Son of God has, until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains. Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity.”
- Prophet Lorenzo Snow, Collected Discourses, comp. Brian H. Stuy, 5 vols. [1987-92], 3:364
“Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, quoted in Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954-56], 2:90-91)
No wonder my mother is paying extra tithing and pushing herself to be "extra righteous" in order to "save me in the celestial kingdom." To make my mother suffer thinking she can save me through her "righteousness" is nothing short of emotional extortion. She has accepted church callings that tax her health and paid out thousands of dollars in extra tithing all in this hope that her unquestioned loyalty to the church will save me.
My mother also relishes in the fact that the "tentacles" of the church will someday get me and I will be made to suffer for my "waywardness."
Does anyone else have a problem with this?
|Subject:||Yes, Deconstructor, I definitely have a problem with it, but...|
|Date:||May 23 20:27|
|on the bright side, you can say, "What's the
big deal about my disbelief? According to your doctrine, I'll be saved
someday, so don't worry about it."
When I told my mom this, though, to try to make her feel better, she said, "No, that's not true," and that she had been taught different. Too bad no one can pin down Mormon doctrine, I guess.
|Subject:||used it on my TBM sister...|
|Date:||May 23 22:25|
|I used the "I'm saved anyway, since mom and dad have been so faithful" on my TBM sister. She seemed to accept it okay. I haven't come out of the "exmo closet" with my parents (and no intention of purposefully doing so) but I would try to comfort them with this quote. Is the doctrine silly? Absolutely. But I see nothing wrong with comforting or discomfitting Morgbots w/ their own pablum...|
|Subject:||Yes, Decon ... I would call it ...|
|Date:||May 23 22:14|
|Subject:||It's easy for us as non-believers...|
|Date:||May 23 22:51|
|...to dismiss it as all so much nonsense. But to
those who still believe, it does extract a price. And this is exactly
the stuff about mormonism that really makes me angry - the emotional
manipulation of those who believe.
I think I've mentioned this before, but when my mom was still trying desperately to wrangle me back in by saying, "But you won't be able to be with us in the Celestial Kingdom..." I simply said to her, "Well mom, you better make the most of the time you've got with me now then." I think it's the only thing I'v ever said to her that shut her up on the spot.
And guess what? She seems to be making the most of the time we have now by being really nice to me all the time and not hoisting her mormon bullshit on me anymore. I think in her heart she really feels that I am lost to her in the eternities and that this is all we've got.
Works for me.
The whole sealing fiasco in mormonism is unsolvable and unexplainable even by them. At its very core it is so nonsensical that it defies even the most elementary logic. Why on earth would the church maintain a woman's sealing to a man who is gay, who is NON-mormon, (and by their definition a son of perdition) and who thinks that mormonism is the biggest farce on the face of the earth?
Why would the church still want one of its faithful women sealed to me? Never mind that nobody is sealed to me - what a crock that is. But what could possibly be the point of having a woman tethered to a man who in their perception, is the absolute antithesis of what mormonism is all about?
When I brought all of this up with my bro the bishop, he was silent. He couldn't answer the question because I think he knew in his heart that there was no answer - that the whole thing is just a load of hooey.
I know it, you all know it and I can guarantee you that every single one of the GAs know it too. If ever there was a doctrinal mess in mormonism, this thing about sealings is it - king of the heap of stupid stuff.
I think the only reason my ex-wife decided to get remarried is so that she wouldn't have to be stuck with me for eternity. :-)
|Subject:||Whoa - now *that's* a real kick in the tentacles!|
|Date:||May 23 23:11|
|The first time I saw that quote I was tempted to
make a decal for the back of my TBM wife's car that looked like one of
those ichthus things, (the line drawing of a Jeebus fish, that
looks kinda like the Greek letter alpha).
But instead of being a fishy decal it would be an evil-eyed, eight-tentacled octopus with the letters LDS emblazoned across its head...
|Subject:||It made me think of the Hotel California . . . .|
|Date:||May 24 00:43|
|you can check out any time you like . . . but you
can never leave.
It gives me the creeps. They don't think I have the freedom to leave. Eventually I'll be "saved" (which to me would be the ultimate punishment . . . . living as part of some celestial harem for all eternity). Sheesh.
Ah well . . . it's all a crock anyway. I just hope my parents don't knock themselves out for my benefit.
|Subject:||The Church is after families more than individuals.|
|Date:||May 24 03:28|
|Author:||Bye Bye Morgie|
|I can remember being told by a general authority in
a mission conference to try and baptize a whole family instead of
The whole focus is to use your own family to keep you in by using family pressure. This can be quite effective. Being married to a TBM spouse is why many people put up with the morg. Another is they don't want to dissapoint their parents or siblings. If you are inactive, you feel the family pressure when you have a new baby because someone needs to bless it or when you have a baptism age child. I was pressured to get active so I could baptize my oldest child. They really go after your kids in this way and programmed TBM family members pressure you as well. I was told by my father in law that he would rather see me baptize my daughter than him. That bugged me.
For some psycological reason, I had no doubt it was time to get out of the church after my mom had passed away. I had no parents anymore and in a funny way, I felt relief. I'm not very close to my TBM sisters and my brother is inactive. I was a free man to leave and didn't have to worry about spitting in the face of my LDS herritage.
Not so fast. I still had to deal with my TBM inlaws. Now the guilt comes from them. They are constantly pressuring my wife to come back to the fold. Sigh. I hate to say it, but both of them are old and have heart trouble.
I hate to say it, but when parents and inlaws pass away, you do feel the freedom of not having to worry about what they think and the guilt trips.
Even if your bishop, home teacher, or missionaries don't go after you, your family still does. Families are the biggest control tool the church has. It's sadly effective.
|Date:||May 24 04:01|
|Why all the frothing at the mouth over people going apostate and leaving the fold? If they don't return in life, the giant electric penguin with eight green tentacles will reach out to them beyond the grave. This church must be the only one on the planet where you can and very likely WILL convert AFTER you die! The only difference I can see is "where" you end up in the kingdom--the best neighborhood, one of the lesser kingdoms, or the really bad one downstairs. Resistance is futile...you WILL be assimilated!|