|Subject:||Have you ever been bothered by people paying tithing instead of other important obligations?|
|Date:||Oct 09 23:30 2003|
|Especially when they are old or poor or in financial jeopardy? I remember all of these talks from GAs telling about these people suffering and sacrificing to pay their tithing and I always thought, jeeze, maybe the church should be helping them instead of them feeling obligated to totally suffer for the church.|
|Subject:||I've felt anger that my parents paid tithing instead of meeting their kids' needs...|
|Date:||Oct 09 23:38|
|when we were growing up (things like warm shoes,
clothing, etc.) With six kids and a SAHM [stay at home mom], we were
always financially at risk. That tithing could have gone a long way
toward our basic needs or toward paying for our college or something.
Fortunately, I've worked through this anger, but I just thought I'd let you know that I empathize.
|Subject:||My parents chose tithing over insurance ...|
|Date:||Oct 10 05:16|
|My father was self-employed and insurance was very
expensive for 8 children. I imagine the 10% would have covered at least
a good deal of it. However, many of us have suffered because of it. My
brother hurt his back and probably needed surgery (multiple blown discs)
or at least heavy therapy. He felt so bad about making our parents pay
for it out of pocket that he pretended that it wasn't really hurting. 15
years later, he is now on disability because of his back the doctor told
him that if he would have taken care of it earlier there is a good
chance he would be able to function without pain. His career is pretty
much shot because he is heavily medicated all the time.
Me and my other brothers have multiple scars because we would "sew ourselves up" instead of going to the doctor to get stitches when we were young. We just didn't want to put that financial burden on our parents. (We also thought it was cool to be like Rambo) Luckily, nothing bad ever came from it besides the scars but I can only imagine how things *could* have gone.
I have many other stories about not having insurance growing up along with no food, no clothes, etc. All because my parents believed they would be blessed.
Maybe this is bad parenting, but they truly believed "the Lord would provide."
|Subject:||No empathy here|
|Date:||Oct 09 23:42|
|People choose their own lives, if living hand to
foot and giving away their money is something they choose to do out of
guilt, fear, obligation or whatever, then so be it.
No sympathy here, people are responsible for their own lives and are free to choose freedom or self imposed hardships.
|Subject:||Don't you feel bad for their kids, though?|
|Subject:||Like my dad? (swearin time)|
|Date:||Oct 10 01:31|
|But tithing is probably more important than child
support, and obviously more important than higher edumacation...
Not only that, but the goddamn Mormon Baby Drive(TM) caused my pops to push out another 6 or so kids in his 2nd marriage, while his first 3 were working in their early teens to make ends meet at home.
Anyone else ever eat Deseret "food" products? The spirit of god, like my stomach is churning!
Unlike Aphrodite, I haven't worked through my anger yet ;)
|Subject:||like my ex|
|Date:||Oct 10 01:59|
|My bishop old me I should pay tithing on my child
support. NOT!!! I am a single mom of four. I have barley enough to get
by. Besides, I reasoned, my ex has a temple recommend, so we MUST assume
HE has already paid tithing on that money, right??
BTW he can afford a new baby (his EIGHTH child, third wife) but he cannot bother ever once buying our four kids anything they need, ever. "child support is enough"...yeah right
|Subject:||Good for you, kc. I'm so glad you stood up to that bishop!... (cussing)|
|Date:||Oct 10 11:12|
|Stories like this REALLY piss me off! I would tell
him that your ex has already paid on the child-support money, like you
said. Or tell him that it's none of his damn business and that you have
no desire to give money to an organization that won't give financial
disclosure to the contributors.
|Subject:||I've heard of people losing their house because they put tithing first...|
|Subject:||A voluntary contribution based on love versus what the morg does|
|Date:||Oct 10 10:27|
|would be nice. There is so much guilt, tithing
settlement, temple recommend, etc. Seems kind of forced on those who are
obedient and can't stand to do the wrong things.
|Subject:||Wouldn't loving, caring leaders suggest that people|
|Date:||Oct 10 21:29|
|put aside their tithes in times of great need and
make it up later? Instead, they want those tithes to be paid over
everything else. What's that all about?
|Subject:||My grandparents were dirt poor in the 60s, raising 7 kids....|
|Date:||Oct 10 11:05|
|...so they paid "double tithing" in an
attempt to double their blessings!
They ended up losing their house.
|Subject:||Re: Have you ever been bothered by people paying tithing instead of other important obligations?|
|Date:||Oct 10 12:04|
|My ex refused to pay his child support for over two
years. Several years later, he's still behind over $4,000. He stood in
court and testified that his tithing and car payment were more important
than his children and that he has an image to maintain. He's proud that
he has his temple recommend (don't ask me how - he's not current on his
A former client of mine hasn't paid his taxes and owes the IRS, but he is more worried about his tithing and his church image.
I want to shake people like this really hard and ask, "Do you think the Church cares when you lose your house and everything? No, because they already have your TITHING!"
|Subject:||Re: Yes, our family|
|Date:||Oct 10 12:29|
|When my husband and I were in our twenties and had 2 small children to support, we were terribly poor. My husband made me borrow money to be able to pay the tithing at the end of the year, for which I am still bitter. I was (and still is) the main provider of the family and had nothing to say. The church was more important to him than me or the children. Today, some 25 years later, I have decided to leave the Morg, and we still fight over tithing. He has control over our money and I donīt know how to stop him from paying my hard-earned money to the cult. We have our accounts together, and even if we had separate accounts, he would pay my tithing from his money, which means I have to pay in the end anyway, since there would not be much left for him. Here in Sweden it is not even deduct-able from the taxes.|
|Subject:||Like my wife?|
|Date:||Oct 10 12:58|
|With my wife not working anymore (she's at home,
doing a fantastic job taking care of our 10-month-old twins), we're
walking a financial tightrope most of the time. I've analyzed every
scenario I can think of, and all of them end with us filing bankruptcy
within less than a year. So, to stave off poverty a little longer, I'm
starting to do some freelance graphic design work (in addition to my
50-hour weeks at work). Hopefully, the income will be roughly equivalent
to having a 2nd job, but without me driving any forklifts at 2 AM.
And yet I can't convince my wife to stop writing the tithing checks. I'm not the kind of person who "lays down the law", but it's getting very close to the point where I'll be taking the checkbook away from her.
...Going back and reading that last sentence, I hate the way it sounds. "Taking the checkbook away from her." It makes it sound like I consider myself more responsible than her. It makes it sound like I think it's my right to be the decision-maker in our home. That's not the case at all. I used to think that we made decisions together, as a couple. Now I see that she makes decisions, and if I don't like them, I have 2 choices: 1) change my mind to agree with her, or 2) continue to disagree and get pissed off about it.
So, yes, she's definitely putting the payment of tithing as a higher priority than the payment of other financial obligations. And that's saying nothing for short-term savings, retirement fund, college fund, etc.
But I'm pretty certain that putting my foot down about tithing would be the end of our marriage. And I'm not quite ready for that yet.
|Subject:||Once I put a stop-order on a tithing check my husband wrote out....|
|Date:||Oct 10 13:23|
Going back and reading that last sentence, I hate the way it sounds. "Taking the checkbook away from her." It makes it sound like I consider myself more responsible than her. It makes it sound like I think it's my right to be the decision-maker in our home. That's not the case at all.
You have to keep in mind that these really aren't your wife's decisions, though, since she is brainwashed. Maybe you could talk to her about the original concept of tithing and tell her that you'll gladly pay 10 percent of what you have left after meeting your expenses (which may be nothing).
I've mentioned this here before, but when I stopped a check my husband wrote to tithing (behind my back and after agreeing not to), the bank wrote that the reason was, "Services not delivered." I thought that was pretty good.
|Subject:||Yes my TBM parents come to mind|
|Date:||Oct 10 20:08|
|They would rather give the morg 10% of their income
(my TBM dad is retired and my TBM mom works outside the home decorating
cakes at Stokes, although she will be quitting soon to do day care for
my inactive little brothers kids, plus she will Social Security too).
Every month I see my TBM dad write out a check to LDS, Inc for either $275 or $235(I'm not sure which amount it is but is one of those that goes to LDS, Inc). Because of this my TBM parent's never have enough money for food, repairs, house stuff (like building a new fence around the whole house and yard (we live in the country), car repairs etc..
If I was my TBM parent's with the morg buying up of this real estate in SLC, I would forget giving them their tithing money. It's obviously not going to help the poor,homeless,hungry etc.. which is something the morg should be doing with this money. But then my TBM parent's never keep up on what their church is really doing with thier tithing money.
Why do I feel that the TBM members of the morg church are being taken for a ride and being scammed on tithing? Maybe the morg recent real estate transactions has something to do with it?
|Subject:||Re: Have you ever been bothered by people paying tithing instead of other important obligations?|
|Date:||Oct 10 22:17|
My poor father in law was a tithe payer until the day he died. He lived on a fixed income and could barely afford necessities much less insurance. 'Bothered' is such a mild word...I was very angry that a multi-million $ pyramid fraud would soak him for what little he had. He was a widower...."kind, loving" stewards made sure he always paid up. Exploiting the poor.....that is what makes me extremely angry....but of course, they don't know much about that. Sick.
|Subject:||My parents did this repeatedly.|
|Date:||Oct 10 22:59|
|And my father died poor as a church mouse, leaving
nothing to his kids or his wife, not even the pride of a life
well-lived. Perhaps my sibs and my mother feel that he lived an
honorable life. But I don't.
He received a great deal of money from his father as an inheritance and gave it to the church mission fund, ostensibly so the church could pay for the missions of his next two children. Did the same with my mother's inheritance that she received from her mother. And then, when it came time for the last two kids to go on their missions (not the two mentioned above) everybody had to chip in to help pay for it.
My anger was not because *I* was personally hurt by it financially but because I wanted a father I could be proud of and this move really blew it. I lost all respect for him at that point. I can't begin to express the anger I felt.
Having said that, however, notice I am speaking in past tense. I believe I'm over it because thinking of it and writing about it here don't bring any swell of emotion to me any more as it used to.
The church robs people blind.
|Subject:||This is the thing that allowed me to see that the Emporor had no clothes on|
|Date:||Oct 11 12:33|
|After all the tithing I/We had paid throughout our
lifetime (when we should have been taking care of other things), the ONE
time I ever went to the church and asked for a LITTLE help was when I
was first separated and trying to take care of my family on my own
I was desperately trying to find a better paying job, but nothing had come through yet. The bishop refused to help me because I hadn't paid tithing in several months. HELLO???!!! I was blown away. I was trying to tell him I couldn't pay the mortgage let alone utilities, food, gas, clothes, blah, blah, blah. And he wanted me to give him 100 bucks?
So he told me to pay my tithing for two months and he PROMISED me I'd be blessed and the Lord would come through. If I was still in the same position at the end of that two months' time, they'd help me.
Well, fortunately, my motherly instincts came through louder than my mormon fear and I did what I could to take care of my family instead of giving money to the corporation.
Three weeks later I landed a much better job, with benefits, and I started getting on my feet. I never went back to the bishop and haven't paid a penny in tithing since, even when I was still active.
I am very thankful for that lesson. I finally saw that the Emperor was naked. I realized that you can see things however you want to see them. If I'd paid my tithing and the job came through (which it would have--because of MY hard work, not because of some fickle God) I would have seen the fine purple robes on the Emperor (believing it was because I'd paid my tithing) and I'd have been sucked in for life.
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church - www.exmormon.org