Subject: Mormon Women aren't REALLY members
Date: Nov 15 19:11 2003
Author: Trying Dynamic
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Technically they are, but when it comes down to the nitty-gritty their whole purpose is to be cheerleaders and go-fers for the men. The men are what is really important here. They have the priesthood after all. God works through them. The Army of God alluded to by so many GAs, the priesthood power they talk so much about. Its all dudes, man!

Even if you look at a diagram of the church, you'd be hard pressed to find a place where women really fit in. I mean, SURE they have RS, but the main decision making of that org. is the priesthood and who has the priesthood???? Bingo You got it! Men.

Not that there is anything wrong with men. I love men. Men are great,...BUT, It pisses me off to no end that a church that demands so damn much from its women, doesn't even pretend to give them the slightest bit of authority.

A woman may have some sort of membership. But, its a joke, I mean really when your 13 year old son can outrank you and have more authority than you do, has special "powers" from god via the fact that he has a dick and has lived to his teens, something is terribly wrong.

They don't even trust a woman to balance the ward budget, you need the "priesthood" to balance the ward budget, how messed up is that? What women aren't endowed with the godly gift of doing math?

Bottom line, if they aren't going to listen to me or even respect me in the slightest because I have a vagina instead of a penis then I am not going to lift a dainty finger to help their sorry, misogynistic, polygamous heaven lovin asses!

They have no authority, but what you give them.

Subject: Exactly! Well said. 

Subject: Re: Women aren't REALLY members
Date: Nov 15 19:21
Author: Davey
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You post its the nail right on the head. My wife and were discussing this just the other day and it is one of the main reasons we left.

We have 4 daughters and saving them from the morg's misogynistic BS is a great reason to leave. I am sure my 4 girls will thank me someday.

Subject: This used to bug me....
Date: Nov 15 20:56
Author: Lara C
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...but now I am actually glad about it, because it made it a lot easier for me to go inactive. ;-)

Subject: P.S. It also got me out of being guilted into serving a mission.
Date: Nov 15 21:06
Author: Lara C
Mail Address:


Subject: Isn't it just AMAZING.......
Date: Nov 15 21:42
Author: Tee
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That the TBM women of the church fawn and slobber all over themselves about what a wonderful place it it, but really, there is no place for them. Aside from making babies, cleaning house, visiting teaching, attending relief society, cooking meals for all the other women that are having babies.............


What a wonderfully numb life of servitude, only to continue on in the "hereafter" whilst the honored priesthood holder of her earthly life prances around with celestial "hotties" galore.

What a reward for this life - don't you think?

How can women who chose to be part of the Mormon church be so delusional? YIKES!

Subject: I never liked it or felt good about it, I only believed it because I was brainwashed!
Subject: They are brought up with it, so.....
Date: Nov 15 23:10
Author: Lara C
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they accept it because "that is the way it is."

The truth is, many of the women in the church are truly selfless and kind people. That is why they serve each other so well. This is the good part.

The bad part is the depression many women feel because their efforts are unappreciated, they are unfulfilled, and they are "second-class" citizens. Certainly many do not fit the "Molly Mormon" mold.

Subject: What if gender roles were revered in the church?
Date: Nov 15 23:21
Author: Deconstructor
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Excellent observations about women in the church.

I don't think men in the church see it as much as the women. But it would be totally obvious if the gener roles were revered.

Here's my list on what the church would look like if gender roles were reversed:

Would any man in his right mind join such a church?

Subject: WOW.
Date: Nov 15 23:30
Author: melissa

Could it be any clearer?

Somehow that list parts the clouds.

Subject: Guess it's really no huge surprise that women respond with passive-aggressive behavior 
Subject: Re: What if gender roles were reversed ? Growth would plummet. Great list. 
Subject: Mormon apologetics on this subject
Date: Nov 16 00:42
Author: 2 lazy 2 log in
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I remember being told that women didn't need the Priesthood because we were naturally more righteous than men. I know they just said that to appease me because I was always pretty vocal about how I had big dreams and didn't plan on being a housewife and mother and how I thought the whole subjugation of women thing was a crock even as a kid. Too bad for them it didn't work. The Mormon church has found a lifelong enemy in me.

Subject: Re: Mormon apologetics on this subject
Date: Nov 16 01:16
Author: Micro
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I too have heard the excuse that women are more righteous. I have also heard that they are more spiritual and the men need the priesthood to get on equal status with the women. This brings up one question for me: If the women are naturally more spiritual, wouldn't God want to talk through them? After all, the women are more likely to listen and more likely to get the message right. If God is willing to trust a less spiritual man, God must also be willing to allow a lot of things to get lost in the translation of His/Her revelations. Does that make sense if He/She is a loving Heavenly parent that wants all His/Her children to learn the truth?

Subject: So how's this logic?
Date: Nov 16 01:59
Author: Kerry
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According to Mormons, women don't get the priesthood because they're too righteous to need it.

On the other hand, blacks were denied the priesthood because they were not righteous enough!

God sure is picky.


Subject: My TBM mom even shared your view
Date: Nov 16 02:13
Author: Bye Bye Morgie
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My mom was always excellent in business and had a real talent for administrating organizations. Before my parents passed away, they served as missionaries in the church office building. My dad took sick while on their mission but my mom chose to continue working in the COB since they had a apartment in downtown SLC.

My mom tried very hard to make the dept. she worked in more efficient and even uncovered a financial scam a COB employee was running. My mom really got irritated because none of her suggestions were ever considered and when I enquired why she said it was because she was a woman. She said the COB was ran by a bunch of egotistical males than don't want to listen to women.

I often wondered why my mom stayed in the church her whole life and was a TBM until she died. She always complained about the church leadership and their policies around the dinner table. She was real proud of her pioneer heritage and I think she felt putting up with the bullshit was a necessary sacrifice or something like that.

Subject: Re: Women aren't REALLY members
Date: Nov 16 03:32
Author: mofembot
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Tryign Dynamic wrote:
> It pisses me off to no end that a church that demands so damn much from its women, doesn't even pretend to give them the slightest bit of authority.<

Oh, but they do *pretend* to give women authority, calling the RS prez "president" and touting the RS as "the greatest women's organization in the world," etc. But as you so cogently noted, it's a sham, all the decision-making is done for women by men, whether the woman is called president or not.

The reality is that there are two mormon churches, one for men and one for women. And there is no such thing as "separate but equal" in mormonism.

I've always been intrigued by the fact that women say the same thing as men to go through the veil into the celestial room in the temple--"power in the priesthood be upon *me* and upon my posterity," etc., but no TBM I've ever run across has ever seemed desirous to ponder the implications. (Well, hey, not like too many TBMs seem incline to ponder a whole lot of things that don't make a whole lot of sense upon reflection.)

Subject: Re: Power in the priesthood upon me....never thought of it that way. Thanks. n/t
Date: Nov 16 08:15
Author: guest #2
Mail Address:


Subject: Re: Took me over ten years to show man's oppression to my ex...
Date: Nov 16 08:47
Author: Quinlansolo
Mail Address:

Once she decided to shake them loose, they had no power over her.
Meanwhile there's still more than enough women to preside over and usher them in Celestial Kingdom.
I don't know if women have realistic hopes in church.


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