Subject: TBM NAZI-Like parents rat on their own son to the Mission President
Date: Feb 20 09:43 2004
Author: NEPA

What kind of parents turn in their own son for sending flowers to his girlfriend back home while in the service of their church? Who else but the Mormons!

As if Elder Green hasn’t been through enough already, his parents found out that he sent flowers last week to his girlfriend-in-waiting in Utah. The girl had broken her back in an accident and it was Valentine’s Day. Green wanted to show her some compassion and love and his parents, furious about this behavior, call the local president and tell him that not only did he do this horrendous act, but he also emailed her and called her using my son’s cell phone.

The MP called Green and his comp and sternly told him that he would be at their apartment in ten minutes. “You’d better be there” he warned. When he arrived, he ripped Green a new one and questioned him about all sorts of things. Through the grapevine, the MP apparently found out that “Tom” had faked his way out. He put the blame on Green. He left furious with a threat of more interrogations today. They were told to stay at their apartment.

Saturday was the day Green was to be transferred. True to the MPs promise, he is sending him “far away.” If he makes it through the interrogations, he will be sent about 5 hours away from here. I say “if” because Green thinks that there’s a good chance that he will be sent home today.

To say the least, Green is furious at his parents. He had some letters from home waiting for him last night and he ripped them apart. At this point the wants nothing to do with them or TSCC. He also said that he just might walk out of his mission if he survives today and is transferred as previously planned.

My son had a good talk with him. He explained to him that that is yet another reason that he would never join TSCC. He asked him what kind of church has you looking over your shoulder wondering who might turn you in for “bad” behavior. And, what kind of church has so many rules that you don’t even know if you’re breaking one? Green got the point.

We’re supposed to have them over for a farewell dinner tonight, but I’m sure the MP will nix that. He’s not too happy about them spending time with us. There’s no doubt in my mind that the MP will put the blame on us as well, being the evil apostates that we are.

What a sick so called church.

NEPA out.

(After reading what I just wrote, I had to edit the subject line. I added the words “NAZI-Like.” That’s not a term use lightly as my Mother survived NAZI occupation during WWII and my uncle barely survived Dachau. Using “looking over your shoulder”, “interrogation”, MP (Gestapo) just jumped out at me and reminded me of my Mother’s experiences.)

Subject: I think the bar they raised just fell off the pole
Subject: Remember "Breaking the will of the members? Short topics #316"
Date: Feb 20 10:01
Author: Been There

It's becoming a power thing. "Do as we say or there will be big consequences!" The MP is probably getting gas from his boss too, and the parents are telling their kid to get in line or else.

Elder Green's genuine WILL is the last priority on everyone's mind -- except maybe Green himself. He's saying "Who am I really? Is this honestly what I'm supposed to be? What do I REALLY feel and believe?""

They are saying "The natural man is an enemy to God! The church's will is everything."

This MP is like the SP in the Short Subjects page, # 316. It has become a contest now and the parents and the MP are determined not to lose.

Subject: Man, that sucks
Date: Feb 20 10:11
Author: effulgent

It amazes me how much TBM's think that negativity is going to make testimonies grow strong. How does that MP think that punishing Elder Green is going to convert more Mormons in the long run? How does punishing him for sending flowers to his girlfriend who has been hurt make him want to spread the gospel?

I think Elder Green should ask the MP these things. How does the MP think that his actions are going to help Elder Green in any way become more spiritual or closer to God. Seriously. I just don't understand it.

Subject: The MP and the GAs want 100% unquestioning obedience.
Date: Feb 20 11:10
Author: LongtimeExMo

Any display of freedom of thought is cannot be tolerated by the brethren, because it might get the person started on some serious thinking and questioning of the morg-church. I have a nephew on a mission and his mother (my sister) makes a big deal about how wonderful and special it is to be able to speak to her son on Christmas and Mother's Day. It never occurs to her to ask what would be wrong with a weekly phone call?

"It's all about Family!" Yeah, right. When your kid goes on a mission the church makes it like they have departed for Saturn. NASA communicates with its satellites on the edge of the universe more frequently than missionaries are allowed to phone home.

Subject: Morg MP version: Just ask yourself, "What would the Pharasees do?"

Subject: One example of the kind of twisted
Date: Feb 20 10:16
Author: melissa

church behavior that isn't funny. So much of their behavior is very funny. When they violate basic decency between individuals like this, there's no humor for me.

His girlfriend broke her BACK? And these are Elder Green's PARENTS? The poor guy.

What a miracle he has NEPA to toss some sanity into the salad.

Subject: Good for you - removing those NAZI references
Date: Feb 20 10:22
Author: alex

I think it's easy for all of us to get in emotional tizzies when dealing with the Morg (aka TSCC). So it doesn't surprise me that the first inclination is to use pretty strong language.

Good for you in removing such associations. Sure the Morg can be a pain in the neck. But they have no more power over any of our lives (than we give it) than does the board of directors of our local Kiwanis club.

I'm sorry for poor Elder Green on this and it's really nice of you/wife offering a shoulder for them. BTW everyone my daughter turns 9 next week. My wife/I are still members of record. So all you Ward clerks and Ward mission leaders know what that means. My daughter is going to be on the Bishop's report of Unbaptized Children.

Occasionally my daughter mentions that she'd like to get baptized (because her cousins got baptized) and if I was gunho about it I have no doubt she'd be the easiest convert baptism this next month for our local missionaries. When my daughter talks about getting baptized it usually ends up in a 10 minute conversation where I tell her it's her decision, but she needs to make sure she understands what it means and she's quite agreeable on the fact that she needs to make an informed decision. I ask her if she believes in Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon and she tells me that JS was not a prophet aned that the Book of Mormon is make-believe. I remind her that she has to try to believe these things if she'll be a good Mormon girl. Then I ask her if she'll pay tithing, fast each month, not allow dad/mom to attend her wedding when she's big and if she'll keep the sabbath day holy. "Daddy, how do I keep the sabbath day holy?". My response, "simple - no swimming during the summer, no watching TV, just reading scriptures, listening to church songs and going to church and being good/quiet all day". Her response, "Dad I don't want to get baptized. I've changed my mind." My reply, "are you sure?" Her response, "yes".

Even though my wife has recovered from Mormonism she's against us doing the name removal thing for now. I'd do it but then she'd say, "you never listen to me or respect my opinions". So in case anyone was wondering that's why I'm still a member of record. I don't see the "name removal thing" as being that big of a deal. If anything I'd welcome getting visits from mishies if I could help them get away from the insanities of missionary life and TSCC. I can relate well to them and I feel comfortable having them around as long as they are respectful of me.

Subject: Yet, do you really have that much control
Date: Feb 20 11:36
Author: Die Gedanken sind frei!

when you are in it? The emotional bind that you find yourself in would make it all but impossible for most to break the bonds of the mind and think for themselves.

Subject: What a sick, twisted religion.
Date: Feb 20 11:14
Author: activejackmormon
Mail Address:

There are days when I get up and wonder, "What was I thinking?" Today is another one of those days.

Subject: Twisted twisted people. 

Subject: Young Elder Green should
Date: Feb 20 11:24
Author: Seeker

take the pieces of the letters he ripped up and mail them back to his former parents. He should ask them "So, is this how 'The Church' values families?"

Well, that's probably over the top, but he has every right to be royally pissed off and feel totally betrayed. I hope his GF is worth all the s**t he got into for her.

Subject: Re: TBM NAZI-Like parents rat on their own son to the Mission President
Date: Feb 20 11:41
Author: RogerV

Two ideas come to mind:

1) If Green somehow survives the interrogation and stays on his mission, I think it might be a good idea to slip him a long distance "phone card" so that he will still have a way to communicate. I realize he may be "confined to quarters," but I have confidence that your multi-talented son can think of a way to get it to him.

2) I hope that SOMEONE who is located in the area where he will be transferred has already communicated with you, so there will be a house of refuge for him there.

I really feel for the poor guy, and wish him and you all the best. BTW, I offered to let one of "my" missionaries use the phone, but he said he had already called home once and his family was "disappointed" with him for doing so.

And they call this a CHURCH??

Subject: I like the ideas.
Date: Feb 20 11:56
Author: NEPA

No. 1 will be easy enough. I'll pick one up this AM and have my son drop it off at their apartment.

No. 2 is in the event he sticks with it. Having gone through Tom leaving (he's talked to Tom in SL since he left BTW)and now dealing with rat parents, he's seriously considering bagging the whole thing. If, however, he makes it to his new area there is a person in the "Underground Railroad" who is only an hour away. I'll alert that person now. If they aren't still able, we're five hours away and would be more than happy to take the drive. It's interesting to note that the new area is five hours away from an airport. Hmmm....

NEPA out.

Subject: Re: I like the ideas.
Date: Feb 20 12:08
Author: RogerV

NEPA wrote:

It's interesting to note that the new area is five hours away from an airport. Hmmm....

Boy, they must be REALLY sending him to Timbuktu! If they had trouble finding people to teach where you are, NEPA, unless they plan to teach jackrabbits or coyotes there won't be ANYONE to teach!

Also, don't forget that even if there isn't an airport, there may well be bus service there.

Subject: Missionary's mom was dying of cancer
Date: Feb 20 12:10
Author: Seeker

and he was not allowed to come home. Hell, his dad and dieing mom both didn't want him to come home. She was convinced they'd all be together in the CK.

It was harder on me than is was on that family. She was a good person. THAT just plain WEIRDED ME OUT.

Subject: Re: TBM NAZI-Like parents rat on their own son to the Mission President
Date: Feb 20 11:52
Author: Claire

Nazi behavior is right. So why can't the guy send flowers, he has civil rights. If he's lucky he gets sent home, and his parens only have themselves to blame for causing the problems. What idiots they are. But it's typical, a TBM friend turned in her 17 year old son to the BP for kissing a girl. He moved out the day he turned 18 and also left the church. And the parents still wonder where they went wrong!

Subject: Orwellian parallels in mormonism are chilling.
Date: Feb 20 12:06
Author: Abalone

The first thing that popped into my mind when I read your post, NEPA, was the neighbors of Winston Smith in "1984". Don't know if you've ever read the book, but it's the part where the parents get ratted out by their kids for unknowingly committing "thought crime."

It's important for a totalitarian state to ensure that its citizen's prime loyalty is to the collective, and that all other loyalties - including family - come a distant second.

I wonder what a sovereign state of Utah would look like, with mormons as "The Party?"

Subject: Yes, I have read it, and you're right, the parallels are chilling.
Date: Feb 20 12:34
Author: NEPA

And I don't think we have to wonder what the state of Utah would look like with mormons as "The Party." It would look like 1884! Have you read "A Study in Scarlet"? Another enlightening work on Mormons.

NEPA out.

Subject: Re: Orwellian parallels in mormonism are chilling.
Date: Feb 20 12:37
Author: rwg

In many posts I have commented on the similarity of Mormonism to Stalinism. This thread just reinforces it (BTW, am a happy nevermo married to a happy nevermo in California). I still cannot understand how and why people put up with this bullshit. Unless one lives, works, etc, entirely among TBMs, how can the church have that much influence on their lives? If they live in a non-Mormon area like this, if they go to a public school (I teach history in one) with kids of many beliefs and non-beliefs, learning that Mormon beliefs (origin of the Indians, etc) are nonsense and being forced to think critically, if they have jobs as teachers, or policemen, or journalists, or whatever in a non-Mormon workforce where they daily see that Mormon teachings just don't work, how in hell can they still be controlled by the church? NEPA, are you in Utah or somewhere else in the Corridor? Because I can't imagine that sort of thing happening here; we've had Mormon neighbors and associates, TBMs I am sure, but never noticed this kind of attitude... maybe the central CA sun bakes it out of their minds... Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness text but this horrible account just aroused my anger and disbelief (and my class is taking a test right now and I can do other things, so let them work, I did it all week, smile).

Subject: Re: Orwellian parallels in mormonism are chilling.
Date: Feb 20 12:39
Author: vonclare

You can get a pretty good idea of what an LDS theocracy in Utah would look like just by going down to Colorado City


Subject: Re: TBM NAZI-Like parents rat on their own son to the Mission President
Date: Feb 20 12:31
Author: wisedup

As usual - an interesting post. Thank goodness your family has been there for this poor guy.

This is such ABUSE - by both the parents and the mission president. I can only imagine what effect this will have on this young man's psyche. I wish some newspaper or news station could do a story on this. People need to know about this stuff. I bet people investigating the cult would think twice - if they knew what these young people go through.

Just like the cult - isolate them - brainwash them. Who did you say the mission pres is - jim jones. One other thing - the parents are NUTS. Dirty *&^*&%$^

Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church

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