Subject: March 2004 Ensign article on Tithing!!
Date: Feb 25 13:12
Author: ProvoJoe

I got a kick out of this article, entitled "5 steps to financial well being."  March 2004 Ensign Article - 5 steps to financial well being Pages 66-71

Want to know how to become financially well off? This article has the secret for you! Forget about funding a Roth IRA or maxing your 401(k). Here is step number one, written by all people, a BANKRUPTCY ATTORNEY!

1) Tithing - The most important step toward achieving financial well being is to pay tithing first-no excuses or exceptions. President Gordon B. Hinckley counseled: "some of you have money problems. I know that. You are struggling to get along. What is the cure? The only thing I know is the payment of tithing."

So, let me understand this, if 100% of your $$ is not enough for your family, than having 90% of it will make you better off?


Subject: You are PROMISED to be blessed if you pay it...
Date: Feb 25 13:24
Author: AFNO

but if no blessing happens, and you DO end up bankrupt, it's YOUR fault because something ELSE was impeding the Lard from blessing you, like one of the OTHER things you have to do as a Mocult Morgbot.

Subject: I was such a Motard for writing that check every month. nt

Subject: "...The only thing I know..."
Date: Feb 25 13:37
Author: Stray Mutt

So GBH as much as admits he's pretty much clueless. Hey folks, keep on following the prophet.

Subject: Re: "...The only thing I know..."
Date: Feb 25 20:13
Author: Randy J.

...and this comment comes from a guy whose (probable) six-figure income for more than half a century has come from tithing revenues paid by Mormons. Yeah, he has a lot of authority to tell people making $20, $30, or $40k per year where to send 10% of their wages.

Subject: Giving reaps good Karma
Date: Feb 25 15:23
Author: Tyler

I firmly believe that willful giving without strings attached can reap good karma in one's behalf.

In the case of tithing when a person substitutes good and common sense in neglecting their own personal savings and fiscal responsibility in order to pay tithing that is mandated by a spiritual force or threat, then the tithing brings no such karmic rewards.

Tithing is fine to pay if all other obligations are paid, savings are in place and the tither does so without any external pressures.

Of course in mormonism those conditions are usually not present.


Subject: This is exactly what I believe!
Date: Feb 25 17:31
Author: free

When people bless me or help me grow spiritually, then I am happy to open my checkbook and give. Being coerced was not giving, imo. So in the LDS church, I did not tithe and I refused (after being asked how much I made a year) to go to tithing settlement.

You are so right! Give from your heart with no strings attached. Personally, I like to give to strangers in need by writing out a check. Go to any gas station and you will find donation boxes.

I also give to my prayer circle because they are such loving supportive people. And they say the same thing to me: A gift is only a gift if given with no strings attached.

Subject: Re: Cog Dis at it's finest
Date: Feb 25 15:32
Author: Infymus (lazy)

Exactly. If you can barely make it on 100%, how could you ever make it on 90%. And it is true, if you end up filing for bankruptcy later because you gave so much money to the church, the church responds with one of two things... One, that you were a sinner and something is wrong and you need to repent (or in that area, you lied, you didn't pay a full tithe), or two, you are being tested by God and this is your trial of faith.

I know an LDS family with six kids. They are TBM as far as you can go. They pay a full tithe. They live in West Valley (south and west of the SLC Temple). They live in almost abject poverty. They can't afford a house (they rent). Their car (van) breaks down all the time. But they are blessed because they continue to pay their tithing to the Morgopoly. Mom is a home maker, dad is in the Air Force.

I feel very sorry for them.

[Note:  Hinckley's Condo was appraised at $1,200,000 a few years ago by the city.  It is likely closer to $2,000,000 now.  It is provided for him by the church.]

Subject: Here is a thought.
Date: Feb 25 15:42
Author: Seeker

OK, if you just somehow feel compelled to give 10% of your gross to some god, then why not help his/her children instead? Buy food and clothes for the homeless and distribute it to them.

For that you will likely go to mormon hell, as you are supposed to fatten the coffers of their god's church -- screw the poor.

Subject: yeah, well...
Date: Feb 25 15:43
Author: Reinventing Grace

What would you expect a bankruptcy attorney to write? He needs The Saints to go bankrupt. If they don't, he will...

Mebbe the _Ensign_ couldn't get any other financial advisors to put the "First, give away some of your money" line in their financial advisement package...

Thanks for sharing,


Subject: The dumbest TBM thing I ever did
Date: Feb 25 16:59
Author: Lost no more

The dumbest thing I ever did in the morg was to pay back tithing from the proceeds of a loan. The guilt trip they put members on, especially at the end of the year, is criminal!

They should pay me back my years of tithing with interest. No, better yet, I'll let karma pay back the morg for the whole entire fraud.

My uncle who left the church years ago, calls it rape. I think he means that it violated him financially, socially, intellectually, and spiritually.

Lost no more

Subject: It's magical thinking. And, as we should well know, there is no magic; only slight of hand. (n/t)

Subject: Re: New Ensign article on Tithing!! -- In all seriousness,
Date: Feb 25 18:24
Author: anon

I hope anyone any financial difficulty would apply the other principals. Being in serious debt is NOT FUNNY and people have become seriously depressed over finances.

I know people that have filed bankruptcy and lives still were ruined because they did not stop the spending pattern.

I DO believe the article DID mention taking advantage of your 401K plans and IRAs. The other items in that article such as paying your mortgage off early are great financial advice.


Subject: Actually, most financial gurus will NOT tell you to pay off your home.
Date: Feb 25 18:57
Author: Empowered

That whole thing about home ownership is ingrained in the morg about being self-sufficient.

The fact is, mortgage interest is one of the FEW tax deductions left. With interest rates as low as they are, you can invest the money elsewhere (preferably mutual funds, stock, etc. with a higher rate of return). They will also tell you to pay off high-interest credit cards, etc. first. I saw a show on finances once...about wealthy people and how they do it...every single one of them said they would NOT pay off their homes...deduct the interest...and invest that "extra" elsewhere.

Subject: Re: Actually, most financial gurus will NOT tell you to pay off your home.
Date: Feb 25 20:53
Author: anon

Some gurus will say pay it off and some say don't for the reasons you mentioned and because it is the cheapest money you can borrow. OBVIOUSLY, don't pay it off if you still make car payments, have credit card debt etc... because it is tax deductible whereas the others are not.

Some say pay the house off because even if you are paying low interest you are STILL paying interest. I guess it is a matter of choice. I know someone who is paying theirs off early so they will not have a mortgage when the kids get to college.

Subject: Re: New Ensign article on Tithing!! -- In all seriousness,
Date: Feb 25 19:13
Author: ProvoJoe

Correct, it did mention the use of IRA's and other tax favored plans.

However, I just found it ironic that the first thing mentioned about how one can better their financial situation had to do with tithe paying.

If you find yourself in a hole, it should have said to stop digging, not continue.

Subject: More evidence that we are just instruments for the Morg's purposes
Date: Feb 25 18:37
Author: Mojo Jojo

Once again Gordy gives us evidence that the rank and file don’t mean shit to him. They are only instruments through which he pursues other ends.

Facing repossession of your house or car? Forget it! Gordy needs the money to buy another fancy chandelier for another McTemple that nobody will bother to attend. But my oh my how the faithful will praise Gordy because “by golly, he’s built so many temples, he must be a true prophet.”

Want to take your family on a vacation and create lasting memories for your children? No way Jose! Gordy needs the money to buy another parcel of land so that the Morg can distort truth by offering a sugar-coated, saccharine, faith promoting history.

Need to buy food for your children? Are you kidding? Gordy needs the money to build yet another chapel. “The Church must be true, why look at how fast it’s growing!”

Desire to give money to worthy charitable causes (one’s that actually account for the money you give them)? Want to feed a child, give someone potable water, or help with education. You selfish bastard! Gordy needs the money to (under) pay an ever growing church bureaucracy. If the church didn’t intrude on every part of your life before, just you wait.

Want to return the love your parents gave you as a child by helping to finance long-term care during their declining years? You unworthy servant! Gordy needs the money to build yet another trophy monument to his prophetic greatness.

“And the money kept rolling in . . . from every where. Gordy’s hand reached out and it reach wide.”

The poor pathetic, credulous, gullible, brainwashed, brain addled dupes who buy into this transparent money grabbing bullshit.

Subject: Finances....
Date: Feb 25 18:45
Author: Still-Too-Close

A few months ago my bishop (after I told him I didn't believe anymore) tried to give me a calling to teach a class on finances or help some struggling people get a handle on things. He wanted me to know that it was important that I teach that church offerings were the key and should be paid first. I declined because, in my mind, buying food and paying rent COMES BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE!!!!

Why doesn't the church tell you to buy food with the $$$ instead of demanding the $$$ and giving you food from the storehouse. I know, I know, it's the old double bind thing. It's everywhere.

Subject: Mormons really believe this bullplop.
Date: Feb 25 18:49
Author: Moablo

I've had TBM's tell me that if they didn't pay their tithing, they wouldn't be able to make ends meet.


Subject: Re: Mormons really believe this bullplop.
Date: Feb 25 19:23
Author: I think

I agree with all of the aforementioned comments - what a bunch of crap.

M0' Logic 101 - if an entire family is NOT making it financially, hey, I Gordo the impotent, manipulative cult-leader, COMMAND as God's only voice, that the ONLY answer that will not land your family in the biprick's office for disciplinary action is to give MY Corp. your measly 10%.

But wait, there's more......then, I swear in the name of Elohim and Elijah, et al, that your family will be "blessed". I do NOT admit that "blessed" is an intangible, magical, subjective entity.

As we, the Hierarchy of the World, have quoted so many times, you and your dirt-poor family, Will receive these "blessings" that will help you scrape by until next month when we start all over again (unless we've disciplined you).

You might happen to be sitting in your kitchen and find a check written to you by your Uncle Nephi 37 years ago that is the Exact amount of money you need to pay off your rent for the month. Or whatever, but something Will happen....blah blah blah {what cultish, manipulative, sadistic dribble}

And now for a bit of actual reality: I know of over a dozen people, personally, who have paid their tithing Before their house payments, etc. and have ended up BANKRUPT. Eight of these families lost their homes and six ended up HOMELESS for differing periods of time. None, I repeat, none, said they got any monetary help from the Morg, although several asked. And remember, UT, which is 70% moron, has the highest bankruptcy rate in the nation, per capita. Go figure....

The actual results of not just believing this bullshit, but acting on it like a deer in headlights, is that people, families, children, SUFFER needlessly - and those sociopaths do not care.

Cult = money, power, control and a complete lack of altruism. Die Morg, die....

Subject: What TBM wife did with $600,000
Date: Feb 25 19:22
Author: Eddie

My TBM wife and I recently realized a net gain of $600K on the sale of real estate. (We're in So. Cal., the land of $1M tear-downs.)

When escrow closed three months ago we received a large check. She took it to our bank, deposited it, and hasn't said a thing about paying tithing on it!

We have an agreement that she pays tithing on "her half" of our income. So we have an effective tithing rate of 5 percent.

Maybe she knows I'd strangle her if she even thought about paying the Morg $30K . . . or maybe she's finally loosening up.

Feeling better about my marriage, I am


Subject: Your post just goes to show that you were blessed in spite of not tithing.
Date: Feb 25 20:02
Author: free

Congrats on the $600,00.

Subject: I think this guy is trying to drum up business
Date: Feb 25 20:33
Author: Merilynn

Hey, what a great gig. You're a bankruptcy attorney, so you encourage people to do things that will drive them to bankruptcy. Who are they going to call? I know, how about that attorney who wrote the article for the Ensign. At least he won't treat us like we're morons for paying money to our church when we couldn't pay our bills.

Working in legal offices in Provo is such an eye popper. It's just common stuff that people will come in prepared to file Chapter 13 but that very month they gave $400 to the Morg. Do they not see that paying tithing is not reaping them blessings? What's worse is so many bishops will encourage this kind of behavior. And we wonder why the divorce rate is so high in the Morg. Duh!

Subject: And then when they DO get divorced...
Date: Feb 25 23:35
Author: Empowered

...they can't afford child support and alimony...but DAMNED if they don't keep paying that tithing!!

Subject: If the president says this then....
Date: Feb 25 21:06
Author: Bob

If the prophet, and president says that tithing payment is a solution for financial problems, then can't we sue him when our finances don't improve?

Subject: I would think they could be sued for giving financial advice...
Date: Feb 25 23:36
Author: Empowered

...without a Securities license!

Subject: Financial irresponsibility and the Morg
Date: Feb 26 19:21
Author: Chris_Trommater

My ward was in a university town, thus the bulk of parishioners were young couples. You know the story the man is in college and the wife stays home with the kids. I wondered how these folks got by at all considering that student loans and contributions from family members were their only form of income. Lo and behold when the subject of elder's quorum was tithing. In addition to the normal course of "you will receive blessings" and that "tithes are your fire insurance (I fully expect Jesus to come crashing through my office door any second now throwing fire balls and screaming WHY HAVEN'T YOU BEEN PAYING YOUR TITHING???!!)" the students in the audience were encouraged to (get this) pay tithing on their student loans. They were told that this was not required but that they should do it just in case (so Jesus would not burn them up in the second coming). 

The promise of blessings and lack of incineration aside Utah ranks as the third poorest state in the union and has among the highest per capita instances of bankruptcy and business failures. In addition to tithing Mormons also: 1.) Marry and have multiple children that they are not financially prepared to support and discourage two income families (even when there is clearly a financial need), 2.) waste hundreds or even thousands of dollars on food storage schemes in preparation for the second coming of Christ, 3.) spend tens of thousands of dollars and two years of their pivotal early life (when they should be beginning their education or learning a skill or trade) on "missions" usually to places in the US that have far less financial need than their own impoverished corridor. Incidentally the origin of sending nineteen year old boys on missions to the civilized world was during the polygamy period when it was necessary to dispose of all the young men so that the young women could be taken (often forcibly) into the harems of older members. The Church sells itself as providing a happy, healthy lifestyle but it is like the story of the Emperor's New Suit. Did anyone in the crowd think to yell "hey he's naked, look he's got a birthmark on his butt in the shape of a banana"? No, because that would mean that they were unworthy to see the emperor's suit and no one would admit to that.

See also: 313
Paying Tithing Never Brought Blessings

Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church

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