Subject: Mormons tricked my 6 year old son into going to church, yeah ...there might be swearing
Date: Sep 20 12:15
Author: JohnTheFred

My son hasn't gone to a church function in months, maybe even a year. He does however, have Mormon friends. On occasion he visits with one his age and they hang out after school and play video games.

Well, it's been several months since my wife has gone to church. She doesn't have a calling anymore and could be considered inactive. She is still a TBM. I don't quite understand this phenomenon but it's there and I know she would raise our son as a Mormon if she had her way.

Anyway, Yesterday my son asks TBM wife if he can go over to his friends house after school and play. When my son arrives at their house he is then informed that they have a church function to attend and of course they haul my son to church with them.

When I got home from work I asked my son what he played at his friends house. From the look on his face I knew there was something wrong and I guessed it right away. I asked him if they went to church and the answer was yes.

I proceeded to ask him how he felt about going to church and he said he hated it because he wanted, and expected to play video games. I then asked him if he thought he was tricked into going to church and he said, "yes." He also pointed out that tricking was the same as lying and not very nice. I asked him if his friend was happy about going to church and he said, "yes, he is a bold Mormon."

I then asked my son if thought the church ever lies, the answer was, "yes." I also asked him why the church lies and he said, "because they need lots of people to give them money." I don't think my son will ever be completely brainwashed by this f*cking cult but, I sure do get tired of having to go into deprogramming mode.


Subject: Are you saying they transported your child in their car to a church destination
Date: Sep 20 12:43
Author: Cheryl

without first getting parent permission??

That's awful! I'm outraged and I don't even know this little boy.

You handled it well with him after the fact.

Apparently, these people can't be trusted. Guess I'd suggest letting their kid play at your house only, unless they agree never to pull this stunt again.

Parents have a right to know where their children are at all times. You had no way of preventing this from happening since they're liars. But they might be bad drivers or not do seatbelts or have a dangerous car, and you had a right to determine if your child should go with them. He's too little to tell them no and make it stick.

Sorry this happened. : (


Subject: That is exactly what I am saying, they did indeed transport him with out asking
Date: Sep 20 16:02
Author: JohnTheFred

My son is a very bright boy for a 6 year old. It was my son who suggested that he not go over to his friends house anymore.

As for my son's friend playing at our house, well that never happens. I asked my wife why he doesn't come over here and she said the boy has pet allergies. Funny thing, last time I picked my son up at his friends house I noticed the pet hair and dander all over the carpet furniture. It was disgusting. They clearly know of my apostasy and don't want it to rub off on their kid. But, it seems ok for them to rub their religion off on my son.


Subject: This was one of the first things my non-mormon
Date: Sep 20 16:20
Author: They don't want me back

boyfriend (now husband) questioned about the church when we started dating. The presumption that everything they did was all right and would not be questioned. He hated that these people thought that they could supercede parents authority and just do what they $#&%ing wanted without any notice. And stupid me didnít see anything wrong with either at the time he had to point out that they were exploiting us.


Subject: your kid is lucky
Date: Sep 20 12:44
Author: angsty

to have a dad who's going to make damn sure he's not vulnerable to nonsense. Good job Dad!


Subject: Re: Mormons tricked my 6 year old son into going to church, yeah ...there might be swearing
Date: Sep 20 14:37
Author: Shelby

If you talk to your friends parents about the incident, express your concern about their taking your son somewhere without your permission. If they apoplogize, or even if they get defensive, say "Don't worry about it. It gave me a great opportunity to teach my son about how the church tricks people into attending and tells lies. The funniest part is that my son said he thinks the church does that because they want people to join and give them money. So while I don't appreciate what you did, I am happy I had a chance to show my son the true nature of the church." They'll be speechless. BTW, this is just what I would do. It may not be your style. When I re-read my post it sounded kinda bossy but all advice I give is just a suggestion. :)


Subject: I love your suggestion to turn it on them!! But, wait, is this considered kidnapping?
Date: Sep 20 15:26
Author: Tiphanie

I might call the police and ask if this could be at all considered kidnapping, as your child was taken to a location without your knowledge or permission. If this isn't kidnapping outright, it is very very close to it.

Once I knew legally what their actions were, I would call the parents and let them have it. I admit I'm really pissed off that anyone would dare do this to another human being, esp a child, so my wording is very strong. Which wording will be IMMEDIATELY circulated throughout at least a few Mos in the area, putting everyone on notice that taking anyone's child anywhere without their permission is WRONG, DANGEROUS, and ILLEGAL!!

I'd start with "This is JtF. I just got done talking to the police about you taking my son to a location without my permission. The police confirm that is KIDNAPPING {OR whatever they tell you it is.} I have not yet decided about pressing charges against you. I am going to call your stake president and tell him how you got your child to LIE to my son, and then proceeded to {kidnap} him. btw, my son now knows that you use your kids as LURES, and that Mormons lie."

PS: Your son can't go play with those messed up kids anymore, sorry. Help him make other friends who have sane, responsible and caring parents. :)


Subject: I would be very very very angry -
Date: Sep 20 15:07
Author: Susan I/S

You sent him to play at their HOUSE period. That is the only place he had permission to be. If they had to go ANY place they should have called and OKed it. Doesn't matter if it was church,mall,grocery store or gym. If in the unlikly instance that something did go wrong it is important for parents to know where their kids are, who they are with. And my guess is that when they got to church they turned your son over to the supervision of another adult. I see this as taking your kid to the mall and turning him over to one of those babysitting services. You are the only one that has the right to make those decisions. And I bet ya they knew in advance they had to go to church so add sneaky into the mix. There may even be legal ramifications to this. I have seen on the court shows where an adult is held responsible for the injury or actions of a minor when they were not supervised adequately and turning a kid over to others would sure fall in that category.

I would make it very clear to the parents that they were not to take your son outside of their property unless they have prior permission from YOU.


Subject: I would never take anyone's child anywhere in my car...
Date: Sep 21 00:12
Author: Beaglie

Without asking a parent.




Subject: You should confront the Mormon parents about what they did.
Date: Sep 20 15:21
Author: FreeAtLast

They need to be told that what they did was wrong and if they ever try something like it again, they'll be receiving a visit from the police and legal action via your lawyer. Do not let this one go without confronting them; their Mormonism-cult mindset needs to be penetrated sharply.

I'd suggest you send them a registered letter or one sent via courier (proof of delivery) and tell them in the letter that they owe your son an apology for tricking him. Show your son the letter so that he'll know what his father has done on his behalf and that the Mormon parents are fully aware of your position as his father in case they ever intend on tricking him into attending a church function again. He may not want to go back to their house.


Subject: Why do the friend's parents think it's OK to take your kid anywhere without asking?
Date: Sep 20 15:32
Author: munchybotaz

That's just basic child safety. I think you should confront them about it.


Subject: Are you sure your wife wasn't in on the plot? Make sure before you confront the neighbors. n/t
Subject: It is possible that my wife was in on it, however, she denies it. n/t


Subject: Are you some kind of tyrant?
Date: Sep 21 03:36
Author: apostate

Are you some kind of tyrant who forbids his wife to go to church? You said that if your wife had her way, she would be raising the kid LDS. So I'm just wondering.
Or is your wife one of those lazy parents who wants their kid to be raised LDS but they can't be bothered?
My friend has a friend who sends her kids to church with the grandparents every sunday.
I guess for her, a couple hours of free babysitting is worth sending your kids into a cult.


Subject: I'm assuming JTF feels relieved that his wife has lapsed into inactivity.
Date: Sep 21 05:59
Author: Cheryl

It might give her time to gradually gain a less TBM perspective.

It's sometimes lucky that the TBM spouse has trouble facing church services alone and just stays home. Hope this works out well for this family. It seems to be working for the little six year old.


Subject: I am not tyrant?
Date: Sep 21 13:54
Author: JohnTheFred

And yes for a couple of years she sent the older kids to church with her sister every Sunday

I don't quite understand how she can be a TBM and also be completely inactive. She also picks and chooses the parts of mo-ism that she wants to follow.


Subject: That's EXACTLY why...
Date: Sep 20 16:06
Author: mrstruthseeker

That's EXACTLY why I'm putting an entire "Do Not Contact My Children" paragraph in my resignation letter. It sounds a bit extreme, but I know how TSCC works. When I was TBM, we used to say "if you can get the kids to church, the parents will come too". I know they'll target my kids.


Yep...definitely leaving that paragraph in my letter! Which, BTW, is almost done and ready to print and mail!


Subject: It's a bit more complex then that.
Date: Sep 21 14:47
Author: Vasalissa's Little Doll

What if their motives hadn't been so charitable? The original poster was functioning under the assumption that if his son went over to their home, that he would be safe, and in the same location if something happened.

With modern statistics on things like child abuse and abduction, it takes some pretty special people for me to let my daughter spend time at someone's home without me. If someone decided to use that trust (on purpose or as an act of stupidity) to take my child elsewhere and I suddenly couldn't reach her? I would call the police, and there would be hell to pay.

Outside of, say, rural Idaho, we live in an era where it takes work on the part of adults for children to have the innocent childhood they deserve. All it would have taken was a phone call.


Subject: Why go nuclear on the first strike?
Date: Sep 20 19:03
Author: 3X

Telephone the miscreants, explain that your son is not a mormon and is not to be taken to church again. Use plain, sober, unemotional language.

Keep the thermo-nuclear weapons in reserve ...


Subject: Re: Why go nuclear on the first strike?
Date: Sep 20 19:08
Author: bona dea

That would be my response. First, I would ask why they chose to take your son with them. Explain that he felt he was invited under false pretenses and ask if that is true. If they have a "good" reason for taking him, instruct them to call you next time and you will pick him up. Then tell them that they are not to take you child anywhere without your prior permission. Also, tell them your feelings about the church if they don't know and let them know that tricks like this aren't working. I would be calm, polite and firm the first time.


Subject: What degree of TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE are those people?
Date: Sep 20 19:17
Author: flattopSF

What if, doG forbid, they had gotten into a serious car accident while doing their "Holy Duty," and you thought your son was safely playing at their home?

There are several good suggestions for your response to them already posted. I'd only add that you might want to clarify that they are never to f**k with your son's mind again, or you'll introduce them to your local police chief, and not in a good way. Parents make religious decisions for their own children, not for the children of others. There is an issue of guardianship at stake here that those parents don't appear to be aware of.

Good luck, and best wishes.


Subject: Re: Mormons tricked my 6 year old son into going to church, yeah ...there might be swearing
Date: Sep 20 19:29
Author: bona dea

I would go over some of the "what ifs" with them. Flat Top's was good. Another would be an emergency where you need to get a hold of your son immediately. Maybe you get a call that you father is seriously ill and you need to catch the next flight out. You don't need to spend hours tracking down your kid first. There are plenty of reasons why this was irresponsible. Religion is certainly one, but there are plenty of others.I' certainly would bring up the religious aspect, but I wouldn't stop there.


Subject: My parents did what they did when I was a child
Date: Sep 21 04:49
Author: Lavender

I was eight and my brother was about three(ish). The little neighbor girl across the street was his best friend and closest playmate, and the same age. They were playing one Sunday before church and my mother came out to get my brother to change into church clothing. The little girl took interest and asked "Where are you going?"

My mother responded: "We're going to church."

The little girl asked: "Can I come?"

My mother said: "Yes, as long as it's okay with your parents. But you have to wear a dress." So off the neighbor ran. She came back a couple of minutes later in a dress and shoes. My mother thought nothing of it, loaded the whole family in the car, and took us to church.

When my mother was dropping my brother off at nursery and about to drop me off at Sunday school, the back door of the church FLEW open and in stormed the girl's mother.

To say she was PISSED, would be an understatement. She was boiling, seething, livid. She had gone over to our house to check on her daughter when my mother hadn't answered her phone calls. When she realized that we were gone, she began to panic because she had NO IDEA where her daughter had disappeared to. She then remembered that we were mormon and attended church, so she got in her car and started driving around trying to locate the mormon church (she hadn't a clue where it was or even what it looked like) and it took her nearly an HOUR to find it. But then she was fit to be tied.

She had NOT given permission for her daughter to go, her daughter didn't even ask. She corned my mother and demanded to know why she had kidnapped her daughter and taken her to a mormon church. They were CATHOLIC, after all. The neighbor was shaking, she was so angry. My mother mumbled something about the daughter saying it was okay, to which the neighbor raged: "You asked a THREE YEAR OLD and took her at her WORD? A THREE YEAR OLD?"

My mother stood there sheepishly, getting yelled at in front of many of the ward members. She didn't know what to say. She tried to say: "I didn't think anything of it-"

To which the neighbor just about screamed: "SHE'S THREE! YOU ASK ME, NOT HER!"

Oh yes. It was a big blow up. My mother was upset and humiliated for days. At the time I didn't understand why the girl's mother was so upset. We were taking her to church, where she SHOULD be. She should be THANKFUL! (which is what my father said)*shakes head*

And while I love my mother dearly, I look back at that situation and just shake my head. Who asks a three year old for parental consent?? Kids will tell you anything. It's incredible to me that she didn't realize what she was doing.

Seriously, who does that??


Subject: Re: My parents did what they did when I was a child
Date: Sep 21 06:54
Author: knotheadusc

Wow Lavender! That's a hell of a story. I can imagine that it must have been hard for your mom to face the neighbors after that incident! How embarrassing!

I can't blame the OP for being upset about this issue, though reading this thread did make me think about my own upbringing. As a kid, I spent a lot of time at my friend's house and I went wherever the family went. My mom was none the wiser. Of course, none of us were Mormon, either. Makes me think that childhood has gotten a lot more complicated... though I can imagine being scared witless if I sent my child somewhere to play and they ended up going on a field trip without my knowledge or permission.

I hope this all gets worked out!


Subject: Re: My parents did what they did when I was a child
Date: Sep 22 23:48
Author: Lavender

What is interesting is that my mother and the neighbor had been friends before this, and after a tense few months, mended their friendship. My mother was one of her closest friends up until when the neighbor died a couple years back.

But they NEVER discussed what happened with her daughter. I think that was why the neighbor was so hurt. They were friends and she thought my mother understood her boundaries. That they were catholic, and that my mother would respect their religion like they respected ours. She was utterly flabbergasted at what my mother had done.

Religion was a sore subject between the two of them, that rarely came up after that incident. I can't recall a single conversation after that point that centered on religion. After that day, they simply avoided it like the plague. And my mother made sure to explicitly check with the neighbor ANY TIME anything happened with her kids. She stung from that verbal lashing for years. (And rightly so)

Taking a child elsewhere without checking with the parents first is just an obscene error of judgment. It's absolutely reprehensible, in my opinion.


Subject: Re: Mormons tricked my 6 year old son into going to church, yeah ...there might be swearing
Date: Sep 21 06:57
Author: wisedup

Better really watch him at age 8. The cult people will start slobbering for the baptism. Probably, like vultures, the missionaries will start circling your house.


Subject: I *DID* "go nuclear" on the cult when they came after my kids . . .
Date: Sep 21 13:53
Author: JackMormon'sWife

Seriously . . . the entire Primary Presidency, YW Presidency, and the Bishopric. Although my kids weren't as small as JtF's, a couple were just as vulnerable as they were developmentally delayed or handicapped.

The entire ward tried to "fellowship" our family back into activity after we suddenly stopped attending (I found RfM, discovered the truth, and we were OUTTA there!) by stalking my kids - literally.

Yeah, I went ballistic. My career of 2 decades has been spent protecting children from harm. Don't EVEN go after my kids! I'm a mama lion.

JtF - call that dumb@ss Mormon woman and tell her *exactly* why it wasn't appropriate, ethical or legal to take your small child in her vehicle to a church function without your permission. And don't be shy about it.

Sometimes "nuclear" is the only thing obtuse Mormons can hear.



Subject: In Texas,
Date: Sep 21 17:32
Author: luminouswatcher

it is aggravated kidnapping. A person under 14 can not give consent to travel by car, it must come from a guardian.


Subject: isn't it just common courtesy to ask parents if you want to take their kid somewhere...anywhere
Date: Sep 23 01:06
Author: Bonnie

I would not take the neighbor kid to get ice cream or a slurpee without asking the parent--and I have known these folks for many years.

I would be upset that the neighbor didn't display common sense and courtesy. I would no longer be able to trust those folks.

hey, ya just don't take your neighbor's kids anywhere without asking the parents first. Not to church, not to a movie, nowhere.

I would not go ballistic on the parents--I would just say my child is no longer permitted to play with their child because I have no trust in them as responsible adults.

We want to know where our kids are at all times, don't we?

I do wonder how those parents would feel if you up and took their child away for a few hours.

What kind of adult does that?


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