Subject: Donít marry the man you Love! Marry the man who can get you closest toÖ
Date: Nov 03, 2008
Author: Tahoe Girl

Öthe celestial kingdom!

A couple of months after learning the truth about Mormonism, I was working with a girl in her early-twenties who had done just that. I was still living in Utah, and one day when I went to pick her up at a job site for one of the special needs students we worked with, she was talking with a man. I knew that she had been married for about 5 months, and since I had never met her husband, I asked if he was her husband. She blushed bright red and said no, heís an old boyfriend who stopped by to return something to her. They indicated that they had dated for 3 years, and watching their interaction with each other I could tell that they still loved each other. They had started dating when she was 19 and he was 18. She was trying to talk him into going on a mission (she was 23 and he was 22 at the time), and I learned that he had converted 2 years previous as a result of her influence. When she went away to get the student from a different part of the worksite, I chatted with this young man. He didnít want to go on a mission (and I advised against it). He also didnít want to go to Las Vegas to take an excellent job offer. His comment was that he didnít think heíd find the kind of girl he wanted to marry there Ė or something to that effect. By the way he spoke about her, I could tell that he really loved her and wanted to remain in the area Ė if only to be near her.

In the car on the way back to school, she told me her story. They had dated for 3 years, then she was ready to get married but he wasnít ready yet. So she dated other people and found a guy to marry. She had thought about waiting for this young man until he was ready to get married, but didnít know if he would actually decide to marry her when he was ready to marry. Then came the comment that just about did me in. She said that looking at both of these guys, she chose the guy she eventually married because he would be able to get her closer to the celestial kingdom than the young man she dated for 3 years and loved! She didnít have the same feelings for her husband as she did for her old boyfriend, but by golly she was sure to get closer to the celestial kingdom! Her heart was still hurting.

Damn the influence of Mormonism on our young lives!!! I now look back at the lost loves and opportunities in my own young life because of that influence. There were guys who really, really, really liked me a lot, and who treated me well. But I chose a guy who was a worthy priesthood holder, who could take me the temple as I had always been told I should do. Even before we were married, there were red flags regarding his inability to have a really good relationship, and he was emotionally abusive. BUTÖa temple marriage was the goal, and if you have a temple marriage, youíll have a wonderful, happy marriage! Anything less than a temple marriage just wonít do!!! Damn, damn, DAMN the mormon influence!!! Mormon marriages are NOT about LOVE! I gave everything had to my husband. I treated him so well. I spoiled him, gave him lots of attention, fed him well, wore naughty lingerie to please him, surprised him with sex in different places, built up his ego. When I got married, I naively believed that if we got married in the temple and I did everything I possibly could to make him happy, that we would have a wonderful marriage. The trouble was, he didnít try to make me happy. As a matter of fact, he hated it when I was happy. And he was happy when he made me upset and cry. He was emotionally abusive. Damn temple marriage!!!

This has all come to the forefront recently as I watch my teenage son and his relationship with his girlfriend. They really, really like each other a lot. Being exmo now, he doesnít have the confines of choosing someone with mormon standards of behavior or morality. He can choose someone that he is really attracted to and that he really, really likes without concern regarding religion. He treats her wonderfully (better than my now-ex-husband ever treated me), and she treats him well also. Theyíve become very close and are quite attached to each other.

SighÖIím really glad for him. Iím glad that heíll always feel free to choose. I canít go back in time, and Iím not going to dwell on what might have been, but DAMN that mormon influence!!!



Subject: The story of my life, Tahoe Girl.
Date: Nov 03 19:00
Author: forestpal

In the LDS cult, "love" is one of the least understood concepts. The LDS cult does not teach, preach, or practice love.

Yet, "Love" is the first and most important commandment from God.

This is my first argument that the LDS is NOT a Christian organization.

"Love" is not mentioned in the Mormon temple marriage vows.

My story has a happy ending. My temple RM wife-beater husband did not succeed in killing me, and the laws of the land protected me and allowed me a civil divorce. Both of my dear atheist soul-mates got over the rejection and found someone else, and have been very happily married for many years.

"DAMN that Mormon influence!"


Subject: Re: Donít marry the man you Love! Marry the man who can get you closest toÖ
Date: Nov 03 19:14
Author: JJ

I heard that or similar sayings A LOT in YW [Young Women] and singles RS [Relief Society]. So very sad.


Subject: What a sad, sad story TG . . .
Date: Nov 03 19:31
Author: JackMormon'sWife

So glad your son has broken the cycle.

Shannon ;o)


Subject: So True
Date: Nov 03 19:46
Author: freedomofthought

I was dating a mo girl. I was nonmo. We got along great. I can tell she loved me and still does to this day even though she is marrying a douche bag pisshood holder. Another non college educated dork. And I watch her interactions with him there is no love there, its a cold relationship. I see lust and I see her doing it cause she is an "old maid" at 28. The only times she smiled was when she was with me. She does not smile with him. I never hear her tell him she loves him. Though the TBM defenses will kick in if I tell her that or tell her anything she is doing is wrong. So yes DAMN the LDS church and DAMN its old fart leaders for taking beautiful people and F*cking with them.

What I do see in her future is another miserable marriage except with kids this time. I see maybe another divorce. I see one or the other cheating. Once the lust wears off and it always does and there is no love and no commitment, its a marriage held together only by a kid or by fear or by attempt at CK. Oh but wait he's a more valiant priesthood holder than the first husband who wasn't a mishie and he's got the priesthood I don't have.


Subject: I hear ya. My 2 NoMo siblings have good marriages, while my brother & I who converted and married -
Date: Nov 03 20:15
Author: Topper

into Mormonism are the ones who've experienced Temple divorces. I was married 32 years with four kids. My brother's marriage of 20 years and four kids will be ending soon.


Subject: I agree. I do have a "happy ending"--considering I have my second
Date: Nov 03 23:55
Author: cl2

chance, but I got my daughter out of mormonism for the most part at age 10 and she is repeating my story almost exactly. THEN, my son married a mormon girl--well, she came from a TBM family and she was the most mixed up girl I've ever met. She certainly didn't fit the mormon image, but she kept coming back at him with a mission and temple marriage--and I won't go into what I saw her as. She just would keep saying the things she heard her parents say. AND they ended up divorced because she is so messed up.

So--I THOUGHT I'd save my kids from the insanity of mormon marriage, but it doesn't look like I did a very good job.


Subject: Re: For love or church....
Date: Nov 04 00:16
Author: Hap E. Heretic

I can't tell you how many hasty engagements and marriages I've witnessed between my friends and acquaintances over the years.

I've seen couples engaged within 9 days of meeting each other.

I've known people who told me they knew as they were kneeling across the altar from each other that they didn't love their bride/groom, but went ahead and did it anyway. Without exception, these people have all divorced.

And I reconnected with my best friend from high school for our 20th reunion, only to find out that after 18 years of marriage and four kids, she was divorcing him due to physical abuse. The final straw was when he put her in the hospital with a broken nose.

So many pathetic examples of rushing to the altar to secure that berth in the CK, with little or no love involved in the bargain, and more than a little dysfunction or outright abuse.

I agree wholeheartedly that Mormon matrimony is, all too often, a sick joke and a mirage, perpetrated on the membership.

So often, love or even basic compatibility has nothing to do with it.


Subject: Ouch!
Date: Nov 04 07:30
Author: 3X
Mail Address:  

How about "don't get married until you know yourself"?

That would eliminate a lot of doomed marriages - possibly replacing them later with something more workable.

("Later" might mean "decades later")


Subject: A couple years ago in HP class
Date: Nov 04 06:59
Author: confused

We had this very lesson. It was about marriage and I think it was out of the last manual before J Smith teachings, but it was along the same lines. I really couldn't find any romantic content. I commented that I felt differently, but maybe that was just me.

So our HPGL said that you could pair any two together and if they really lived their religion, there would be no reason not to have a happy marriage.

Ummm, okay...


Subject: Re: A couple years ago in HP class
Date: Nov 04 08:15
Author: truth or Bob Barker

Pair any two together? Sounds like a stud farm, to me!

There are a lot of people in other religions who are all living their religion: does that mean you could take any two of them-- male and female-- and end up with happiness?

SOMEBODY, in Mo-Ville, is awfully shallow.

On second thought, most High Priests, in MoVille, are shallow idiots, anyway.


Subject: The horrible Mormon Trap
Date: Nov 04 10:26
Author: Been There

Mormon boys come home from two-year missions with their hormones boiling, and are then told to marry soon. Mormon Girls are in a panick to get engaged before the end of collage (at BYU). They are both told they can't go wrong with a Temple marriage. They are also told not to wait to have children. So, these kids come soon and the young parents are both deeply trapped in the Mormon church for the rest of their lives

They get sucked into this stupid swamp early in life before they even know who they are.

Dirty trick!


Subject: "Look to your right, look to your left, if that person is worthy you'll have a good marriage."
Date: Nov 04 10:08
Author: Bad Advice

My wife heard that advice at a BYU Forum when she was a student there! She laughed however because she was sitting between two WOMEN!

This church and its magical thinking is crazy!


Subject: That was my great grandmother's theory. Didn't work out so well for all of her temple
Date: Nov 04 10:55
Author: ava

married grandchildren. (we've got the same divorce rate as the rest of the country in the family currently, around 60% - no matter where people married, temple or otherwise).


Subject: It is really is an old Christian theme (perhaps other religions as well)
Date: Nov 04 10:14
Author: Puli

This life is really the sh*ts so every decision you make is supposed to prepare for a better life to come after you leave this life. It is a rather sad way to spend the time we have here. Too bad any large organization would promote such an idea.


Subject: Re: Donít marry the man you Love! Marry the man who can get you closest toÖ
Date: Nov 04 11:23
Author: Cherokee Woman (not signed in)

You hit the nail on the head. This is the part that really still angers me the most about the morg. I escaped one pre-arranged marriage and got trapped in another in order to reach the CK. At the time we met I wasn't dating or looking and wasn't even interested in marriage. I was tricked into a blind date and within a month pressured into marrying him and having children or else I was doomed. Five months later we were married. We never had children because he was sterile but somehow that was my fault to.

Fifeteen years later divorced and I went through a lot of de-programming to reach the point I am at. I realized during counseling that I never wanted children and I never wanted to be married, that my path was actually different.

I really resent their interference in my life to include going from an extravert to an introvert and back to an extravert, from being single and happy, married and miserable, to being single and happy again and their interfering in my cultural upbringing, just mentioning a few.

After being in the dating field for almost a 1 year and seven months (btw I started dating immediately after the divorce) I have honestly decided that I will never marry again. I am enjoying being single, don't get me wrong I do enjoy the company of a man as long as he goes home at some point but I don't want to live with one ever again. I don't want to marry and I still don't want children.


Subject: Sad story
Date: Nov 04 11:26
Author: BYU Alum

Many years ago, while under the influence of the Morg, I dated a Molly for quite a while. I was a convert and did not yet hold the priesthood. I wanted to develop the relationship, learn more, and see where it would take us.

Although we both were very happy with each other and very attractive to one another, she moved on because she wanted a RM penis holder. Broke my heart.


Subject: The most important commitment of your life -- made under the stupidest of conditions.
Date: Nov 04 11:42
Author: Mad

All for the sake of CHURCH CONTROL! The Morg catches you when you are most vulnerable, idealistic, and sex crazed. It uses simplistic ideas and grand magical images to suck you into a life that you may not be able to escape - especially after you have children.

It's abusive manipulation of young people for the sake of institutional power.


Subject: When I was EQ Pres
Date: Nov 04 11:58
Author: confused

One young man came up to me and asked my advice. He was madly in love with a young woman who had had some premarital trouble a couple years prior and paid dearly for it.

He asked me what I thought, and I asked him-do you believe in repentance and forgiveness? Yes. Do you love her? Yes. Did you know she worships the very ground you stand on? Did you know that everyone can see it in her eyes when you come here?

My advice? You'd be a fool to pass this up.


Subject: Brigham Young knew how to enslave people.
Date: Nov 04 12:01
Author: Reader

From a recent post:

...a marvelously illuminating book. Baskin came to Utah in 1865 after earning a Harvard education, served as the lead prosecutor in John D. Lee's first trial, and ultimately became a Utah Supreme Court Justice
">One of the characteristic expressions of Brigham Young was "Tie up the calf, and the cow will not stray away from her home." To accomplish the end indicated by that expression, he forced (and was enabled to do so because he was generally regarded by his adherents as being the mouthpiece of God on earth) many of the wealthier and more influential members of his church into polygamy who would not, voluntarily, have married plural wives. A Mormon polygamist, if he should apostatize, would immediately, as Brigham well knew, be ostracized by his former brethren, and could not hope by moving with his polygamous family away from a Mormon community, to escape proscription, or form respectable social relations elsewhere among Christian people. Therefore a member of the Mormon church, by marrying plural wives, figuratively tied up the calf, and if he afterwards apostatized from the church would have been placed in a most distressing position by his polygamous connections." (p. 163)

Once a man took on a second wife and family there was no way that he could leave Zion. And he couldn't live anywhere else in America with TWO families - only in UTAH. Considering that he couldn't leave his second family behind, he was locked-in to Mormonism for life!

The entire thing started with the church tempting the men with promises of additional SEX. And for the women, they don't marry for love -- they marry for the CK (which meant polygamy in those days).

How many men and women were told that love is a secondary matter to exaltation? Then, as Brigham put it, "tied up the calf" to keep them in line!


Subject: Re: Donít marry the man you Love! Marry the man who can get you closest toÖ
Date: Nov 04 13:12
Author: CA Girl

I was in a RS mtg in SLC 10 or so years ago. The teacher asked "Why do we encourage our children to marry so young?" One sister raised her hand and said "So they won't go out into the world, be tempted by the things of the world and will stay close to the gospel." All the other sisters nodded their head in self-righteous agreement. I was too stunned by that bit of stupidity to respond. I didn't marry right out of BYU, traveled the world and had a career. By then I was married, however, and I remember thinking - "Well, if those things tempt you you don't have much of a testimony." Wish I'd said that.

I bought the whole temple marriage, happily ever after fairytale hook, line and sinker. Married an RM I didn't know well, thinking that is all it took. I hung on to that hope of a happily ever after, even though I was miserable, for a very long time. Thankfully, being able to see what Moism does to a person has helped me start to understand my TBM husband. I wish it could restore some of the love he's destroyed over the years but at least we are to the point where we can get along as friends, most of the time (not yesterday but that's another post :)

This is why I come here - because I'm really good at knowing something is wrong and absolutely terrible at being able to articulate what it is. Reading other peoples' stories I think "Yeah, that's ME" and "I feel that way too." Thank you for helping me figure out what is wrong in my life - it's the first step to being able to fix it.


Subject: "Bishop, please make up my mind for me."
Date: Nov 04 14:18
Author: Out For good

I dated a girl and we had a ton of fun, we enjoyed many of the same things, but we did go "too far" once and I wasn't a temple worthy member at the time.

She ran to her bishop and I was a dead man from that point on. Ok, we did make one mistake together, but we were truly in love. She just refused to trust her own direct feelings and knowledge - the bishop came first, and I came last.


Subject: My parents recently ended one of these marriages, unfortunately
Date: Nov 04 13:17
Author: 4 cow wife

it was 35+ years and 6 kids in the making. It is sad they didn't marry for love, however it was also their self righteousness that sent them down that path. It's the "I am right and have the truth" syndrome. They were the cocky we are going to heaven because they did everything they were "supposed to do". Only to complain decades later when it all fell apart. It sucks being a kid in all of that. The arrogance (sp) involved kills me. They f'ed up 6 kids in this sick experiment.


Subject: AMEN, Tahoe Girl! I married your DH's twin, separated at birth!


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