Subject: Please post chauvinism from profits - Mormon prophets
Date: Nov 06, 2008
Author: byTheirLogicYouShallKnowThem

I would like to collect chauvinistic/sexist comments by profits. Please post them for me here. Much appreciated!

so far I have the two from Hinckley (possessions, and don't marry a girl more educated)


Subject: my personal favorites, courtesy of Heber C Kimball
Date: Nov 06 10:18
Author: Darquestar

"I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Twenty Seventh Wife, Irving Wallace, p. 101.

"I say to those who are elected to go on missions, remember they are not your sheep: they belong to Him that sends you. Then do not make a choice of any of those sheep; do not make selections before they are brought home and put into the fold. You under stand that. Amen" - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.256.

or to put that another way....

"Brethren, I want you to understand that it is not to be as it has been heretofore. The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; hereafter you have to bring them all here before taking any of them, and let us all have a fair shake." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Lion of the Lord, New York, 1969, pp.129-30.

Fabulous stuff!



Subject: “What!-sustain a woman, a wife, in preference to sustaining ...........
Date: Nov 06 10:27
Author: dja

....... the Prophet Joseph, brother Brigham, and his brethren! Your religion is vain when you take that course.”
“Women were never placed to lead”
“Women are to be led.”
“If I am not a good man, …… What, then, should be done with me? Make a eunuch of me, and stop my propagation.
HeberKimball JoD 5;27

......I would love to see him debate Texas Governor Ann Richards and Gloria Steinem.

- Brigham Young; Journal Of Discourses; vol. 17; 159

is a disgrace, too, to the sisters, as well as the brethren, who thirst after the vain fashions and foolish practices of the world.
- Brigham Young; Journal Of Discourses; vol. 19

Wont you be so kind and so good as to take those pins or the india-rubber cords out of the back of the skirts of your dresses, so that you will look comely. They make you look uncomely, to see your dresses drawn around you, showing your form. Mothers ought to be ashamed of teaching their children such things.
- Brigham Young; Journal Of Discourses; vol. 19

“But when a man does his duty in providing for a family, there can reasonably be but little complaint on the part of any sensible woman.”
JoD 4:312

“If I should undertake to drive a woman, I should have to drive her before me”
JoD 4: 15 Jedediah Grant

“every ….. man's wives to take a course to please their husband
JoD 4: 15

“Women were never placed to lead”
JoD 4: 15

“We are trained not to see male privilege.”
to be silent is to participate in an abuse of authority and to damage the community that I care about.’” I believe that the present structure of the church damages women's sense of worth.”
- Margaret Toscano; excommunicated BYU professor


Subject: Fairly Recent from GBH
Date: Nov 06 14:10
Author: angsty

"Rise up and discipline yourself to take advantage of educational opportunities," President Hinckley said. "Do you wish to marry a girl whose education has been far superior to your own? We speak of being 'equally yoked.' That applies, I think, to the matter of education."'

I'm sure most Mormons heard this as "get educated to be worthy of your companion", but it suggests that a man is diminished somehow by being in a partnership with a woman of superior education- and that is highly offensive.


Subject: Reference
Date: Nov 06 14:12
Author: angsty,5232,49-1-646-23,00.html

Come to think of it, it's also insulting to refer to adult women as girls- something prevalent in LDS culture.


Subject: Some gems.....
Date: Nov 06 15:48
Author: Get 'em

After the death of Joseph Smith in June 1844, the Relief Society did not meet. The following spring several women must have approached Brigham Young about resuming regular meetings, for in a meeting of the Seventies Young declared that:

Sister[s] . . . have no right to meddle in the affairs of the kingdom of God . . . [they] never can hold the Priesthood apart from their husbands. When I want Sisters or the Wives of the members of the church to get up Relief Society I will summon them to my aid but until that time let them stay at home & if you see females huddling together veto the concern . . . and if they say Joseph started it tell them its a damned lie for I know he never encouraged it.

“The stewardship of woman is encircled in the stewardship of man . . . Woman therefore finds her fulfillment in man as man finds his in God.” The ultimate degradation appeared in four lines of doggerel, purportedly written by a woman: “Women are doormats and have been/ The years those mats applaud—/ They keep their men from going in/ With muddy feet to God.” Turner commented, “I am afraid that this is only too true. A man needs that kind of support so that he can go back home without muddy feet.”

Several years ago at a stake conference, a visiting authority gave an excellent talk but ended with these words: “Women, be good to your husbands because in the end they are the ones who save you.”

After five children, I decided that I had had my last. When I became pregnant for the sixth time, I felt that it was too late for me, and I became very depressed. I couldn't stand the thought of being a mother again. . . . Various concerned people tried desperately to convince me not to have an abortion. . . .

Although a few of my friends listened helpfully, the entire decision-making process was, for the most part, a horrible ordeal. The abortion itself was nothing, and I've never felt bad about having it. What I do feel bad about is that at a time when I would have appreciated nurturing and support from spiritual leaders and friends, I got judgment, criticism, prejudicial advice, and rejection.

— Name Withheld

. . . When millions are spent on READER'S DIGEST ads, and money is spent to send Beverly Campbell to fight against the ERA, I wonder about my tithing . . . Why should Sonia be excommunicated because Jeff Willis is her bishop, and Teddie [Wood] isn't because Chick Bradford is hers? Why should the pain depend on where you live? . . . wouldn't it be better to spend that energy in living the gospel instead of trying so hard to stay with the church? . . . I went out into the hall at the [IWY] Salt Palace, having just been told by a woman with garment lines under her blouse that the state would be better if people like me left it. I was hurt, disillusioned, and heartsick. Gloria Perez, whom I assume is Catholic, ran toward me, threw her arms around me, and said, “Reba, I have not been able to do anything these last two days but to think how painful this must be for you.” By their fruits ye shall know them.

When Beverly Campbell walked past our ERA picket line at the LDS Women's Conference (March 14) in Bellevue, WA, she didn't look as demure as the newspaper photos showed, as she told us to “Go to Hell!” If looks could kill, I'd be writing this posthumously.


Mormon Apostle Erastus Snow preached this:

“Do the women, when they pray, remember their husbands? Do you uphold your husband before God as your lord? What!-my husband to be my lord? I ask, Can you get into the celestial kingdom without him? Have any of you been there? You will remember that you never go into the celestial kingdom (during the temple ceremony) without the aid of your husband. If you did, it was because your husband was away, and some one had to act proxy for him. No woman will get into the celestial kingdom, except her husband receives her, if she is worthy to have a husband; and if not, somebody will receive her as a servant” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p 291)

“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife... as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Latter-day Saint Messenger and Advocate, Nov. 1835

"Women are queens and priestesses but not gods. The Godhead, the 'Presidency of Heaven,' is a presidency of three male deities, similar to a stake presidency whose members each have wives who are responsible for domestic religious education but not ecclesiastical functions."

- Rodney Turner, retired BYU religion professor, Sunstone Panel Discussion, September 7, 1991.


Subject: Re: Please post chauvinism from profits
Date: Nov 07 03:16
Author: Shamdango

"[T]he man whom God calls to dictate affairs in the building of his Zion has the right to dictate about everything connected with the building up of Zion, yes even to the ribbons the women wear; and any person who denies it is ignorant." Brigham Young, February 3, 1867, JOD (Liverpool: B. Young, Jr., 1867 lithographed reprint of original edition, 1966), vol. 7, 19.


Subject: The temple endowment ceremony (in 1970) when the men covenant to obey God, and the women covenant to
Date: Nov 07 03:52
Author: forestpal

obey the priesthood/their husbands.

Maybe someone has a transcript of that. I believe the LDS changed that, when they changed the blood oaths, but I'm not sure.

Men and women are seated separately in the temple. That speaks volumes.

The temple president is called "President." His wife who works equally hard and equally long hours is called, "Matron."


Subject: Re: Please post chauvinism from profits
Date: Nov 07 04:20
Author: Shamdango

Here's another favorite:

"[a] woman's primary place is in the home, where she is to rear children and abide by the righteous counsel of her husband" (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 844).


Subject: Found a few more
Date: Nov 07 08:28
Author: byTheirLogicYouShallKnowThem

The purpose of wives:
"The idea of becoming a State in two or three years, when we have only got four or five thousand of an emigration! I do not wonder that the Latter-day Saints believe in the plurality of wives. "

Jedediah M. Grant, Counselor 1st pre JD 2:71

Women better not complain about doctrine:
"We have one doctrine in our faith that to their view is erroneous, and very bad; it is painful to think of. Shall I tell you what it is sisters? 'Oh,' says one, 'I know what you mean, my husband has two, four, or half a dozen wives.' Well, I want to tell the sisters how to free themselves from this odium as many of them consider it. This doctrine so hateful and annoying to the feelings of many, was revealed from heaven to Joseph Smith, and obedience is required to it by the Latter-day Saints."

BY JD 12:255

Women are bargaining chips:
"When England and the rest of the nations learn war no more, instead of passing a law in this or any other nation against a man having more than one wife, they will pass a law to make men do as they should in honoring the daughters of Eve and making wives of and providing for them. Will not this be a happy time? Yes, very fine. If you will produce this to-day, I'll tell you what I would be willing to do, I would be willing to give up half or two-thirds of my wives ... Do this and you are welcome to them. Would I get more wives? If I had a mind to."

BY JD 12:255

Women are a possession like any other:
"It is also according to the acts of every legislative body throughout the Union, to enjoy all that you are capable of enjoying; but you are forbidden to infringe upon the rights, property, wife, or anything in the possession of your neighbor. "

BY JD 1:358


Subject: Let's keep it going!
Date: Nov 07 08:49
Author: Shamdango

Another favorite:

"In the spirit. . . world we will go to brother Joseph. . . . He will say to us, 'Come along, my boys, we will give you a good suit of clothes. Where are your wives[?]' [Answering Joseph] 'They are back yonder; they would not follow us.' 'Never mind,' says Joseph, 'here are thousands, have all you want.'" (Heber Kimball, February 1, 1857, in JOD, vol. 4, 209.)


Subject: Reformation Hymn
Date: Nov 07 09:09
Author: Shamdango

Emphasizing that husbands 'must, be blessed with more than thee.' reads as follows:

Now, sisters, list to what I say; with trials this world is rife. You can't expect to miss them all; help husband get a wife! Now this advice I freely give, if exalted you will be, Remember that your husband must, be blessed with more than thee. Chorus: Then, oh, let us say, God bless the wife that strives, And aids her husband all she can to obtain a dozen wives. (1856 Reformation Song. Used as a Hymn in an edition of Songs of Zion. Utah Historical Quarterly, 1928, p. 58.)


Subject: On happiness and obedience
Date: Nov 07 09:19
Author: Shamdango

'Sisters, do you wish to make yourselves happy? Then what is your duty? It is for you to bear children...are you tormenting yourselves by thinking that your husbands do not love you? I would not care whether they loved a particle or not; but I would cry out, like one of old, in the joy of my heart, "I have got a man from the Lord!" "Hallelujah! I am a mother - I have borne, an image of God!" (Brigham Young, April 7, 1861, JOD, vol. 9, 37.)

And this inspired rubbish from Heber C. Kimball:

'It is the duty of a woman to be obedient to her husband, and unless she is, I would not give a damn for all her queenly right and authority, nor for her either, if she will quarrel and lie about the work of God and the principles of plurality.' (Heber C. Kimball, November 9, 1856, in JOD, vol. 4, 82; cf Deseret News, vol. 6, 291. Quoted in Jarman, 112.)

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