Subject: Worst YW/YM lessons
Date: Mar 09, 2009
Note: YW = Young Women's group in Mormonism 12-19 year olds, YM = Young Men (same ages 12-19)
Author: whoknows

What were the cruelest, most offensive, most humiliating, or just plain horrible lessons you experienced while you were in Young Men's or Young Women's?


Subject: Hmm choices, choices
Date: Mar 09 03:23
Author: Tiff

Personally, one of my favorites (sarcasm) was being publicly humiliated in front of all the YW for missing the stake youth conference.

I had four hours of play practice and ten hours of homework. I warned my leaders I wouldn't be able to make it. The Sunday after the conference, the YW leader was going around talking about the conference and how spiritual it was. She asked a few people to share their favorite experience. She got to me and said, "How's YOUR testimony?" in the most snotty, rude voice tone I've ever heard. I replied that it was fine, but none of her business.

There was also the time that the leader was talking about how, "Once you get a temple marriage, you never even THINK of divorce because it's so sacred" while staring at my sister and I, the only two from a divorced family in the ward.

There are a bunch of other ones, but those are the ones that stick out right now.


Subject: Re: Worst YW/YM lessons
Date: Mar 09 03:31
Author: Mother Who Knows

My son was the youngest in his group, and he was the littlest in size. It was the habit for Mormon families in our neighborhood to hold their children back in school a year, before starting kindergarten, to give them a developmental advantage over the other kids. These kids were a full year older than the others, and much larger. My son was highly intelligent and had skipped a grade, in another state, so he was 2 years younger than these Mormon classmates. We had barely moved into the ward, when the YM/YW decided to have a "date night" or "standards night" on a week night, the night before an important test. My son had told them he was not going because 1)he hated the idea and also because 2)he had to study for his test. They went ahead and chose a "date" for him, from the girls in the ward, and told him he was going anyway, like it or not. They were to learn table manners and etiquette. My son already knew all of that, from our own formal dinner

The phone started ringing that afternoon, relentlessly, and the boys would not leave my son alone. He finally told me what was going on, and I told him that he was too young to date, and that I was forbidding him to go. I called the leader and explained that my son was too young to date. He said it was not a real date. I said it was a school night, and my son was studying hard for an important test, and the leader said it would be only a couple of hours, and that the girl was counting on him, etc. I said my son was grounded, and would not be allowed out of the house that night. The phone rang again. A while later, my son came into the living room dressed in his suit, and he was crying, and said that they were on their way over to get him, and he would rather die than go. When the two men and several boys came to the door, they went past me, into the living room to grab my son. I said loudly and forcefully that my son was grounded here at home to study for his test, and I was not allowing them to take him anywhere. I lied that my brother was on his way over here. My son struggled free, and they left. My son and I were extremely upset--like our rights had been violated.

The next day at school, my sons older TBM classmates made fun of him, and said he was afraid of girls! They teased him about that for years, and all through high school, he had the reputation of being afraid of girls. Actually, though my son was short, he was/is extremely good looking, masculine athletic, funny, and charming, and the girls liked him. He was polite, and was a good friend to them. He just wasn't ready to date at that time. Even so, I think this TBM ugliness scarred him for life. He left the church in high school, immediately after he got his Eagle Scout award.

One of those arrogant bully classmates got a girl pregnant, she adopted the baby out to LDS Social Services, and he went on his mission a year later, as though it never happened. Another got on drugs, sobered up and went on a mission, returned from his mission, got the SP's daughter pregnant, married her, and now they're both on drugs. Another sells drugs, another "accidentally" shot his brother, and both these boys asked my son if they could date his sister. My son said over his dead body!

Perhaps on that "date night", the YW/YM should have taught the kids about birth control, and respect for the law, instead of pushing them to date too young.

And what did the leaders intruding on a school night and overriding homework, breaking past me at the door of our private home, and attempting to force my son to do something against his will, and disrespecting his mother's rule--what kind of "standards" did that demonstrate to the boys?

The Mormons are definitely screwed-up.


Subject: I always hated "standards nights" . . .
Date: Mar 09 04:19
Author: anon this time

when they would sit us all down together and explain in detail what the different moral (meaning sexual) crimes were called and what those terms meant. (Who REALLY needs to know the difference between "light" and "heavy" petting?) And they told us how we couldn't repent of those crimes on our own, but had to tell the bishop. It was horribly uncomfortable and downright embarrassing.

If it was a decent church, they'd tell us what was expected of us, set some limits or guidelines, and not emphasize the things we should NOT do. And stop requiring confessions. Shouldn't kids be learning to trust their God to forgive them, rather than having to go through an outside agent? (the bishop).

I was an obedient and straight-laced youth, but nobody's perfect, and some things happened with friends as a young kid that I didn't think were a big deal (in fact, I read in a child psychology book that it was quite NORMAL for the age). After those lectures, I agonized for probably 6-8 years about whether or not I should "confess" about things that happened when I was under 9. I wondered if they happened before baptism. If so, I was already "clean". But I never felt sure. So I waited and hoped I would stop worrying about it and get some kind of confirmation from the spirit that I was okay. But when I was between 18 and 20, I finally did confess just to make sure. Thankfully, I had a decent bishop that told me everything was okay and I finally felt absolved.

The burden of guilt and shame I carried for all those years was over something that I had mostly forgotten about before the "morality" lectures.

Now I can't even imagine the horror that would occur to a kid who was victim of sexual abuse. Because I don't remember any instruction to kids who had been involved in that way. No instructions to get help, no assurances that it wasn't THEIR fault.


Subject: After the mish...
Date: Mar 09 05:43
Author: bingoe4

I refused to go to the singles ward so I was put in the young mens. I was a co-teacher for the deacons I think????? One day the other teach taught about masturbation and sex. I was trying to tune him out when I heard a young man ask, "Why do we have such a strong desire to do these things if HF doesn't want us to do them?" I thought that was the most excellent question I had ever heard. I thought the teacher would answer something about being tested.... But NOPE. He said, "We men get such a strong sexual desire so that we will want to get married, if we didn't have this desire most of us never would." This was so wrong on so many levels, but the one that came immediately glaringly to my mind was the fact that my desire that supposedly was put there by god just made me want to have sex with any woman that would have let me. I did not want to get married, I just wanted sex. The confused look on the YM faces seemed to be indicators that they were thinking something similar.

Looking back I don't think I should have told the teacher my concerns because I was released from that calling and I actually liked it.


Subject: Keep your pants on, boys!
Date: Mar 09 07:39
Author: AxelDC

I remember when I was 13, we had a substitute teacher one Sunday in Deacon's Quorum. His son was in the class, and he was really embarrassed by the ensuing lesson.

The lesson was on morality, and he went on a long diatribe about how we should "keep our pants on!" I was pretty naive, being raised Mormon and the oldest in my family. I had barely hit puberty, so I really had little idea what he was talking about. It was a pretty harsh, explicit talk about how we shouldn't knock up the girls, with no biological explanation about what he was talking about.

Looking back, it was a very irresponsible and graphic approach to the topic. Teaching a bunch of middle school kids about the birds & the bees is fine, but you have to give it some context. Instead, we got some hellfire tirade about how we were going to knock up the young women if we weren't careful.


Subject: Re: Keep your pants on, boys!
Date: Mar 10 04:57
Author: newyorknewyork

It seems like the bulk of the most offensive lessons entailed education about chastity and all things sexual in nature. My favorite was an MIA lesson about remaining chaste. We were offered pieces of gum as the lesson began. We chomped away for several minutes before the teacher asked us to spit the gum out into a cardboard box. Then we were offered yet another piece of gum and asked whether we would rather chew the new or the old. And that, dear girls, is what happens to you when you lose your virginity too soon. Noone is going to want to chew an already used piece of gum.

This struck me as absurd, as I was just getting interested in matters sexual, had kissed a few boys and found myself liking it quite a bit. Nothing seemed to have changed all that much about me. I certainly didn't feel like a piece of chewed up gum.


Subject: A piece of chewed gum? That's silly...
Date: Mar 10 23:30
Author: p-Lo nevermo

we all know you're really a licked cupcake.


Subject: Re: Worst YW/YM lessons- the list of sinners
Date: Mar 09 09:13
Author: confused

Supposedly, when you got to the pearly gates, er veil, there would be a list of all the sinners who had morality issues (like helmet polishing) and on that list would your own name glowing brighter than anyone elses. You would be so afraid of your peers seeing it, that you'd rather slink out to the devil than be known as THE one who sinned.


Subject: this one was just uncomfortable and weird
Date: Mar 09 09:52
Author: zj

We had a male nurse come into YWs and teach us about the reproductive system and how it all works. I mean, WTF!?!? Apparently they don't think our parents are willing to teach us, which mine weren't, but the school and television did the job ok :p


Subject: Re: Worst YW/YM lessons
Date: Mar 09 10:09
Author: rk

Number 1 most offensive YW lesson was of the girl who was nearly beat to death but kept her virtue.

Second most horrible was when the branch pres. came into our combined Sunday school class (boys & girls-we were a small branch so it was all the kids in the youth program 12yrs up. Not sure how it worked in larger wards.) We had been acting up and not being very nice to our teacher and the branch pres.. ripped our butts about that then went into a lecture about masturbation. I believe I was 15 at the time and was completely embarrassed to have this lecture in mixed company. As an adult and parent I now see (thankfully) how disturbing, sick, and cruel it is for an adult male who has 'authority' over kids to YELL (let alone even talk to kids) about the evils of masturbation. I really hate the church and its twisted ways.


Subject: Re: Worst YW/YM lessons
Date: Mar 11 21:42
Author: Lid

Awwww Gosh! I remember that one!!! I always felt it was not worth it to almost die for it. Geez...
The only other one that I remember was about a girl who wanted to choose her dresses and her mother wanted to choose the dresses for her or something. I think you were supposed to be taught to go with whatever your mother wanted you to wear!?! I mean thats ok if you are 5, but after a certain age young people need to learn some independence and be given free will to wear what they want.


Subject: It's not a lesson, but saying that "theme" before every class was cultish.
Date: Mar 09 10:26
Author: Single White Female

In robot voice: "wearedaughtersofaheavenlyfatherwholovesusandwelovehim..."

I felt like I was in one of Chairman Mao's re-education camps.


Subject: They did this in our RS too
Date: Mar 09 16:04
Author: CA Girl

with some RS theme I never did learn because I refused to repeat it - creepy brainwashing technique. And I was a TBM at the time. They passed around little bookmarks to read from and everything. It was supposed to help our self-esteem but it did the opposite. We were treated like robots. Thankfully, I was put in Primary soon after they started.


Subject: Re: Worst YW/YM lessons
Date: Mar 09 13:10
Author: Hap E. Heretic

I remember that nearly every year in YM/YW, we'd have a big meeting called "standards night".

It basically consisted of leaders railing on us for an hour or two about being morally clean, and avoiding S-E-X or anything like unto it.

During one of these sessions, a woman leading the program stood up and, with wide, wild eyes, started shaking a finger at us and saying, "NO PETTING!". She was so threatening in her demeanor, it was creepy. Even as an uber-TBM kid, I thought she was really over the top.

Those things were such a drag. Everytime you'd turn around, there would be another lecture about morality.

But that wild-eyed woman really took first place when it came to worst YW/YM lessons.


Subject: Going to church leaders for help re: abuse; offering 'wine' in WoW
Date: Mar 09 13:19
Author: jenapostate

We had this whole lesson about reporting abuse (it was in the 12/13 age group - don't remember which one that is). They kept emphasizing that you need to go to priesthood leaders if you are being abused (physically/sexually). Our teacher asked us: "If you were being abused by your father, would you go to the bishop?" I said "No. Everyone here knows my Dad. He's a respected man. The leaders are his friends. I don't think they would protect me, they would take his word over mine. I would go to a teacher at school" FYI - My dad did *not* abuse me. Our teacher actually said "I can understand that. My best friend was I was 12 was being molested by her dad, the bishop. She told the first counselor and he did nothing - just told her dad. You should go to a teacher or someone you trust if something like that happens." She was dismissed as our YW teacher not long after (not sure if it was connected).

The other was a wine WoW issue. The teacher talked about the WoW and how most of us were probably curious about what alcohol tasted like. So, this once, in a 'safe' environment, she would allow us to taste it. She pulled out a bottle of wine and dixie cups and offered it to everyone (it was really grape juice). It was confusing. I said "no." Some girls said yes (one she asked to say yes). Of course, the point of the lesson was that it's *never* okay to just 'taste it.' Those girls who said yes, because they trusted her and took her at her word thinking that this was ultimately a way to adhere to the WoW, were humiliated. One started crying.


Subject: In the early eighties
Date: Mar 09 16:16
Author: Laman and Lemon

we had completed our bishopric interrogations in preparation to do baptisms for the dead in the Oakland temple. The stake did goup interviews with girls/guys divided. To us guys, the 1st couselor in the Stake Pres stood up and told us that we should never entertain the thought that we would EVER touch a woman's breasts. He said he was married and he NEVER touched his wifes breasts. They were too sacred for something carnal like that.

Funny thing is, he had a daughter that was way hot!! Maybe they did it with her garmie tops on??? Artificial insemination??

... poor woman. What a mindf**k. No joke.


Subject: here's one..........You all won't believe this.......
Date: Mar 09 17:26
Author: 2254

When one masturbates, he/she may think they are all alone. Well they're not. Who's with them? Not JC or the HG, no way would they be next to someone masturbating. Those two were gone the second the person thought about doing it.

So who's with them? Satan himself. He loves it when people commit this act. In fact, (I KID YOU ALL NOT) Satan is probably helping him/her do it!

So when we masturbate, we're actually being molested by Satan. Every seen Rosemary's Baby!


Subject: Re: Worst YW/YM lessons
Date: Mar 09 17:41
Author: jonjon

When I was a deacon, I had a teacher actually tell us that if we masturbated (he probably called it self abuse of something), eventually "normal" fantasies wouldn't suffice and we would start having homosexual fantasies. For several years, I really believed that MB would make you gay.


Subject: Re: Worst YW/YM lessons
Date: Mar 09 19:19
Author: My Knees Are Great

That's most likely thanks to Spencer W. Kimball. [previous Mormon prophet - 1970s]

"Sometimes masturbation is the introduction to the more serious sins of exhibitionism and the gross sin of homosexuality. We would avoid mentioning these unholy terms and these reprehensible practices were it not for the fact that we have a responsibility to the youth of Zion that they be not deceived by those who would call bad good, and black white."

Also see "The Miracle of Forgiveness" otherwise known as "You are a terrible person, see how terrible you have been?"

- My Knees are Great

jonjon wrote:
> When I was a deacon, I had a teacher actually tell us that if we masturbated (he probably called it self abuse of something), eventually "normal" fantasies wouldn't suffice and we would start having homosexual fantasies. For several years, I really believed that MB would make you gay.


Subject: It's true!
Date: Mar 11 21:08
Author: AxelDC

ZOMG! I masturbated as a teenager and now I'm gay.

I should have listened!


Subject: I keep reading about men rushing into the homes of single moms
Date: Mar 09 21:27
Author: mp

If this had happened in any wards where I've lived, some penishood holders would be in jail for trespassing. Forcible entry isn't smiled upon in the southern US.

I also can't imagine one of my former bishops, who was a SWAT team member, endorsing such behavior.


Subject: Re: Worst YW/YM lessons this one sucked.
Date: Mar 10 08:12
Author: Chief Luma

I was in Unv. Utah student ward, and going to school and sundays at church on campus, tons of students in one ward it was packed, I even played with some basketball players on the Utah's team during off season, fun fun in the ward building.

The most most offensive, most humiliating, was a combined lesson in sunday school, HOLLY ***** (sorry), well they had the girls on one side and the guys on the other listening to this crap, each speaker was a SP or 1st or 2nd, but they went over ever detailed on the laws of chastity, being clean shit, no petting, no hugging in the church building, LOL and no masturbation, pause, the SP looked up from the his book and notes and restated to the 1st counsler , NO PORN< NO MASTURBATION AT ALL< and went on about how bad it is. for like 10 mins. Wow I was shocked, everybody was put on the spot, I just felt liked crap after....when it was done me and g/f, who was there was speechless after the drive home to her house.... it was very offensive.


Subject: On YW and their precious virginity
Date: Mar 10 23:18
Author: Debra

It was the early 1990's, and the "better come home in a pine box than virginity-less" talks were making the rounds in a serious way again. In YW we were subjected to a number of lessons involving the dreaded loss of virginity:

A flower, picked bare, petal by petal. See how a beautiful flower is ruined when it gives pieces of itself away to boys? So you will be ruined if you give away your petals. (Wow, that's sort of naught-ily Freudian).

A piece of buttered toast (yum!)--YW leader LICKS THE BUTTER OFF OF IT then offers it to the girls. Do YOU want to eat toast that someone has licked the butter off of? Do you want to BE the toast that has been licked? Heavens, no. Stay delicious. Stay unlicked.

Beautiful white apron, pure and unsullied, suddenly and viciously ATTACKED by ketchup by YW leader. Poor ruined apron. Nobody wants a dirty, sullied apron, and nobody wants a dirty, sullied girl.

I've learned in my exmo researchings that these lessons have been taught throughout the church to the YW at different times. I've always found it interesting that YM lessons involved their own personal manipulation of their little factories and DID NOT involve their contribution to the ruin of girls by ketchuping and petal-ripping and toast licking.

Grrr. No wonder LDS women are so totally screwed up about sexuality.



Subject: This reminds me of someone who used to post here.
Date: Mar 10 23:25
Author: JBug

I think her name was Kim??? She was terrific and a great writer. She had a story about being lectured in YW about "licked cupcakes" and that post was quite popular if I recall.


Subject: YW lessons
Date: Mar 10 23:44
Author: Debra

I think there were a lot of these types of lessons. I heard about the licked toast lesson before I experienced it and remember thinking someone had made it up. The whole idea was taking something beautiful or yummy and defiling it horribly :)

I'm not Kim, I've always been Debra :)


Subject: I remember several of these lessons...
Date: Mar 11 02:09
Author: Itzpapalotl

I always found it so hypocritical that the YW received these lessons, but never the YM. I now realize they received the anti-masturbation lessons which is just as embarrassing and sexually destructive. I wonder how many people in the Morg have sexual problems? Anyone willing to talk about sexual issues one had? I know I did for several years.


Subject: Re: On YW and their precious virginity
Date: Mar 11 13:03
Author: Deborah

Oh boy did you just bring back memories. And not good ones. I still haven't gotten over alot of husband of couse is HATING that I was raised lds. LOL!


Subject: If you don't butter your toast, does that mean you're naked? n/t


Subject: KimberlyAnn's Licked Cupcakes! [link]
Date: Mar 11 12:01
Author: flattopSF

Scroll down to the bottom for the story of the licked cupcakes.

I miss KA!


Subject: Re: KimberlyAnn's Licked Cupcakes! [link]
Date: Mar 11 12:09
Author: 6 iron

I wondering if using these metaphors about licking is the best way to get this message out. You could also use peeled bananas, bitten cherries, handled peaches, peeled onions etc...


Subject: It was KimberlyAnn who wrote about licked cupcakes (is it archived?)
Date: Mar 11 12:10
Author: cl2

For "Itz"--the reason we were given the chastity lessons is because it was the girl's responsibility to keep the guys from doing anything. They weren't able to control their sexual desires--we were supposed to.

I sent the talk about the licked toast or licked bread to my nonmember boyfriend (from 30 years ago and now)--I sent it to him about 2 years ago. He read it while at work. He burst out laughing. He said he couldn't help himself.


Subject: Oh, wow...
Date: Mar 11 13:14
Author: Deenie, the dreaded single adult

Let's see...
~The MIA Maid lesson on dating, where we were told that it was better to sit for hours in a stalled car, rather than tell your date that you knew what was wrong (if he didn't), because "you should never let a guy think you know more than he does."


~The Laurel class lesson on the evils of the ERA, in which they told us that we would be drafted when we turned 18; all restrooms and locker rooms (like community pool lockers, etc.) would be unisex; children would be forcefully removed from their homes and sent to state-run preschools every day, while women would be required to work out of the home.

Imagine my shock and surprise when I read the actual wording of the proposed amendment...not to mention my further shock and surprise when I shared my new-found info (the actual wording)with the Laurel class. The 'teacher' held me back from refreshments to tell me that I'd better get my attitude straight, or I wouldn't be welcome here (I was a teenage "investigator").
Geez, why didn't I get a clue and RUN? (I really know the answer to that. I didn't run because I was hanging out with a really nice, fun group of teens, and I was happy to have the friendships. There weren't so many of "my type" at my high shcool, so I swallowed the ERA thing, and went to get my brownie and lemonade with my friends.)


"The Parable of the White Hankie"
"See this hankie? It's pure and clean and white. Let's rub it into this pan of mud... Oh, what a mess; I'll take it home and wash it..."
This goes on for several consecutive weeks. The hankie looks white to us, when it is shown every Tuesday night.

At the end of a month or so, the much-muddied-and-washed hankie is taken out once more, and held side-by-side with a brand-new, never-muddied hankie--and behold! The washed hankie is actually a dingy grayish color, compared to the unused one!!

Moral of the story: Keep yourself pure and clean, like this unused hankie; repentance, apparently, only makes you look "kinda clean" if no one compares you to an unused, 'never-repented' girl.
Bonus: We all were given brand-new, white, lace-edged hankies with an attached card, reminding us to keep ourselves pure and clean, and that we could use the hankies on our wedding day.

Funny thing--I actually came across that hankie the other day, going through some old boxes of things in my basement. No kidding!



Subject: I remember all that ERA stuff, Deenie. . .
Date: Mar 11 14:19
Author: JoAnn

We had gone camping on Orcas Island up in the San Juan Islands near Washington. The husband worked with mine and until that topic came up, I thought they were nice folks. First Mormons I ever met.

Then Mrs. Molly started rattling off all the stuff you just mentioned - about drafting women in the military and unisex restroom and all that. I was stunned and said, "But that's not what the provision says AT ALL! Have you READ it??"

The remainder of that weekend didn't go nearly as well.


Subject: Seminary lessons...
Date: Mar 11 18:40
Author: k77

These were doozies:

It is a "sexual sin" to french kiss, even AFTER marriage, because french kissing is an oral version of sex and if you can have actual sex after marriage- its pointless to french kiss.

Using birth control is a sin, and the children you prevent from coming to earth will be born to... single teenage mothers (gasp!)

One of the seminary teachers also proudly stated that he had NEVER seen his wife naked


Subject: NEVER seen his wife naked?????
Date: Mar 11 20:19
Author: JBug

OMG, I bet their sex [??] life was fun! [dripping with sarcasm] But I bet they only did it for "procreation" anyway, so it hardly mattered.


Subject: If this woman's hubby never saw her naked, I really hope she found someone else who did...n/t


Subject: Re: Worst YW/YM lessons
Date: Mar 11 20:46
Author: Davey the Damned

All of this "standards night" talk is bringing back painful memories of the enormous guilt I felt as I attended one such event with my girlfriend. We were both TBM and we were in a hot and heavy sexual relationship at the time. Needless to say, we were devastated and went to see the bishop soon thereafter.


Subject: Looks like the worst ones were mostly filled with sexual shame.
Date: Mar 11 20:57
Author: Whoknows

The good news is that all of us are proof that the shame conditioning of the Momo church can be overcome. No matter how much they've hurt you, you can walk away from them! (Though it may take many years of therapy to deal with all the pain.)

Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church

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