|Subject:||TBMs [Mormons] Expect Us To Fail|
|Date:||Apr 09 10:19|
|note||TBM = common term referring to true believing Mormon, LDS = Mormon Church|
|Since I left the Church, LDS friends always begin
conversations with, "How are you and your family doing?"
My response? "We're doing very well, thanks." And I really mean it. We're doing better than we've ever done. We're happier than we've ever been. And honestly, our spiritual lives actually feel enhanced now that we're not bound by the unintelligible doctrines of the LDS Church.
After hearing my response, there's a brief moment of silence, followed by some variation of, "Well, if there's anything I can do for you, please let me know."
I've come to realize that I and my whole family are all expected to fail. In the faithful LDS mindset, some apocalyptic event is going to befall us in the very near future. They don't believe anyone could possibly be happy after leaving the Church. They probably think that my current happy life is just some sort of calm before a devastating storm. Or they think I am lying.
The fact is, most people who choose to leave the Church are happier outside it. And those I know who have chosen to remain spiritual or religious, feel much closer to God than they did in the LDS Church.
The duty of a cult is to minimize the number of doors to the outside, make sure those doors are always shut, and then to create stories about horrible monsters living just outside those doors. Then it's their duty to teach cult members that anyone who has walked out the doors has been eaten by those monsters. The LDS Church is no different.
That's why faithful LDS people don't see the Church for what it is, because if the Church is not what it says it is, then all that's left are the monsters outside. It's easier, and far less scary, to believe the LDS Church is everything it says it is.
I am never surprised by the bitterness my faithful LDS family members show when I am around and spirituality or religion is discussed; I represent everything they've ever been taught to fear. I've made the same covenants, served a mission, married a returned sister missionary, sealed in the temple, served in high callings, and have been the poster child of "righteous" LDS living until the moment I walked out the door of a chapel as a member for the last time.
My little brother explained it to me this way in an angry, ranting e-mail, "You were my rock. You were the one that would never fall away. You were faithful like Joseph. You were the most Christ like person I knew." Every good thing I ever was to my brother is now referred to in the past tense. In his mind and the minds of my family members, I no longer have any redeeming qualities.
Things have calmed down a bit with my family. They don't talk about Church around me or my wife. If I attempt to give them perspectives on life situations, they blow me off and change the subject.
But they always ask the same question, with a hint of pity; "How are you guys doing?" To which I answer, "We're doing really well." And because they expect me to fail, and probably even hope I fail, they hang their heads a little, and change the subject.
Failure for me and my family is the only option they are willing to accept.
|Subject:||My wife says this to me|
|Date:||Apr 09 10:46|
|I've worked hard to start two companies over the last
18 years and have been rewarded with success in both. A few years after I
told my wife of my disbelief, I sold the first company and started the
During the year of ramp up with the new company, I made little to no money but had done well with the first. But during that year, she took every opportunity to doubt, murmur and complain that if I were paying tithing, I would not be "struggling". Two times during that year, she said that I would fail because the Lord would humble me.
It's been 5 years since then. I do very well. It fkn kills her! Of course, the cult has an answer for people like me and you...we would be doing BETTER if we were tithe payers. Look at Mitt Romney!
|Subject:||I hear ya!|
|Date:||Apr 09 13:14|
|HB, I'm where you were...
in the start up stages and struggling to get my company moving.
Of course, my whole TBM family thinks this means I'm suffering due to being an exmo.
I just hope I can get it moving along so they can get a clue, that it isn't about religion but timing and circumstances!
|Subject:||Re: TBMs Expect Us To Fail|
|Date:||Apr 09 10:56|
|Author:||anon for today|
|While TBM, I suffered extremely bad depression. When I left, people expected me to go completely nuts and live under a bridge. Instead I am fully recovered and have been off all meds for years. Even so, my TBM friends and family do that thing you mention where they ask how you are and then don't believe you when you say you're doing well. Oh well, its a small enough price for my peace of mind.|
|Subject:||Same here. They would ask my friends.......|
|Date:||Apr 09 11:24|
|How's his work? Then they would look puzzled when they heard that I was doing better than just surviving.|
|Subject:||Good post. I agree completely.|
|Date:||Apr 09 12:32|
|I remember my own thoughts as a TBM that no one could
be truly happy outside of the church. Now I realize there are a lot of happy
people outside of the church, and that I am significantly happier outside of
There is definitely a double standard. If a family outside of the church has problems, it is because they have not accepted the gospel. If a family within the church has problems, it means that God is preparing them for something great.
|Date:||Apr 09 12:41|
|It is hard to feel loved by a family that treats me this way. I know it's not really their fault and that mormonism is to blame, but it's very annoying and makes me pull away from interactions with them. I have a hard time being around people who are expecting (and yes even hoping for) me to fail. They are looking for an opportunity. A teaching moment. The return of the prodigal and other such nonsense. Annoying!|
|Subject:||Re: Same here|
|Date:||Apr 09 13:20|
|You hit the nail on the head here...
They look down on us, and often directly put us down or misjudge us with their skewed view of society... and then wonder why we have a hard time associating with them.
|Subject:||Re: TBMs Expect Us To Fail|
|Date:||Apr 09 12:53|
|Author:||transplant in texas|
|unfortunately they need us to fail for their own validation that while average Sister Molly Mormon sits at home with 5 kids at the ripe old age of 25 (& she's pregnant again) while hubby Peter Priesthood works two dead end jobs & is finishing up his Bachelors degree...their lives are sucking voids of misery & they need to feel better about their so called "blessings"|
|Subject:||Not only do they expect us to fail, they want us to fail nt|
|Subject:||I was going to say the same thing. To quote KB: "they expect me to fail, and probably even hope I f|
|Date:||Apr 09 18:29|
|Author:||Mother Who Knows|
|That is the underlying enmity I feel when I am around
Mormons. This is not my imagination! They do not want me to be happy and
successful. Therefore, they are not on my side. It took me several years to
overcome my denial of this, as they labeled me as "offended."
I still feel it. I see it on their faces. I hear it in their voices, when they say in that condescending tone, "How AAAAARRRRRRE you DOOing," like it is a rhetorical question. They already know their own answer, no matter what you tell them.
|Subject:||You're exactly right - they expect and hope for us to hurt now.|
|Date:||Apr 09 13:06|
|Which some of us do, and sometimes a lot, as we heal
from everything the morg did to us.
But then the pain stops. We're healed and feeling better than we've felt in a long time, maybe better than we've felt in our whole lives!
... and the mormons can't stand it.
|Subject:||Agreed...and you are also not allowed to present your side|
|Date:||Apr 09 13:13|
|Author:||charles, buddhist punk|
|Your side of the story will be dismissed, diminished,
minimized, scoffed at, and criticized. Nothing is valid with TBMs,
especially family members. You will be surprised at the intensity of
rudeness they think they can hurl at you because you left the cult. They
think you rightly deserve it. They also think it is a form of "righteous
rebuking". A family member of mine thought it was appropriate to add cuss
words to her rebuking. LOL!
When they calm down, like you mentioned in your post and like some in my family have, they don't regret or apologize for their behavior. Like I said, they think you deserve it. Some will never admit they are embarassed or ashamed of it and will communicate through 3rd parties. Others will simply resume communicating like nothing ever happened. They don't even realize they have crossed boundaries.
This is the very thing Richard Dawkins talks about when he says we must be "militant atheists" (although you may or may not be atheist/agnostic).
To compare: Mormons and Christians have been so inured in the idea that their beliefs are beyond criticism, investigation, or reproach, and that it deserves wholesale rights and respect, while they give none to the unbeliever. They believe it is their "duty" to go all ballistic on you and that you should take it like a man. But start a rational discussion with them about how their beliefs are baseless, unscientific and simply unfounded and they cry persecution.
Or they raise loads of money and persecute some helpless minority like homosexuals, then they claim a moral victory.
|Subject:||Re: TBMs Expect Us To Fail - that's probably true for many. The interesting|
|Date:||Apr 09 13:18|
|result is that when an expectation is not met, they
are unhappy, not the other way around.
Sometimes I think the most angry people are the Mormons who cannot accept that it's OK to leave the LDS Church. Some tend to be more angry that those in the anger phase of leaving the church.
Interesting, isn't it!
|Subject:||Let's all take a moment to recognize how RIDICULOUS this expectation is.|
|Date:||Apr 09 13:27|
|Think for a second about the people you would
stereotypically name as success stories; or better yet, people who you
personally think have come close to living the good life.
What percentage of those people are Mormon?
|Subject:||It was that attitude from my TBM relatives that made my TBM spouse leave LDS Inc|
|Date:||Apr 09 14:16|
|My Mo grandparents had a ton of TBM kids ( > 10 ). Two
of them eventually left the fold. One died of cancer at 40, the other of
heart problems at 60. Everybody else lived to a ripe old age. A good chunk
of 'em are still alive.
When I decided to cut my losses with Mo-ism, I got repeatedly lambasted with this "the Lard is going to have to humble you, and you'll end up like ..." harangue.
My then spousal unit finally blew a gasket and retorted with "it looks like you are hoping for something horrible to happen. That's disgusting".
That family fight was a prize-winning Kodak Moment. I still remember it fondly. There have been harangues since then, but they have been at low volume, instead of tearful, shrieking ones, and they have been rare.
I consider that a marked improvement. :)
Spouse looked at how I behaved and at how they behaved, and decided they were the crazy ones.
The cliche about giving them enough rope to hang themselves comes to mind.
|Subject:||You are ABSOLUTELY right. But why should I care what they expect of me? n/t|
|Subject:||Amen, brother. I had a small win from a work lottery syndicate I'd forgotten I was in|
|Date:||Apr 09 15:15|
|not a huge sum, just a nice figure to receive which
came in handy for some things I wanted to do to my house.
My family told me it was Satan, trying to convince me I'd be better off outside TSCC.
They weren't pleased when I suggested maybe God wanted to convince me I'd be better etc etc
Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church www.exmormon.org