Subject: An MTC experience (swearage)
Date: Jul 23 00:54
Author: Dark Lord
Admin Note MTC is the Mormon Church's "Missionary Training Center" in Provo Utah.

This is just one basic story of the misery the cult induces in people through the slave labor camps they call "missions."

I went into the MTC in April of 1999. It was remarkably more tolerable than I expected, but that may only be because I was half expecting to fail miserably.

Maybe someone can help me remember what they called the class/groups (was it a district?). I am not sure how representative of the overall mission field my little group was, but several of us in the class were older. My companion was 25, and I was 23. There may have been 8 of us, and I think we were all headed for the same mission. I have a hard time remembering names and faces, so I can't be sure anymore.

Anyway, my companion, Elder K, was really a pretty decent sort of guy. He was from Canada, and he and I had the opportunity to "serve" together later about half way through the mission again. I'm probably not the easiest person to understand, but I hope he would agree that he and I got along pretty decently.

I don't know when it stared or if they're still doing it, but the MTC had a call center in operation to handle all those "free video" commercials the cult put out. The missionaries were made to work in there regularly.

Basically, we would receive inbound calls, and also make outbound calls. Let me tell you that the inbound calls were a hell of a lot less stressful than the outbound ones. The inbound calls were when people saw a commercial and called us up and we would follow the script on the software in the terminals before us to handle the processing of address information, and try to con the poor suckers into accepting a missionary visit. Often they were members.

The outbound calls were largely follow up calls to people who had ordered the videos. I don't know what the schedule was, but the computer system would auto-dial them after perhaps a week or a month. Then we would have to again follow the script on the screen and try to push these people who fell for the "no obligation" free item into accepting the missionaries (even though after their first call they'd said they didn't want to). If I remember correctly, there were 2 or 3 repeats on this harassment.

For the new MTC arrival, this was not a pleasant experience. Most of these people were pissed off that we were calling them at home. And here we were, trying to both follow a script and "use the Spirit" to push these poor suckers into accepting the missionaries into their homes.

The "teachers" who ran the call center were RMs [returned missionaries] and they would plug in and listen to our calls to make sure we pushed hard enough. If we gave up too easily, they would chastise us for being bad servants of God. This added to the stress of the whole thing fairly dramatically. They had computer tracking to make sure we weren't offline too long, and so that they could track the statistics of how many calls we took, how long each call lasted, etc. It was nothing more than slave labor (remember, we PAID to serve this f*cking mission).

I hated it. So did my companion, Elder K.

He, like me, was terribly uncomfortable calling up strangers and berating them into accepting missionaries. At one point, a few days into this experience, he was clearly getting flustered, and the task masters simply told him he wasn't doing a good enough job. Elder K got a little emotional and stood up and walked out of the room. He wasn't angry, he was totally broken. He (like all of us) believed that this was God's church, and yet his brain was screaming at him not to do this thing they were making us do.

I was confused for about a minute, wondering if I was supposed to obey the mission rule to never leave my companion alone, or to obey the mission rule and work the phone. I didn't know what was "right" so I decided to ignore the mission and go talk to my friend.

He had gone out and sat down on the stairs. Remember, this is a man of 25 years old. He knew better, and he was a shy type of guy that wasn't open to calling strangers on the phone to push them into accepting TSSC. He was doing it because the cult conned him into believing a mission was the service of the Lord. He was clearly shaken up, and was ready to go home, even though it would mean his family would look down on him (a failed mission is a major lifetime failure in the cult). It affected him that much.

I sat down with him and told him what I thought of the call center idea, which was basically that it was a crock of shit. I really felt for him, and was pretty much in complete agreement with his feelings. I was even a little surprised he'd walked out before I had. It made me seem like the strong one, but realistically, I was near the breaking point myself.

We bitched about it for a little while, and eventually went back inside, resolved to just not take the work as seriously from then on. There is not much else to the story, except that we both resolved to shirk the thumb of the cult just a certain amount. We would both take breaks from that crap on our schedule, and the "teachers" didn't say a hell of a lot more to us. I was pretty good at telling people to fuck off, even in a place where I had to do it with one fewer swear words. They left us alone because we weren't 19 and had lost that part of the control-mechanism that made us afraid of the threat of being sent home and the condemnation of God.

We survived to fight another day.

Like I said, we both served together again in Boise, about a year later. And, he and I both got sent home together for another mission "crime" we committed a year after that. (Honorably in both cases, though it was supposed to be dishonorably at the time.) But that's another story.

I haven't talked to Elder K since we left, but I hope he's doing well, and while unlikely, I hope he's out of the cult.

Let me say, for all posterity: F*ck the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That about sums up how I feel about how they treat people. That cabal is no friend to anyone.


Subject: RM jobs
Date: Jul 23 01:15
Author: persephene

There is a company in Utah county called "RM Jobs". It is an human resources company that finds jobs for RM's. They are nearly all sales jobs!


Subject: Re: RM jobs
Date: Jul 23 02:32
Author: Fedelm

I'm not surprised that many RM's go into sales when they get done with their missions, as they had 2 years of unpaid training.


Subject: Re: An MTC experience (swearage)
Date: Jul 23 03:01
Author: MiMi

This is exactly the kind of stuff I want to hear, so keep it coming!
We've talked before, so you know I'm learning this exmo mind-set right now. A work in process.
I always knew there were serious problems with doctrine, but my thought was that they are family oriented and good to each other and could be a great community (at least in the wards I've been to).
So, hearing the person-to-person stuff is exactly what I need to rebuild my view of the church. Then I can say "I am so glad I didn't raise my kids in TSCC because my son would be sent home in the first week." He would never put on a suit or tie in the first place!


Subject: Yeah, that brings back memories.
Date: Jul 23 03:32
Author: Buliwyf

I was in the MTC the same year as you, and I remember that hot and hellish call-center. One day, I stormed out, too, after I yelled at one of the instructors. I was talking to another missionary, and the instructor pulled my chair away with me sitting in it, like I was some grade schooler. I jumped out of the chair and told him never to treat me like that again...I was PISSED!!

I guess it's not too supprising that I got sent home from the mish early, and just got exed the other day...


Subject: I wish I would have got up and and ran.
Date: Jul 23 03:38
Author: The guy who got screwed

And kept going. After I told the mp to F- Off.


Subject: This story just brings all of the many layers of shit we endured as cult salesmen......
Date: Jul 23 04:13
Author: Chad Spjut

I slaved in the Dusseldorf Germany mission in 91-93, and while I was excited to go to Germany, there were so many moments through the whole thing which caused me to pause and rethink the mission experience and Mormonism in general.

I went through long periods of just trying to enjoy myself in Germany simply because I could not cope with the absurdities and nonsense of it all. Endless tracting and well educated Germans proved to be key in helping me start my path out of the Mormonism, even though it took 13 more years to escape the mindfuck and accept reality.

I had the image required to stay below the radar, yet inside I hated so much of my time there slaving for the cult. Horrendous guilt, depression, the fear of an angry god and the stupidity of Mormon leadership/sales practices caused that mental lash to never quit, yet somehow I managed to plug through it all and deal with it the best I could.

And then you come home, put on a smile and the true deception begins. Lying to yourself that it really was not that bad and that you really did some "good" out there.

F*ck 'em. The cult deserves to end, and end now.


Subject: Germany-Munich
Date: Jul 23 10:42
Author: Heidi GWOTR

I hear ya man! I AM SO GLAD I WENT ON A MISSION!!! The German people ROCK!!! Two individuals stand out in my mind. One was a man we were teaching, and on the second lesson he asked "You ladies are so intelligent, how do you deal with being treated as 2nd class people?" We gave him the spiel about "different but equal". And, he looked at us both and shook his head. He replied, "One day, I hope you'll see what they're doing to you." I can't remember his name, but I praise it every day. His reply haunted me until I left. His reply was the toe-in-the-door for me. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, whatever your name is.


Subject: There's nothing like a discussion with a German......
Date: Jul 23 13:01
Author: Chad Spjut

as the old saying goes, "You can always tell a German, but you can't tell them much." I too loved Germany and the Germans, es ist wirklich mein zweites Heimat geworden!

Those gespraeche were always full of information and logical refutations of the nonsense we were peddling. It just shows how ignorant we were regarding the grand opportunity we had to see things as they are, not as we hoped them to be.

Once, we were invited to a high school class to teach about Mormonism. Little did we know, but the teacher had prepped the class with the history of Smith, including his many problems with the law. When we finished with our sales presentation, the little buggers let us have it with all barrels firing. When we would offer our reply, they would howl in laughter at the absurdity of our "church approved" replies. I was so embarrassed because I knew they were right, we were just fools in suits.


Subject: I ran into some mishies in Berlin a few years back. . .
Date: Jul 24 01:55
Author: JoAnn

Possibly because I was alone and looked lost at an U-bahn station, I got targeted by a pair of mishies. One of them started talking to me in what sounded like beginning high-school German. I replied, in German, "Sorry, I don't speak German." (That's pretty much true.)

Then the guy said, in English, "Oh - are you American?" I admitted that I was, and he asked me what I knew about the Mormon church. I said "More than I ever wanted to. But it's OK. I resigned a few years ago." Their jaws dropped. Then I added cheerfully, "Have a nice day, guys!" and headed toward my next train.

What a horrible way to have to spend time - preying on strangers in a foreign country!


Subject: Amen, amen, and amen to that brother.....
Date: Jul 23 08:22
Author: Cali Sally

I was older when I went to the MTC and mission so I got less garbage hurled at me also BUT it was still no picnic. A couple of times when I was out of the MTC I told THEM what I would be doing and not doing. Nobody said anything (to my face) but I later heard that the Mission President had made a few comments behind my back. If I'd been sent home there would be zero consequences so I could have cared less. I stayed anyway. Dumb, dumb, dumb.


Subject: I was going to say...
Date: Jul 23 10:36
Author: 2thdoc

I was going to say, "thank goodness they didn't have any sort of call center like that when I was in the MTC." But, on second thought, if they had that sort of crap going on back in 1981 it might have pushed me out faster and I might not have wasted my next 28 years on the cult. The MTC was such a horrible experience for me as it was, there was no way I would have stayed if I had to also be a phone solicitor.


Subject: Sheesh. Were you working for the morg or a nasty, frauding, telemarketing sweatshop??
Date: Jul 23 11:01
Author: Tiphanie

They are bunch of bullying goons! >:-(


Subject: Shows how the MTC does not care about mishie's individual talents or needs.
Date: Jul 23 11:17
Author: Cheryl

Wouldn't it make more sense to assign outgoing more socially assertive mishies to do that work? Then assign other more appropriate tasks to the sensitive less aggressive mishies?

It's also very rude to call anyone who has said no and requested no more phone calls. That's what "harassment" is, making a series of unwanted contact with anyone who wants none.


Subject: Good story, Dark Lord. But now I'm terribly curious about your other story.
Date: Jul 23 12:56
Author: apostate

Don't hold out on us!


Subject: Oh my god, you were PAYING to be a telemarketer! Yikes, that sucks. :( n/t


Subject: OMG and WTF
Date: Jul 23 13:32
Author: duffy

I'm stunned that they were running a telemarketing call center out of the MTC. I don't know whether to be glad that it wasn't started until after my 2 months there we long over, or wish it had been there when I arrived - as it would certainly have driven me away the first day and saved me a lot of time down the road.



Subject: Re: An MTC experience (swearage)
Date: Jul 23 16:30
Author: pmackie

When I was TBM I persuaded my dearest friend to phone for a copy of the video,she was assured by me (as I had been assured by the morg) that there would be no follow up or phone call etc;to my great dissapointment 3 weeks later her hubby got a follow up call, he was very angry (and had every right to be) luckily our friendship survived and is still strong today, if I had lost this dear friend my life would be so dull.


Subject: Thanks for sharing this.
Date: Jul 24 02:18
Author: Benjiman Luther

It's sometimes not until much later that you realize how weird certain things are, once the cult programming is undone.

These are exactly the kind of stories I like to hear.


Subject: Stupidity is always its own reward .....
Date: Jul 24 02:33
Author: around

and giving up time in the prime of your life to sell MORmONISM for the shameless Blood sucking elite of MORmONISM is definitely stupid.
Good luck on life without THE parasites!



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