Subject: The church's growing Internet power
Date: Jul 30, 2010
Author: Richard Packham

This information is from a post on a Mormon e-mail list:
The Church has caught the vision and it's only a matter of time before more robust resources are available.

Intellectual Reserve, Inc. [part of the Mormon Church] owns over 900 domains and the Church is making tremendous progress in user-centered design.

Web-based crowdsourcing indexing projects at FamilySearch and application development projects at LDSTech, with the location of every member household within unit boundaries including downloadable GPS coordinates, the Missionary Online Recommendation System, Internet Mission Office System (iMOS) integration with, and country specific versions of are a few examples.

The Church is using social media outlets like YouTube, Twitter, and book marking integration. The Church Directory of General Authorities and Officers is also online and Construction procedures for Temples and other building projects have been online for over a decade.

The Church History Library Catalog is projected to be online in about two years.

Subject: Re: The church's growing Internet power
Date: Jul 30 18:37
Author: AxelDC

The Internet has killed off the LDS Church just like the printing press killed the Catholic Church. Sure, both are still around, but nothing like they were before the truth got out about them.

The Internet has been around for 15 years now, and the LDS Church is just barely starting to use it. It's far too easy to discover the truth about LDS, Inc. now because of it. Before the Internet, you had to hope your local library had some books on the LDS Church that were reasonably critical. Now and always come up on the first page of a Google search on "Mormon".


Subject: Why do they need GPS coordinates for EVERY person in each ward boundary anyways? nt


Subject: The 2057 Reformation Bicentennial...repent!- They can see your house online... nt


Subject: Why do they need GPS...My question exactly.
Date: Jul 31 11:49
Author: Unindoctrinated

The idea of an organization with a cult mentality having the technology to track/stalk every member trying to hide who hasn't resigned yet is not comforting. And, the ability to see INTO houses? Let's not even go there.

I've often wondered what the upper echelon of the church would do to civil and constitutional rights and liberties if given any real political power and license. Not a pretty thought.

The good news, of course, is that technology is truly the two-edged sword for them, and the easy access to information for members and the public could cut them deep.


Subject: so they can see if you're sun-bathing au naturael!
Date: Jul 31 13:12
Author: Guy Noir, Private Eye

via satellite, Of Course!

What's That !? Your wife has a blemish on her Left breast?
you have a spot on your willy?

Peter's Pounding Pamela when parents are gone?


Subject: So the Mormons are now going to use the "evil internet" even more....
Date: Jul 30 19:09
Author: Morgbot Not

The old "if you can't beat them, join them" philosophy? But if Mormons go online more, aren't they more apt to research outside the set parameters? Aren't they more likely to visit "anti" sites?

Of course, the whole GPS thing is just creeply...

Oveall, though, this should be interesting...


Subject: We moved 900 miles away and the church found us within a week...
Date: Jul 30 19:46
Author: Laman and Lemon

My wife had sent in her resignation. The freaking cult found us in our new city and sent her Dodge letter here. Really freaky. I have commented before that the cult mails you something before your first water, power, trash or whatever bill.

It happened again.

Their information services are frightening..


Subject: I didn't move that far, still lost them though.
Date: Jul 31 04:07
Author: hexalm

It helps that I've moved 3 times since I last got mail from them (about 3 years ago).

They didn't transfer me until I sent my resignation (including my current address) and it was bounced back to the local bishop.


Subject: I think we brush this stuff off too easily.
Date: Jul 30 20:28
Author: Heresy

I've noticed a growing number of sites come up on searches for various LDS questions - and most of those are pro-LDS or LDS owned. Sometimes it takes persistence and previous knowledge to know which is which.

They are quite capable of jamming search engines to the point that good exmo sites just disappear. All they have to do is hire or subcontract the right people.

I think we are going to see the decline of the golden exmo internet era pretty soon.

Like JS, current leaders aren't stupid and we shouldn't underestimate them.


Subject: Maybe not...
Date: Jul 30 20:59
Author: dp

Sure, they might be able to outrank small enclaves of serious ex-mo literature, but there's no way they can keep up w/internet porn.

Heresy wrote:
> They are quite capable of jamming search engines...

> I think we are going to see the decline of the golden exmo internet era pretty soon....


Subject: Its a little too late for them, the whole world is already informed & wary of mormons n/t


Subject: True, but most people aren't stupid either...
Date: Jul 31 08:29
Author: Zeno Lorea

People tend to be a tad skeptical of anyone who demands they spend 10% of their income as protection money.

You can fool some of the people all of the time... And that is the niche that all cults market to. The others will never convert.


Subject: Re: I think we brush this stuff off too easily.
Date: Aug 01 07:19
Author: AxelDC

If LDS leaders are so smart:

1) Why did it take them 15 years to realize the Internet was killing them?

2) Why did they throw $8 billion down the tube on their downtown Mall?

3) Why are they going down the same path on gay rights they failed them on polygamy, black civil rights and the ERA?

4) If they are so clever, why did their growth rate collapse in 1997 and go down from there?

5) Finally, if they are so smart, why are they working in their 80s?


Subject: Now is the great day of my power! I reign from the rivers to the ends of the internet. nt


Subject: ooh! they should put the church historical archives online!
Date: Jul 30 21:02

(in its entirety)

pretty please?


Subject: Not To Mention
Date: Jul 30 21:25
Author: JMoney
Mail Address:

They spend millions on Google Advertising as well. Pushing


Subject: A taste of things to come...
Date: Jul 30 22:07
Author: The Truth Hurts

On December 15, 2007, Russell M. Ballard said the following at the university advancement of BYU Hawaii:

"May I ask that you join the conversation by participating on the Internet…to share the gospel and explain in simple, clear terms the message of the Restoration."

This has since been turned into a YouTube video and proclaimed to all TBMs. TSCC is uploading tons of pro-Mormon videos onto YouTube about them, Glenn Beck, and other Mormon things... and they are only accepting comments that praise the organization. One of the most onerous TBM posters (he seems to be everywhere; I almost feel like "he" is actually several elderly missionaries taking turns making posts) is making comments on Mormon videos. On the YouTube video "Mormons Exposed - Famous Mormons & Mormon," here is a little bit of the dialog I had with this user (omiolo):


They forgot to mention the wonderful Mark E. Petersen, the late Mormon apostle, in this video. Here is a touching quote from a talk that this inspired disciple of Christ gave titled "Race Problems - As They Affect the Church":

"I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it."

Go get 'em Mormonism!!!


made up talk! Mark Hoffman is proud of your work!


No, it is quite real. You can find it in the LDS Church Historian's Library in Salt Lake City, Utah. You can also google it to find copies of this talk if you are too lazy to make the trip to the library. Nice try, omiolo, but you're going to have to come up with something better than pretending that LDS church leaders never said bigoted things. Check out the second link in my profile for more of such quotes from other Mormon leaders.

And I don't think bringing up Mark Hoffman is a good idea if you are attempting to defend the Mormon faith. Hoffman could be another "famous" Mormon; for those of you who don't know who he is, he was able to trick the "inspired" Mormon prophet into buying up old documents which had damaging information against the church... which he had forged. Shows how much the leaders of the LDS faith are in contact with an all-knowing deity (Answer: Not at all).


"You can also google it to find copies of this talk"

I can google copies of the Joseph Smith III blessing and the Salamander Letters. Does that make them true or real too? TYPICAL ANTImormon logic! Mark hoffman embraces your logic!


In case you are unable to read, I said you can go find it in the Mormon library in the center of Mormondumb as well. Thanks for a weak ad hominem attack, though. This cracks me up that the newest way that Mormons are defending their faith is acting like some of the bigoted doctrine of their leaders isn't even real. Let me guess, the "Journal of Discourses" aren't real, either? And the "History of the Church," too?

r o f l

This guy, omiolo, constantly posts random church news on pro-Mormon videos; this pushes all relevant comments off the first page so that all viewers see are random comments, and they lose the interest to read any further. He is a representative of the way Mormons argue online; any past doctrines of the Mormon leaders are either not real or just the opinions of individuals. TSCC is trying to drown out voices of reason with random Mormon news and "faith-building" testimonies.

"I raise an apostolic voice of warning about the potentially stifling, suffocating, suppressing, and constraining impact of some kinds of cyberspace interactions and experiences upon our souls." ("Things as They Really Are," David A. Bednar, Ensign, June 2010)


Subject: LDS Inc. will hire its guns
Date: Jul 30 22:38
Author: Mårv Fråndsen

The hired guns aren't stupid, but the LDS leadership is clueless. Witness the war against gays - I just see that as a huge fiasco.

LD$ Inc. will have its effect and its moments and win some battles. But given the basic product is indefensible I can't see it turning out well for them in the long run.

I too grew up when you could find out almost nothing about Mormonism and Mormonism relied on being under the radar. But no more, and sophisticated consultants aren't going to change some basic on the ground facts.


Subject: Social Segments of the Internet
Date: Jul 30 22:39
Author: Snowball

People use the internet in different ways. For LDS people who don't care much about the facts and objectivity, like-minded friend networks confirm their biases. Of course they still run the risk of encountering at black sheep apostates like me and their favorite book lists. But that happens offline too.

I think Richard has a point that Mormons are begining something of an online counter-attack (part deliberate SLC driven; part natural social movement). But it appears to be centered among those who's net use focuses on social relationships rather than facts and information. I don't think the FARMS, FAIR, etc. sites are going to be any more successful no matter how much money the suits throw at them. These social group types, of course, are presisely the types of members they want. Those who don't question the doctrine, history etc. but just pray pay and obey to be part of the group. Those for whom the thought of being outside the tribe is even more scary than it was for many of us.


Subject: Why don't they just inject a GPS microchip into everyone at baptism and be done with it?!?!?! n/t
Subject: I think part of it is to saturate the internet with positive spin on mormonism
Date: Jul 31 03:39
Author: Stuck

They want sites like this and other "anti-mormon" sites to pop up further and further down on the search results list. And by Golly, with a partnership through google, they could make some progress.


Subject: Web Stats
Date: Jul 31 15:41
Author: Scott Mosley

You are spot on. The idea in SLC has to be that they can "outnumber" the information online that is critical of the church, and the apologist sites have not done anything to stop the bleeding. They have probably shown themselves to be ridiculous to people on the fence about mormonism, or to those looking for sensible counter arguments to disturbing facts about the church.


Subject: People might have even more opportunity to see how whacky they are.
Date: Jul 31 03:44
Author: Moniker

They seem to be pretty clueless as to their reputation in the world. When they say things that they think sound so amazing that people will come running to convert, people often end up rolling their eyes, shaking their heads and muttering, "Ahhh. . .the mormons."

The few times I have been masochistic enough to sit through these youtubtestimoneys, I am repulsed. If you read the comments, most people are either repulsed, scared or laughing so hard they don't know what to think about it. The mormons who choose to do this are zealots and they more often than not, come across as a bit freakish.

I welcome their presence on the internet because I see them shooting themselves in the foot so often.


Subject: Well it's either sink or swim time. They've been sinking
Date: Jul 31 08:24
Author: JoD3:360

So they flood the web with their presence, change the manuals, drop McConkieisms from their books, remove Journal of Discourses/Brigham references, and have Monson only testify of Christ at the April 2010 General Conference.

Of course, this will only work superficially because eveyone pro and con already knows the truth, and while members have been condirtioned to blindly gulp down anything the church says, there are signs that they are beginning to notice the nutritional value.

In 2001 it was estimated that of the 12M members of record only 4m were actually considered active. Today with a 13.8M members the number of active members is only 2.2 or 2.7 according to cumorah dot com.

So if these guys are serious about becoming a religion, it is imperetive that they get busy. Cults and corporations have an ugly stygma and the die hards are getting replaced by an informed and inquisitive generation.


Subject: Re: The more Morgbots that go online ...
Date: Jul 31 11:47
Author: Finally Free

Mormons love to use PR and advertising especially.... and it reaches some gullible folks, but the Internet is its undoing.

They are toast!


Subject: That's what got me
Date: Jul 31 18:01
Author: CA girl

I was researching a Primary Sharing Time. I had no questions about Mormonism, no problems with Mormonism (well, no more than the ordinary person) no intention of leaving Mormonism. I googled into so faith-shattering facts and that was the end, well the beginning of the end but the end of trusting them. Bring all the Mormons possible online - it just takes one lucky click and a little courage to read and you can't go back to having your head in the sand.


Subject: The problem with mormons is that even when they control the message . . .
Date: Aug 01 02:43
Author: imaworkinonit

it sounds weird to non-Mormons.

Like that show called "the Mormons". I didn't see the whole thing, but I remember a part focusing on positive aspects of Mormonism where they shared their testimonies and faith-promoting stories. I remember feeling sorry for the people and wondering how they could think what they said would attract people to Mormonism.

Flooding the internet with testimonies and information about Mormonism (even the sanitized version) is NOT going to attract people to Mormonism.


Subject: Re: The problem with mormons is that even when they control the message . . .
Date: Aug 01 07:45
Author: dwindler

Can't help but think that it is just as much an effort to stop the bleeding (tbm's leaving LDS INC)as it is an attempt to attract new tithe payers.

What really irritates me, is the fact that life (internet) has delivered to the church, a golden opportunity to come clean. To acknowlegde theirs sins (lying), to confess them, to repent of them, to promise...well maybe full-disclosure for one thing.

No, not gonna happen. Instead we, the world, gets an all out effort to continue to control information, in this case misinformation, hell it's a "great" story, let's keep it and the church/corporation going.

I for one am sickened by their attitude of... screw the truth, screw honesty, screw integrity. They just don't care about those things, maybe they really are corrupt and completely lacking of any worth.

Subject: Spends $6.5 Million On Google Advertising In One Year
Date: Jul 27 18:04
Author: JMoney

As a webmaster by trade, I use this tool called, all the time in order to see what my competitors are spending on certain keywords and terms. is the most accurate tool to determine what competitors are spending on Google AdWords advertising program. The reason I know is because I SpyFu my own Google AdWords campaigns and is 95% accurate every time.

Here is what SpyFu says about

This means the church has, in the past, paid for 1,812 keywords which results anywhere from 4k a day up to 18k a day.

If you take the highest they have paid, 18k in one month and times it by 30 days you get $540,000 a month in advertising. Times that by 12 months and it comes out to be 6.5 million in a year range!

This may be a high estimate, and things vary and monthly budgets may be higher or lower, but you get the idea of how much the church spends on the net.


Subject: That's AMAZING... thanks for the info!!!
Date: Jul 27 18:15
Author: Morgbot Not

I've been very curious about this. TSCC just spends money right and left to indoctrinate the masses in subtle, and some not so subtle, ways. They're just out there lurking everywhere. It's really quite invasive, which is obviously not a big revelation, but still very irritating...


Subject: Re: Spends $6.5 Million On Google Advertising In One Year
Date: Jul 27 18:59
Author: Rastacat

Ha ha only to have people click on the X in the ad. Ouch virtual door slam to the Mormon missionaries. ha ha ha.


Subject: I must be visiting the right sites, because I've seen ZERO of their web ads. n/t
Subject: We'll know how bad the economy is hurting them when this number crashes. nt


Subject: it looks like
Date: Jul 27 20:14
Author: JMoney is updating their look. If you type "bible" or "book of mormon" etc, in, should show up 1st for that keyword.

I think they are either pausing their Google AdWords account, or not doing it anymore. Ill research over the next couple of days to figure out why. Because with a budget as big as theirs, their account shouldn't ever be turned off or paused.


Subject: bleed the beast dry....
Date: Jul 27 21:43
Author: onelostsoul

should we all be clicking on their ads.. so it cost them more money per month and really hurt them in their pockets? just a thought.. lol... maybe it will work maybe not.. I don't know..


Subject: Yes if everyone
Date: Jul 28 11:16
Author: JMoney

were to start clicking on all the ads, it would drain their budget and their ads wouldn't show up for that day. However, when I type in "book of mormon" it should show up today but it doesn't.

If they show up in the future I'll start a rally to bleed the beast.


Subject: Re: Spends $6.5 Million On Google Advertising In One Year
Date: Jul 28 00:44
Author: anon

If you search is a huge spike October 8th, 2008 which just happens to be the same time the Proposition 8 campaign was in full swing.


Subject: which is really something when you realize
Date: Jul 28 01:35
Author: Baka Boy

that very few (percentage wise) are joining and many (percentage wise) are leaving.

They can spend every dime that they have, people are still going to research on the internet before they join. Most will look at con as well as pro sites. If they choose to join after they learn everything, then that is their choice. I believe that everybody deserves full disclosure.


Subject: This got me thinking
Date: Jul 28 01:44
Author: Peter

They can spend all the money they want on advertising. The fact is, they don't have the truth. No amount of advertising is going to change this fact.

So maybe spending X amount of money might dupe Y number of suckers into joining, but advertising only draws awareness to the product. In this case, the product is defective because it is simply not true.



Recovery from Mormonism - The Mormon Church

Listing of additional short Topics  |  Main Page