Why won't the Church report to the rank & file membership a complete accounting of their tithing

I would appreciate everyone comments

$ and PR.

It's simple-- they have a lot to hide and they've brainwashed all of the sheep in their flock to keep giving money even though they have no idea what it's being spent on.

they do not want people to know that the money has all been embezzled or allocated and they are broke

Could it be that "Not" all the the Church's business dealings are legal

or criticize where the money goes. Also, if people knew how much they took in, or if they knew there was a surplus, they might cut back on their donations.

Um. . . .I mean . . . you are supposed to have FAITH because the Lord's Anointed will never misuse sacred funds.

nobody really knows. It wouldn't be a secret otherwise.

But that's what I always like to say to mormons. Mormon: "Tithing funds are sacred." Me: "But how is it spent?" Mormon: {blank look} Me: "That's right. You don't know. Let that sink in."

I think the best answer is that the church is worried that if all of their finances were opened for public view that Mormons who struggle to pay ten percent,who cacrifice and go with out to pay their tithing,would possibly less inclined to struggle and do without if the knew how much was squandered on worthless projects.

As long as no one know what the Church has and how much they recieve the faithful will still contribute. The more they know the less charitable they could be.

If a billionare pulled his Rolls Royce over next to the sidewalk where you were standing, and he reached out his palm that was laden with a Rolex, and diamond cufflinks.....Would you give him $2 for a cup of coffee?

That's how I felt reading Mormonthink they have so much money they don't need my tithing money.

It's because what they are spending their money on can't see the light of day as it doesn't square with the message they preach. If people find out how much money is being diverted to cover the debts of the top officials, it will cause a firestorm like they've never seen.

It's hard to imagine people just accepting the amount of money being given out to upper pukes when the majority of tithe paying members are sacrificing to pay their tithing and denying their families necessities.

There is a lot to be lost if the truth gets out. Rest assured the church would stop at nothing to keep that from happening. There are billions of dollars at stake (no pun intended).

Remember...they're not secret, they're SACRED!

Secrecy is the clothing that a lie wears in public.

Nicely said!

+1

What would be the reaction in the press if we did a women's suffrage style parade with drums and fanfare down SLC streets with signs saying "Let the Finances be Known!" No other issue at all, just "reveal the finances" so that the message can't be misinterpreted or watered down.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2013 10:37PM by raiku.

Let me know when and where. I'll be there early to set up the snack table. Hydrox cookies and tepid tap water for everyone!

The same reason other Cults don't publish a list of their finances. Would you give thousands of dollars a year to any Cult if you knew it was going to make leaders richer, buy real estate, etc., and only a very small percentage was going to where the members think it is going: to help other people.

The Morg openly admitted on their website they gave 1 billion dollars over 20 years to humanitarian causes. Divide that by 20 years, and that's only 50 million a year. Divide that by the number of members (which I think was less than 10 million when the 20 years started, now more), and you get a rough average of $5 per member per year to humanitarian causes. That tells you all you need to know about church finances. It's NOT going to help the needy.

Two things to remember, what money they gave was probably for PR reasons, and they probably gave it entirely from money from Commonwealth countries, where they have to reveal what they do with their collections by law.

In addition to paying tithing and fast offerings, I pocketed a lot of receipts for items I had purchased for activities. I did the costuming for three musicals and a play and never turned in a receipt because I didn't think my ward on the West side of the Salt Lake valley could afford to pay me. I don't think I am the only person who did that sort of thing. You're planning an event, you want it to be nice, you make up the difference between the budget and the actual cost.

If I had known that the church was growing rich on the backs of working people, living in starter homes and dressing their kids out of DI, I would have turned in my receipts and used the money to help my neighbors directly.

That's just one reason. There are many more.

I used to deduct my expenses for doing church work from my tithing payments.


If I spent $100 on some church activity I was "called" to do, I'd deduct $100 from the amount of tithing I was going to pay.


That way, I got my reimbursements.

Anyone remember the last time they were published?

I seem to remotely remember them being published in abbreviated form in the Ensign.

What about the "Secret Service" is secret? That is the secret.

Because they have a big weapons/defense program they don't want the world to know about.
Seriously.

There is absolutely no reason to keep anything secret in a church unless there are things that church is doing that it doesn't want made public. Now what could that possibly be? That's the question you have to ask yourself.

I don't know of any other church I ever attended that didn't provide complete disclosure of all their activities and finances.

I also find it odd that where I live the church owned farm properties use very generic names for themselves like "Farm Services". They make no public admission that they are owned by or connected in any way to the Mormon church. And at the same time the church is constantly promoting themselves through millions of dollars worth of TV and internet advertising. So why not advertise their land holdings? Guess they aren't very proud of how much real estate they own. They advertise their schools, temples, missionaries, Polynesian Cultural Center, and all their fantastic charitable activities but nothing is ever said about their financial dealings. Guess they are embarrassed or scared?

Exactly.

If my Dad and Stepmom, who are very practical (not to mention frugal) folks, had actual black and white on what their tithing, fast offerings and so forth are going for, they would be out. They are already quite unhappy about the mall in SLC, but taking it on faith that "the Brethren," know what they are doing. My Dad says it seriously, my Stepmom adds a slightly ironic cast to it.

TSCC knows this is true of many members who take it on faith that TSCC is doing the Lord's work with their money. They aren't. That is why everything is secret and they will bend heaven and earth to keep it that way.

they don't want the members knowing how much goes to support the leaders.

It's very simple, really. The people in charge of church finances have more to lose by making them public than keeping them private. As long as people are willing to give away 10% of their income with no accounting of where it goes why bother telling them.

For the same reason the mob doesn't report its earnings publically - TSSC would have to own up to all the naughty naughty things it does.

O.K. I need to say this. It's amazing to see what passes as a religion in America. Look I belong to a catholic parish. Hold on all you catholic haters just hold on. Every year we receive a complete financial report for our parish. ALL catholic parishes do. In addition we can and do upon request receive a copy of the diocese financial report. A diocese is comprised typically of between a couple hundred to maybe five hundred parishes in a given geographical area.

Scandals. Our church is still dealing with and working through them.. Key point here. We are kept informed about these issues. Remember buildings are buildings but the church is the people. And this applies to ALL faiths.

Now if anyone belongs to an organization that claims to be a church. Then I believe said organization should have no problem disclosing it's financials. Really. I've seen it floated here before some crazy ass number for a ten year period that Mormon management had released one time back. Comes out to be like dollars per member given over ten years. Has the light not gone on in your head yet?

Wish I could find that reference. I know it has been posted here before. And when I say dollars I mean over ten years per member less than ten dollars total was given to charity. Can some one please find this and repost it?

I believe that if you own cattle ranches, and farms, and shopping malls, and banking and finance, and realstate, and energy interests you should be able to at least provide enough welfare to your community's as to justify not only your exists tance as a church but also your tax status.

Is this what you're looking for?

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=13507929&itype=NGPSID



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2013 10:36AM by Mnemonic.

It simply exerts more control and allows them to channel money to places were rank-and-file members would not agree that it should go. And they are free to do financial shenanigans like launder money.

I asked the question because I know the Mormon Church has been involved in fraud, using penny stock's with the money going to secret numbered Swiss bank accounts.

Recently this was posted on the forum

"Something Big Is Coming I October"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Options: Reply.Quote.Follow Topic.Report
Posted by: jonathantech ( )
Date: September 04, 2013 06:01PMRe: Something big coming in October? new


My take, after looking at the same postings is, I think there will be financial documents released/uncovered. He might have some inside information that he's been bound to not disclose by some legal contract that ends in october. If he's suggesting that tithing money could be returned (or at least legally asked for) then that means that there is something that would legally compel the church to do so. It is going to be something scandalous and compelling enough for national news media to get involved and the evidence should be strong enough that anybody that's not completely mind-controlled might be able to see how false the church is.

Basically it's going to expose some very naughty financial practices by the church and apologetics won't be able to justify that that and only the top 15 could come out saying "god told us too" to save them.

I wait to see if I am right :)

-------------------------------------------------------------


Keep your fingers crossed, Its my prediction that the Mormon Church is going to be caught up in this tax dragnet of laundering stolen penny stock fraud proceeds into building Tempele & Church house's through out the world to enhance the growth of the Church

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/03/us-usa-tax-swiss-lawyers-idUSBRE98214S20130903

I know this is true, since I've been part of the investigation that's gone on for over 25 years by the Justice Department.

Once again part of the Quote above

"It is going to be something scandalous and compelling enough for national news media to get involved and the evidence should be strong enough that anybody that's not completely mind-controlled might be able to see how false the church is."

Its Coming Fokes, I promise You


Rick Beals

In Canada and in the UK, they have to disclose their finances. If you read those statements, it'll give you an idea of where the money generally goes.

One thing it does reveal is just how little money actually goes towards charities outside of the Church.

When I worked for the Church, I realized how much goes towards utility bills. Think of all the electricity, water, heat, air-conditioning and phone bills for all the chapels in the world, all the visitors centres and all the temples.

Then there are repair bills for when the heating goes out, or something else goes wrong. There are chapel renovations, the building of new chapels and temples.

And all the land needs to be taken care of too. There is snow removal, grass cutting, etc.

With the number of buildings they have, it all takes money to maintain them.

There used to be cleaning bills, but now the members are supposed to do that.

All churches have those expenses. If you look at local church budgets that publish them, usually about 33%-60% of the income depending on the church goes to paying local salaries (pastor, secretary, music director, janitorial are the most common). They do that on what is usually estimated at people giving about 2%-3% of their income.

The morg doesn't pay these people locally, and demands 10%. Where does the extra 7% plus all the savings on local salaries go?

My husband is tbm. He tithes on his portion of our income. I refuse to pay tithing to tscc..He also gives an enormous amount of time helping people. He supplies gas to various trips - to be reimbursed. And I have to hope he remembers to do that. HE also is the one who ends up driving to various meetings, and oh,they are many. People do not offer to help with gas for these meetings. We are retired. What is my retirement? trying to get a moment, hour, day with my husband that isn't about church.
And all the good I see that we could do in our community. I do what I can. Our church is so inside itself. Doesn't know how many wonderful people there are out there doing wonderful things.
Yah, $5 per person over ten years. that's just great.

They're embarrassingly rich and greedy.

Because they own enough lawyers to be able to do whatever they want.

Re: Why Are The Mormon Church's Finances A Secret


I asked the question because I know the Mormon Church has been involved in fraud, using penny stock's with the money going to secret numbered Swiss bank accounts.

Recently this was posted on the forum

"Something Big Is Coming I October"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Options: Reply.Quote.Follow Topic.Report
Posted by: jonathantech ( )
Date: September 04, 2013 06:01PMRe: Something big coming in October? new


My take, after looking at the same postings is, I think there will be financial documents released/uncovered. He might have some inside information that he's been bound to not disclose by some legal contract that ends in october. If he's suggesting that tithing money could be returned (or at least legally asked for) then that means that there is something that would legally compel the church to do so. It is going to be something scandalous and compelling enough for national news media to get involved and the evidence should be strong enough that anybody that's not completely mind-controlled might be able to see how false the church is.

Basically it's going to expose some very naughty financial practices by the church and apologetics won't be able to justify that that and only the top 15 could come out saying "god told us too" to save them.

I wait to see if I am right :)

-------------------------------------------------------------


Keep your fingers crossed, Its my prediction that the Mormon Church is going to be caught up in this tax dragnet of laundering stolen penny stock fraud proceeds into building Tempele & Church house's through out the world to enhance the growth of the Church

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/03/us-usa-tax-swiss-lawyers-idUSBRE98214S20130903

I know this is true, since I've been part of the investigation that's gone on for over 25 years by the Justice Department.

Once again part of the Quote above

"It is going to be something scandalous and compelling enough for national news media to get involved and the evidence should be strong enough that anybody that's not completely mind-controlled might be able to see how false the church is."

Its Coming Fokes, I promise You


Rick Beals

I'll believe that when I see it. Show me the money (fraud).

Because they know the little goodwill they lose by keeping their finances secret is far less than the ENORMOUS goodwill they would lose by publishing them and revealing income, expenses, what the top guys are really paid, and all of the sweetheart contracting deals that are going on.

Because people would see the church as a real estate business and not a charitable christian church. That's why JESUS CHRIST is in bold letters, but finances are hidden.

Because it could lead to melt down...and a class action lawsuit...naaah...the chicken$hit TBM's would never do that...no balls!

Ron Burr

It's God's money! Now stop asking questions!

(In case you think I'm joking, read any article about tithing and see how they look at it...)

I predict a Justice Department press conference with an anouncement the Mormon Church owes money to the IRS on proceeds of the sales of fraudulent securities

Because if the sheeple really knew what their money is paying for donations would drop really fast!