So a friend of mine was a SAHM and she was a full tithe payer. Her husband left her and they got divorced and surprise surprise he was called into the bisphoric of his new ward. The State ordered him to pay 35% of his take home income as child support. My friend knows he pays tithing on his gross income so she felt like she should not pay tithing on the child support her ex-husband pays for his children.

Her bishop however decided her children's child support is income to her family and therefor she must pay tithing on her children's support payments in order to renew her temple recommend.

This sounds like double taxation to me since if she was still married to her ex, there would be no tithing due on child support payments.

I did not include the alimony she gets from him but I would think the outcome should be the same.

Does it matter if he pays tithing or not as to if she has to pay it?

They are no longer a family and the alimony she receives from him is income. If she's paying income tax on the child support, I'd say that's income, too.

However, I do see how your friend would be annoyed by it. If I were her, I'd tell the ex that 20% of his income is being tithed to the church rather than 10%.

Child support is not taxable income, although alimony is.

Conversely, paying child support is not deductible, but paying alimony is.

That'd be 13.5%. Of his 100% income, he paid 10%, but also gave 35% to her. So 45% of his income is gone. She now pays 10% on that 35%, which is 3.5% of his income. So 48.5% of his income is gone - subtract the 35% and you have left what went to tithing.

Almost
Only problem: he pays 10% on his *gross.*
He pays 35% child support on his *net.*
Apples and oranges :)

I pay over 3,100 to my ex-wife per month. She is a TBM. She does not pay tithing on that. Yeah it's double tithing to the cult, but more so, it takes money, meant for a child's care, away from the child. Evil Cult.

+1

Exactly. Child support is called child support for a reason. Its for the care of the child. Its not supposed to be used to support a church.

It is meant for food, clothing, shelter, medical expenses, education, and whatever else is needed for the maintenance and well-being of the child.

Adults have to administer the use of the money, and in many cases, are held accountable for it, but the money is that of the child. NOT the adults.

Some can - and should - be used for common household expenses within the house where the child lives. The child, after all, benefits from the roof over his/her head, food, medical insurance, etc.

I have heard some kids screaming bloody murder that it is THEIR money, and the parents must use it to get the latest fad clothes or see thus-and-such movie. NOT SO. It must be used for the child's maintenance, not the child's whims. And those calls must be made by the adult in charge.

This is the truth. I received child support for my two children and it was used to give them a roof over their heads and food on the table.
When my youngest was 11 her father passed away. At this point she was able to receive social security death benefits. Every year I had to account for where that money was spent. Just like the child support before it was spent to help pay the rent, food on the table, school supplies, medical and dental expenses.
Because this money was available both through child support and death benefits both of my children could get better clothes and presents than I received as a child. This did not mean I paid 200.00 dollars for the latest style of pants though.
I took my children on weekend trips around the state because of this help.
I never used the money to buy me the best clothes or go on trips without my children.
The money is for the children and their care period.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2017 06:32PM by flutterbypurple.

Yeah because the poor church needs the $. City Creek just isn't bringing in enough to keep the lights on anymore.

Tithing [the way the Mormons do it] is kind of like buying your way to salvation and it is a con scheme and a lie, like their cult. No one should have to pay it, it should be entirely voluntary. And the needs of your kids should always come before the GA geezer fatcats and their investments and piles of gold.

The father if anyone is responsible for tithing on his earnings.

He is still the father of those kids and owes them his support.

Short answer nobody should pay tithing

Long answer whoever gets to spend it

I believe tithing should be paid on alimony, which is still alive and well when both parties agree upon it in the settlement. However, I don't believe that paying tithe on child support, which is for the benefit of the children, should be paid. The IRS doesn't see it as income. It's the other parents contribution to the maintenance of the children and it's not money given to children, or earned by them. So no tithing is required.

"Tithing [the way the Mormons do it] is kind of like buying your way to salvation and it is a con scheme and a lie, like their cult. No one should have to pay it, it should be entirely voluntary. And the needs of your kids should always come before the GA geezer fatcats and their investments and piles of gold."

Second that....

In some states (Ohio) it is illegal to spend child support on things like tithing. It's money that is strictly for supporting your children. If you get caught, you could lose your right to child support.

My bishop told me to pay on my child support. I showed him the info on it being against the law, and he told me to pay it anyway. I ignored that ignorant advice.

^^^^ This is the correct solution. A bishop has only the power you give him.

A religion only has the power you give it.

Some of it will probably end up being TRIPLE TITHED by the end. Her husband pays, gives her money so then she has to pay, and if she gives her kids an allowance the bishop will want them to pay tithing on that too.

It is the child's money. Not hers. It is her child's income. And it is tax free. She might not be entitled to give the child's money away. Therefore she is paying more than a 10 percent tithe because she is tithing extra on her own money.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2013 07:15PM by snuckafoodberry.

the church has never hesitated stomping on kids to pick up a buck

If the Mormon church was a decent and humane organization, they would not charge the poor for tithing. There would be an income cutoff. If...

It never stops. If it comes to choosing between church and family the advice is always choose church.
As we said in the russian marines; bullshitski!

"Tithing [the way the Mormons do it] is kind of like buying your way to salvation and it is a con scheme" Sounds to me like the old protection racket organized crime used in the time of Al capone and the mafia still uses today, Pay us so your buisness doesn't get vandalized, or so that you and your family aren't harmed. Pesonaly my response to tscc's demands would be go to BLAZES the children need that money more then some money hungry cult. As for the money belonging to the childreen it wouldn't suprise to to see the bishops trying to con the children they seem to be willing to stoop to and depth to get their greedy hands on the money.

Child support is for the needs of the child, and not those of the parent. In many states, you can sue a parent who misuses child support, which would include paying tithing, in order to get the money returned. I knew a guy who was receiving child support in Alabama, who was had claimed to demand documented receipts for how the child support was spent, and was occasionally able to receive reimbursements when the mother was unable to provide documentation. That may be a little extreme, and he may have been exaggerating or lying.

Either way, if I learned a TBM parent was paying tithing on child support I was paying her, I would talk to a lawyer about filing to have an adjustment on such payments, since she obviously does not need ten percent of the money. If I won, I would then use the money to get my child something nice.

Tithing is not a tax. It is extortion. Poverty is not the defining characteristic of who pays it. Fear and gullibility are.

Is the Mormon Church running out of money that they are concerned about such picayune matters?

Help her see this for what it is and find her way out...

her children are losing out on the full amount of support from their father. Unnecessarily.

As people around here say, not paying tithing is an automatic 10% pay increase!

Worse yet is the father who pays his tithing so that he can go to the temple with his new wife but doesn't pay his child support.

My ex did that - for years, hopping from state to state when he was about to get caught. He has no regrets, though, because he (in his eyes wisely) invested his child support in stocks and property, ended up only paying a fraction of the principle and now lives off the proceeds of said investments.

The issue of tithing on child support is one of my issues that drove me out of the church. My best friend and I were both divorced and each of us took the tithed-twice argument to our bishops. We received different "inspired" answers.

She, who had never been a problem, got relief. I, on the other hand, was a troublemaker, so I was told I had to pay on my child support.

Apparently, HF carried a grudge and didn't mind punishing the children for the sins of the parent.


Hah! I knew for sure there was not only no inspiration, but not even consistent member management from above the bishops.


Anagrammy

You would be hard pressed to find any reasonable person who sees child support as being income. It's not. Even the IRS doesn't view it that way. It is money that is intended for the direct support of minor children (food, shelter, clothing, etc.) Moreover, if the father is Mormon, the money that he earned has already been tithed. If the children were living under his own roof, he would not be writing a check to the church every time he pays for something for his kids.

The paying ex-spouse is taxed on the child support, not the custodial parent.

Some bishops would say to the woman to pay tithing on it, some would say not to. That's the fickleness of the calling and the station. There is no consistency among the leaders as it varies from person to person.

All Mormon tithing is double taxation. It's a temple tax on top of civic taxes.

Tithing families with real needs is a very EVIL shaming practice. Lets kick and manipulate this lady while she down and prevent her from taking her kids on vacation, getting a car or whatever. Very family NOT friendly.

Another practice equally if not more evil is denying someone a recommend to attend a wedding of a one of their kids. Pure Cult Evil!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2017 06:01PM by perky.

It is N E V E R about anything but Get the Money!!!!

What is of the utmost import is where is "TheMaster?"

He has been mum for more than several weeks now.

If anyone has heard from him, please do tell.

I was homeless from age 13-19 and received a very tiny homeless allowance from the government (Australia) because I remained in school. The money was barely enough for food, transport to school and a few other necessities, and yet my bishop called me into his office (he had persuaded me to continue to go to church after I could no longer live at home- another story!) and told me I needed to pay tithing so I could go to the temple. I told him I didn't work or earn any money and he said I should pay it from my allowance. So I did. I had to go to the temple right? I eventually ended up getting caught shoplifting...