Regarding the Las Vegas Temple suicide victim that happened this week...


Does anyone know if Scott Bybee ever received his Temple Endowments? Did anyone on here know Scott Greer Bybee (son of Judge Jay Bybee) personally or have face to face interaction with him or his family of any kind?


Edit: I know that I'm in speculation mode. I was only fielding this forum to see if anyone on here knew Scott Bybee in some faculty because I'm in search of FACTS. I'm not interested in spreading lies. I'm aware of how sensitive that this subject can be.

Edit 2: No, I don't care about Judge Bybee's torture memo connection. Please be courteous and try not to derail into a discussion about his dad, if this is possible.

Edit 3: Please try to not comment unless you have facts. Thank you.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 06:47PM by mrplisk.

His family is ultra TBM so he was probably a RM so he probably did have endowments. What does the waterboarding thing have to do with this? Every news story mentions it.

I'm not convinced. I was TBM, but I never got my endowments. I was active until 22 years of age. What mission area did he serve? Does anyone know?

It;s a reference to who his father is - a guy who helped get the use of torture approved.

enoughenoch19 Wrote:
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> What does the waterboarding thing have to do with this? Every
> news story mentions it.

Because if you grew up in an American family where your father was instrumental in approving the governmental use of torture (especially in dubious circumstances), the chances of your having a healthy and happy childhood and adolescence are pretty close to zero.

I have read memoirs of people who grew up in what were, or became, Nazi areas of Europe, and whose fathers were involved in torture of various kinds as high-level administrators, and some of these kids actually had what were to THEM, at THAT time, "good" childhoods, in their own opinions.

This is VERY unlikely to have been the case in this particular case. The fact that his father is WHO he is (in an American context), is a strong indicator that this guy, who chose to kill himself inside a Mormon temple, probably never felt (within himself) that he had a chance.

I feel very sorry for him. :-(

tevai Wrote:
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> enoughenoch19 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> This is VERY unlikely to have been the case in
> this particular case. The fact that his father is
> WHO he is (in an American context), is a strong
> indicator that this guy, who chose to kill himself
> inside a Mormon temple, probably never felt
> (within himself) that he had a chance.
>
> I feel very sorry for him. :-(

Never felt that he had a chance for what? And doesn't anyone know if Scott Bybee had his endowments done or not? @_@

No, we exmos aren't bitter. Not at all. We dont let our feelings about the cult influence absolutely everything related to TSCC.

You do not know anything about Scott and you know very little about his father yet you and other posters continue to make ignorant purely speculative comments.

How does this help you?

I do not know what happened or why. I do not know if the location was a message and if so what that message was. I do not know if guilt, or orientation, or mental illness (though there are reports) played a part. But I know that I don't know.

otedge Wrote:
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> No, we exmos aren't bitter. Not at all. We dont
> let our feelings about the cult influence
> absolutely everything related to TSCC.
>
> You do not know anything about Scott and you know
> very little about his father yet you and other
> posters continue to make ignorant purely
> speculative comments.
>
> How does this help you?
>
> I do not know what happened or why. I do not know
> if the location was a message and if so what that
> message was. I do not know if guilt, or
> orientation, or mental illness (though there are
> reports) played a part. But I know that I don't
> know.


I am fully agreeing with you that I am speculating in ignorance. That's the point of my post! I admit that I don't have any information, and I want to be proven wrong! I have my suspicions, and I'm allowed to have them. I know that you're worried about gossip, and lord knows that I am too (though what is the use since even asking questions like these can start unfortunate and uninformed claims about Scott Bybee),but... what am I supposed to do if I want to know the truth? Ignore that this happened???

I'm sorry, but I want to know what happened to Scott Bybee, even if it goes against my suspicion or a narrative that invalidates my own sad history with the Church. I'm okay with that. The truth and his memory in context is far more important to me than my ego.

There. Am I clear on my intentions here, man?

And to answer WHY I want to know, I want to know for the same reason that I wanted to know why Henry Stuart Matis and the gay BYU electrotherapy students a few decades ago killed themselves: I want to know if pressuring people in sexual sin puts people in mental states that compromises their mortality. That's what.

Does calling normal sex acts a sin bully the sinners to suicide sometimes? I think that proving that it does validates one of the strongest arguments against Christianity and in this specific case Mormonism.

I have a hypothesis, and I want to see if it holds up with evidence. You don't get more fucking empirical or responsible than that.

So. How is my question ignoble? Please tell me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 06:39PM by mrplisk.

We also see that a parent attributes his decision to commit suicide to a struggle with long-term depression. The same quote celebrated that he is in a better place now.

In order to avoid speculation I will let the PR statement words speak for themselves and also acknowledge that family and friends owe no explanation, but they also are accountable somehow for any lies, deceptions, half-truths, and whitewashing.

Many have seen parents choose and protect the Mormon church over their children. I cannot say that is what has happened here, but I do understand the desire to want the voice of Scott Bybee to be heard clearly. Perhaps, he couldn't find the words to explain why. I know of no reason to think that the reason apart from depression will be clear at this point, no note, no conflicting stories, just another child of a Mormon family killing himself in a very public Mormon place of worship.

Maybe that says enough there, at least to those of us that are paying attention and don't think we have all the answers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 07:03PM by gentlestrength.

So. How is my question ignoble? Please tell me.
----------
Mrplisk:

My comments were 100% directed at tevai's ignorant and entirely speculative comments. I did not quote or address him/her directly and the thread is a little off because you and I were posting at the same time so I can see where you would think they were directed at you.

My comments were NOT directed at you. I see you are after fact (as I have been). Many posters here (since it happened earlier this week) have not been and for some reason it really really bugs me. I think you and I are after the same thing at least as far as Scott is concerned -- understanding and the truth.

Peace.

> Mrplisk:
>
> My comments were 100% directed at tevai's ignorant
> and entirely speculative comments. I did not quote
> or address him/her directly and the thread is a
> little off because you and I were posting at the
> same time so I can see where you would think they
> were directed at you.
>
> My comments were NOT directed at you. I see you
> are after fact (as I have been). Many posters here
> (since it happened earlier this week) have not
> been and for some reason it really really bugs me.
> I think you and I are after the same thing at
> least as far as Scott is concerned --
> understanding and the truth.
>
> Peace.


Well I'll be a Monkey's Uncle. I am sorry that I took offense. Forgive me for being touchy. Such is my nature. I wish I knew how to fix being such a self-centered person with a self-esteem of glass, but I find power by just admitting that I'm a softy. If I can't make my way down the AA steps, at least I can admit that I have a problem. ;)

Once again, I apologize, man. And thank you for your empathy. I mean it. :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 07:51PM by mrplisk.

We do know he killed himself.
We know he was a Mormon.
And we do know who his father is.

'nuff said.

Glo Wrote:
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> We do know he killed himself.
> We know he was a Mormon.
> And we do know who his father is.
>
> 'nuff said.


I think that more needs to be said. I will agree with you that those three statements are the only facts that we have.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 06:41PM by mrplisk.

I have pondered this question with interest and am curious:

What line/element/point of consideration/inquiry/argument rests upon whether he did, or did not, have endowment?

zenjamin Wrote:
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> I have pondered this question with interest and am
> curious:
>
> What line/element/point of
> consideration/inquiry/argument rests upon whether
> he did, or did not, have endowment?


Only if perhaps the suicide stemmed from depression revolving around a worthiness issue. That's all. :)

Ah! Interesting. Thanks.

It's only interesting if it's true. So far, my leads remain at a big fat Zero. *shrug*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 07:53PM by mrplisk.

I have speculated it did revolve around a worthiness issue. Just a hunch yes.

It is my understanding that Scott had his endowments. He entered the temple in a suit and then went and changed his clothes before going into the atrium. I don't know how else he would have changed his clothes unless he went past the desk.

Yes, let's not make assumptions.

He killed himself at a mormon temple. He had mormon parents. We don't know for a fact if mormonism played any role, so don't speculate.

While we're at it, we don't know for a fact if Joseph Smith's Pet Rock talked to God. Just because a man's is talking to a rock in his hat, don't assume he's not talking to god.

Ingenious.
Not too late to start a Pet Rock God cult! :)

Way ahead of ya! :) :) :)

hello Wrote:
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> Way ahead of ya! :) :) :)



Only by at least a couple of thousand years...and very likely a few more.

:) :) :)

thingsithink Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, let's not make assumptions.
>
> He killed himself at a mormon temple. He had
> mormon parents. We don't know for a fact if
> mormonism played any role, so don't speculate.
>
> While we're at it, we don't know for a fact if
> Joseph Smith's Pet Rock talked to God. Just
> because a man's is talking to a rock in his hat,
> don't assume he's not talking to god.

Yeah, it's for this very reason that I clarified on my inquiry. I am trying to collect information, and I'd rather it be checked information instead of rushed conclusions. :)

Oh, and to elaborate, inductive reasoning isn't bad as long as the inquirer has the ability to admit that he could very well be wrong, as is the case with myself. :)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2013 07:47PM by mrplisk.

A reader comment in the Las Vegas Sun mentioned a few says ago that Scott's ward had their stake temple night there when he offed himself.

Seems like he did it like this to send a message. Most suicides are in private-no?

I have known the parents for years, although I did not know Scott other than in passing. Scott had not served a mission. To my knowledge he had never been endowed, I am not sure whether he attended church any more (I never asked his parents about either of those things). I never heard a whiff about any LGBT issues, I think he was straight (although I don't know for sure) He had suffered from bi-polar disorder, suicidal impulses and attempts for many years, which made it difficult if not impossible to hold a job, attend college, or anything else. His parents were in constant fear that each day might be the day he succeeded. I don't think anyone can say what kind of message a severely mentally ill person sends upon taking his/her own life.

Any URL links to Scott's dad and weatherboarding?

Meant waterboarding

Found this
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1894309,00.html