As a non mo, nor someone who wasn't raised in any type of religion, I'm curious about the labels used by mormons..

BIC...Convert..."from Pioneer stock"..

Is there really that much emphasis put on these labels?? Meaning do BICs think they are better/more deserving than converts?
Do those of pioneer stock think they are better than the normal BIC mormons?

Since I wasn't raised with any real religion growing up, do Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists..etc delineate themselves from others in their church in a similar fashion??

"...of Pioneer stock" sounds like a good animal to breed with as opposed to someone I'd want to have a friendly relationship with..


Discuss amongst yourselves...

BIC..... Means nothing and no one I knew advertised it or felt overly proud of it.

Being of pioneer heritage however was different, those with LDS backgrounds frequently did tell others about it, like they somehow earned the title..


BTW: How does a "nonmo" get on this board? Whats your interest?

My ancestors were pioneers and I'm very proud of them. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your heritage.

I never thought it made me better than other people, but I am justifiably proud of them for leaving Norway and Denmark and building entire communities out of nothing in Southern Utah.

+1
Except mine left thier homes in NY, VT and Canada to eventually end up building towns out of nothing in UT.

"BTW: How does a "nonmo" get on this board? Whats your interest?"

Because I moved my family here due to my job. I initially heard nice things about mormons but watched my kids experience something different from other mormon kids (shunning).

I started researching the whole mormon religion starting with the LDS sites but ended up here due to the honest and sometimes brutal answers given to basic and hidden doctrinal questions

And the paradoxical element is by being straightforward, our friend here (no sarcasm intended) will likely duck many of the "brutal answers."

This stuff is hardest on those with closed minds...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2011 03:49PM by SL Cabbie.

either within their own denomination or about others to the extent that Mormons seem to. However, "liberal" and "fundie" are pejoratives thrown around at those who hold different ideas. Boy, that was awkward sounding, but I hope you get my drift.

Regularguy, I'm a nevermo who was raised in the eastern US, currently living in Idaho, who went looking for answers about Mormonism I couldn't get from Mormons. I found this site and found out a whole lot, which helped me in my day to day dealings with them. Now I really enjoy reading a lot of the viewpoints of many of the people here and almost feel like I kind of know them, although I've never met any of them IRL.

I did get quite a chuckle visiting a TBM friend in southern Alberta and someone had asked him if he was a "Jones" of the reknowned "Jones" clan of that small town, and when he responded with a no, he was from Ontario (believe his Mom was a convert), the person asking lost all interest incontinuing the conversation. I guess the real "Joneses" are royalty in that community.

My mission prez, Charles Jones, was from that area. He was also one of the biggest assholes I've ever met in my life.

I come from EXTENSIVE pioneer ancestry and never thought a thing about it because my family was not treated like mormon royalty for several reasons--so when I came to this board, I was rather surprised by that idea.

AND I always thought converts were special--in terms of they were smart enough to convert, but when I now read on here, I remember the attitude towards converts. I just ignored it before.

Mormons are a cliqueish bunch--there is a list somewhere on this website about "mormon royalty"--and the levels of it. If you do a search on the main board, you may be able to find it or maybe someone can link it.

..it is implied that coming from pioneer stock means your family members are more valiant or should be looked up too. It is something to be proud of, that your family lines show more strength because their family members have lived valiantly and have continued to keep the gospel in their lives.

When I was growing up we were taught to believe that we were sent to Mormon families because we lived more valiantly in the pre-mortal existence.

Around here, it's usually "Brainwashed In the Cradle" to describe the intense indoctination an invidual faces in their upbringing.

Because those levels and intensity vary, the struggles an individual faces in breaking free of the mental shackles can vary as well.

As a nonmo (I'm technically one myself, although as I've said, you'd never know it from my therapy bills), you'll just want to be sensitive to how much of an impact Mormonism can have on people.

And yes, I come from original pioneer stock (polygamy on both sides of my father's family), and I want to embrace that heritage because it was something powerful they accomplished "building Zion," but the religious aspect always leaves me cold.

.....and I'm not only talking about the priesthood authority structure.

Among LDS membership there is a fixation on status based on heritage (pioneer stock) or worthiness/calling and even to a degree whether one is a convert or not. It's a little like the Jews taking serious pride in being the seed of Abraham. Likewise LDS love the idea of not only being the chosen but in even being more chosen among the chosen. For years as a Mormon I felt a little like a bastard child when I heard leaders share pioneer stories not knowing I had early Mormon ancestors. When I found out it was a point of pride. Now I could care less.

It's all about status IMO.

I know quite a few TBMs who think that BICs are more special spirits. My sister's oldest was not BIC and has a birth defect, the other 10 are BIC and "perfect." She claims the first wouldn't have had a birth defect had they waited to conceive. A boss I used to have also had the oldest not BIC and he said he loved the oldest, but he could certainly tell the difference in their spirits and that the younger ones that were BIC were more "special" whatever the hell that means.

Modern Mormons may not emphasize "Born in the Covenant" but Brigham Young sure did. He claimed righteous parents whose children were born in the covenant would have the power granted to them to bring their children back if they strayed out of the faith.

A few years ago, Robert Millet wrote a book reminding parents of these quotes by BY to comfort those who thought their children had made choices forever leaving the church.

http://deseretbook.com/When-Child-Wanders-Robert-L-Millet/i/4920313Deseret

The prophet Joseph Fielding Smith said a very similar thing:
Those born under the covenant, throughout all eternity, are the children of their parents. Nothing except the unpardonable sin, or sin unto death, can break this tie. If children do not sin as John says [1 John 5:16-17], �unto death,� the parents may still feel after them and eventually bring them back to them again.

http://www.sugardoodle.net/Rebellious%20Children/Blessings%20of%20the%20temple.shtml



It implies if you were righteous enough to be born in the covenant your parents are promised they can save you if you lose faith.

At one time it was openly taught that where you were born and the parents you were born to was largely dependent on your behavior in the pre-existence. As a natural outgrowth, people who are born in the Mormon Church (BIC) are more worthy than those who weren't. Those born into pioneer families and Mormon royalty were better than those who were BIC. The lowest rung is people who will not have an opportunity to hear about Mormonism in their lifetime.

Mormonism is a very class oriented belief system.

I had a missionary companion who had pages of quotes and conference talks expounding on this. He wanted me to understand that he was better than me. Since the time of McKay, this has been given less and less emphasis because it doesn't sit well with new converts and investigators. When I have some time I will pull some of the information up and post it out here.