"In a quoted document, to omit parts of the quote without noting the omission is to perpetrate a lie. Earlier standards of authorship may not have required this, as the above quotes suggest, but the standard is clear today. A lie is also furthered when one remains silent in a circumstance where he or she has a duty to speak and disclose. In other words, a person lies by concealing when he or she has a duty to reveal. Some relationships and some circumstances create such a duty.

In contrast, when there is no duty to reveal all and when one has not made an affirmative statement implying that all has been revealed, it is simply incorrect to equate silence with lying...

...Then the Lord gave this interesting instruction: “show it not unto the world until you have accomplished the work of the translation…that ye may be preserved” (vs. 34-35). “Hold your peace,” the Lord concluded, “until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter” (v. 37).

Here we see that although a man is not justified in lying to detect a liar, he is justified (indeed, Joseph Smith was commanded!) to withhold things from the world in order to preserve himself and safeguard the work in which he is involved. In other words, we must not lie, but we are free to tell less than we know when we have no duty to disclose." (http://www.lds-mormon.com/oakslying.shtml)

I have two words: Mental Gymnastics

I have two more words: TSCC lies

I have two more words: Just believe

*Note: I posted this under the influence of caffeine. I just want to give full disclosure in this topic about lying. Oh, and I'm an ex-Mormon. Am I justified?

They really should remove the question members are required to answer for a temple recommend about being honest with your fellow men...since being less than honest is their duty when withholding information to safeguard the good name of god's only true church. Except even asking that question makes it appear as if the church is honest and above reproach.

Handy how JS made up the "revelation" about not telling all he knew.

But since Oaks was the Utah chief jstice, he knows that withholding relevant information violates the law.

But since Oaks was the Utah Chief Justice, he knows that withholding relevant information violates the law - (man's law).

And by contrast, TSCC advocates that the higher law called "God's Law" justifies concealing truthful information?

How can Oaks live with the cog dis? He knows the law, and moreover he knows that words have actual meaning and weight.

Yes, LDS it's just a religious cult started by and continually run by a bunch of sham religious con artists.

Jehovah's Witnesses follow similar cow crap from their religious cult leaders not to disclose anything that might put someone off the cult or make the cult look bad however TRUE or FACTUAL it is. They too will pluck a verse or two to supposedly justify their deceptive practices.

I don't understand that if I can ask the right questions and practice due diligence before joining a religion(sham lying cult really) why can't others?

When a middle aged female missionary from Poland told me that American Indians were descended of Israelites in a migration via Lehi etc and I could read about it in the Book of Mormon I thought wow where have I been all my life, never to think about the origin of the American Indians. How 'uneducated' of me and that I ought to pull myself together and widen my horizons in life.

I would have thought that she had done her research prior!?!?

But oh no! So when I happen to mention that after much diligent research on the matter that they appear to be of Siberian Mongolian origin via Beringia etc and had she looked into that?

Add the head in a hat with a garden rock and what do get?

I get told by her to stop communicating with her and she bares a lame testimony! hahahha

Stupid Cults.

Edit PS She was also scammed out of her 'life savings' by her Branch President, trusting him with her life savings. apparently the Mormon temple Recommend LDS Priesthood Ass spent a stretch in Jail!

It took me ages to find out from her how she came to be virtually penniless on her mission. She would only tell me that a trusted friend conned her.

She and many others were conned by the Branch President and it seems that it wasn't faith promoting for me to know, until it slipped around 12 months later of correspondence and only because she thought I was finally getting baptised and it may be safe to say.

Another point too, she told me that she was thinking of serving a mission and then when God told her (LDS pomp ass bishop lol) she knew she must!

The whole thing sounds so stupid. The delusional state that some of these members are in is ridiculous and hence vulnerable to abuse by any unscrupulous Priesthood leaders.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2014 02:31PM by zeezrom.

"...he is justified (indeed, Joseph Smith was commanded!) to withhold things from the world in order to preserve himself and safeguard the work in which he is involved."

this is exactly how they can know the whole ugly truth about TSCC and still 'believe in' keeping it going

when reading 1984 the explanations of doublethink seem almost absurd - but then you run across something like this statement by Oaks and realize that Orwell was dead on

"Some relationships and some circumstances create such a duty [to speak and disclose]".

So the $64,000 question is this: does running a church that asks its members to donate sizeable chunks of their time and money constitute such a circumstance, if "speaking and disclosing" is likely to have an effect on the members' willingness to donate?

Since the church doesn't disclose, Oaks' answer to this question must necessarily be "no".

What that means is that when speaking and disclosing affects the members' willingness to donate their time and their money, there is no duty to disclose in Oaks' reasoning - the reasoning of a lying, deceiving conman.

I think the operative phrase is this one: "until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter".


The Brethren are simply waiting for God to tell them when to make all things known. If God does not give them orders to do so, then we must all wait patiently until He does.

#9. Straight from Gods mouth to Dallin Oaks the apostle and supposedly every other human that ever lived or will live.

"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor"

Maybe Dallin is using the "We believe in the Bible as far as it is translated correctly" argument. God got #9 wrong according to Dallin even though it was a direct translation from god’s finger to the rock. No human translator to screw it up. (if you believe such things ever happened that is)

What can be said? They are in worse shape than we all thought.