Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
If so, please let me know your story...
I did. My wife is not really a TBM, but believes it's the truth regardless of what I tell her. She thinks that me being in the church some how makes me better. Anyways I would always question the missionaries on stuff that I shouldn't know yet as an investigator. It always seemed to make my wife mad as she didn't know some of the stuff I knew. I even asked one of the missionaries if we were born athiest. He answered yes and my wife got mad. I still drink coffee, tea and beer but my wife does not know about the beer. I hope one day she will listen to me instead of LDS Inc and move on.
No, but I believe another similar category is converting at an age when you could not have made an informed decision (ages 12 - 16).
I did. I knew that TSCC (then: "church") was a fake as an organization, but thought it was close enough to mainstream Christianity so that "how bad could it be?" It was (and is) important to my wife, so after a few years I joined. Sadly, I did not do due diligence at the time. Packham's materials were already available then, and this forum was likely operational, too (at least the domain was registered before that time). We were inactive for quite some time, so it didn't really bother me until things started ramping up in the late 2000's. More attendance, more tithing, more callings. I fell into depression (although not so deep I couldn't carry on working), but for at least a year I was very much a nihilist ("nothing matters!"). Then a slow return to my original but restructured philosophy started, and eventually established itself along with increasing resistance to TSCC (which brings us to today). While the experience was unnecessary and would've been entirely avoidable, I suppose my current philosophical views are the result of the past decade's challenges, and I'm quite happy (philosophy-wise) where I am at the moment. Only it couldn't be further away from TSCC, perhaps short of being an atheist.
"thought it was close enough to mainstream Christianity"
And this of course is why Mormon mainstreaming.
TSSC knows that if it presented itself honestly,
it would hurt sales.
And this of course is why Mormon mainstreaming.
TSSC knows that if it presented itself honestly,
it would hurt sales.
Yes, I did.
Actually, I was "converted" by none other than Ken Clark. Yes, THE Ken Clark. (If you happen to be reading this, **Hi, Ken!!** :-) )
I came from a disfunctional family. I married young in part to get away from the disfunction, in part to qualify for financial aid to college (parents wouldn't even sign the financial aid forms and I was determined to go), and in part because I was young, completely in love, and wanting the family I never had.
So we get married and move to attend the University of Idaho. End up in married student housing, where everone *else* was Mormon.
I found most of the Mormon couples to be vacuous, check-your-brain-at-the-door-and-pop-out-kids recently-returned missionaires who kept trying to sick the regular missionaries on me. We avoided them.
But then there were the ones that, to this day, I wonder why they were Mormons. Both the husband and wife were in school, they were intellectual, open-minded, goal-oriented, and had big plans for life. I figured that, like with any religion, there are all kinds. I didn't know that I just found the "fluke" croud.
So there's an institute on campus. One of my friends tells me about this great professor, Ken Clark, who teaches Mormon religion classes, but also philosophy and religion for the UofI. I take one of his classes. He was a PHENOMENAL professor! I start taking his other classes, including the institute classes. He did not teach them the way some of you on this board describe things like seminary or classes at BYU. He encouraged people to use their brains.
You know the part of Ken's story where he talks about teaching people about Joseph Smith baptising African-Americans? I think I was either there, or there was another incident that was very similar. (Ken, if you're out there, it was either the 92-93 or 93-94 academic year, on the UofI campus, and the "teacher" of the lesson that Sunday was a law student at UofI. I know the person's name but wouldn't want to put it out on the internet like that. Do you remember this one?) The "lesson" made an impression on me by the reaction of everyone in the class. Everyone, save the "intellectual fluke" croud, was ready to lynch the teacher. You would have thought he personally raped each and every person in the room, the way they were responding. It was scary-tense. Anyway, at the linger-longer after, our "clique" hung out together, wondering "what the heck is wrong with these people--it's documented by the church," while we got glares from everyone else. That was my first realization that, no, TSCC does NOT appreciate knowledge.
But, basically, I joined because 1) the emphasis on family--I didn't have one, I wanted one, and I loved the focus and attention of "family first;" 2) community--again, didn't have one growing up, and I was hanging out with the thinking crowd and enjoying the activities, hanging out at the institute building where I did my homework, visited with friends, did crafts, etc.; and 3) because of teachers like Ken Clark, I didn't think it mattered if I didn't drink the kool-aid. When the stake president did my baptism interview and asked if I believed JS was a "profit," I answered, "I don't think it matters whether he was or not--I believe in the values of the church and the importance of family and community and doing good works. Isn't that enough?" Apparently it was, or it was a slow year for baptisms or something, because they dunked me with that answer.
I didn't know how restrictive the church was, because here was this great guy named Ken Clark encouraging people to think and read and learn and grow...so this is what I thought the church was. It also helped that the bishop was a kind-hearted convert who just loved everyone and was the least judgemental person I've ever met.
I didn't care if TSCC was true or not...it was just one of those flukes in Mormondom that I fell into.
And, yes, I had my first child the summer in between my undergrad and grad program. Returned to school full-time four-weeks after having my baby. Planned to do grad school for toddler years, then work (as a teacher) while my kid was in preschool, thus never using child care.
After graduating we moved to another state, where we attended a "real" ward and saw that, no, it was just a fluke. We just stopped going. No one ever cared. No love bombing, no one ever tracking me down...I just completely fell off the radar.
Believe it or not, I am still very close friends with two of those families I met in college. Neither couple cares that I'm not a member of the church--well, they'd probably be happy if I went back, but they like me regardless. I still wonder why they are Mormon, lol!
Actually, I was "converted" by none other than Ken Clark. Yes, THE Ken Clark. (If you happen to be reading this, **Hi, Ken!!** :-) )
I came from a disfunctional family. I married young in part to get away from the disfunction, in part to qualify for financial aid to college (parents wouldn't even sign the financial aid forms and I was determined to go), and in part because I was young, completely in love, and wanting the family I never had.
So we get married and move to attend the University of Idaho. End up in married student housing, where everone *else* was Mormon.
I found most of the Mormon couples to be vacuous, check-your-brain-at-the-door-and-pop-out-kids recently-returned missionaires who kept trying to sick the regular missionaries on me. We avoided them.
But then there were the ones that, to this day, I wonder why they were Mormons. Both the husband and wife were in school, they were intellectual, open-minded, goal-oriented, and had big plans for life. I figured that, like with any religion, there are all kinds. I didn't know that I just found the "fluke" croud.
So there's an institute on campus. One of my friends tells me about this great professor, Ken Clark, who teaches Mormon religion classes, but also philosophy and religion for the UofI. I take one of his classes. He was a PHENOMENAL professor! I start taking his other classes, including the institute classes. He did not teach them the way some of you on this board describe things like seminary or classes at BYU. He encouraged people to use their brains.
You know the part of Ken's story where he talks about teaching people about Joseph Smith baptising African-Americans? I think I was either there, or there was another incident that was very similar. (Ken, if you're out there, it was either the 92-93 or 93-94 academic year, on the UofI campus, and the "teacher" of the lesson that Sunday was a law student at UofI. I know the person's name but wouldn't want to put it out on the internet like that. Do you remember this one?) The "lesson" made an impression on me by the reaction of everyone in the class. Everyone, save the "intellectual fluke" croud, was ready to lynch the teacher. You would have thought he personally raped each and every person in the room, the way they were responding. It was scary-tense. Anyway, at the linger-longer after, our "clique" hung out together, wondering "what the heck is wrong with these people--it's documented by the church," while we got glares from everyone else. That was my first realization that, no, TSCC does NOT appreciate knowledge.
But, basically, I joined because 1) the emphasis on family--I didn't have one, I wanted one, and I loved the focus and attention of "family first;" 2) community--again, didn't have one growing up, and I was hanging out with the thinking crowd and enjoying the activities, hanging out at the institute building where I did my homework, visited with friends, did crafts, etc.; and 3) because of teachers like Ken Clark, I didn't think it mattered if I didn't drink the kool-aid. When the stake president did my baptism interview and asked if I believed JS was a "profit," I answered, "I don't think it matters whether he was or not--I believe in the values of the church and the importance of family and community and doing good works. Isn't that enough?" Apparently it was, or it was a slow year for baptisms or something, because they dunked me with that answer.
I didn't know how restrictive the church was, because here was this great guy named Ken Clark encouraging people to think and read and learn and grow...so this is what I thought the church was. It also helped that the bishop was a kind-hearted convert who just loved everyone and was the least judgemental person I've ever met.
I didn't care if TSCC was true or not...it was just one of those flukes in Mormondom that I fell into.
And, yes, I had my first child the summer in between my undergrad and grad program. Returned to school full-time four-weeks after having my baby. Planned to do grad school for toddler years, then work (as a teacher) while my kid was in preschool, thus never using child care.
After graduating we moved to another state, where we attended a "real" ward and saw that, no, it was just a fluke. We just stopped going. No one ever cared. No love bombing, no one ever tracking me down...I just completely fell off the radar.
Believe it or not, I am still very close friends with two of those families I met in college. Neither couple cares that I'm not a member of the church--well, they'd probably be happy if I went back, but they like me regardless. I still wonder why they are Mormon, lol!
I was baptized at 8, so no. But since I was 10 or so and gradually introduced to TSCC doctrines, I always had doubts.. Often I would think: "Really? This seems like BS. Well, let's see what's next." At temple time, it was obvious. I knew this stuff was total BS.
My BIL probably. Husbands sister said she'd only marry a Mormon, so he converted. He professes to believe, but has never been active and does not follow word of wisdom, so me thinks it wasn't for real...
I converted in April of last year. I knew it was "fake." I'll try to explain why I got involved:
The LDS was created by a group of families whose members have been propounding fictions all over the world for centuries. They have cultivated cultures and cults from Caledonia to Chaldea.
Joseph Smith & Co.'s spiel is a counterfeit, but it's a legitimate counterfeit. The whole operation of seeding and growing the Mormon church has been carried out with authorization from the highest source of power on this earth. Now, since it is a big no-no to name that power plainly, I'll just call it the Rhodostaurotikon. The "Good People."
Anyway, for reasons having to do with work, I got a tiny bit involved with "the people" in early 2012. Things got heavy and I kind of flipped out. I thought that becoming a Mormon might be a way to signal to the People that I'm down with their program, I'm obedient, and I don't wish to cause them any problems.
I was planning to go to the temple and take the blood oaths. Then I found out that they did away with the oaths years ago. Big disappointment. The skull-crushing boredom of sacrament service and other activities took a toll, as did the alienation of feeling like I was the only guy in the ward who knew the church was "true" based on real facts, and not the hypnotic suggestion of Moroni's Promise.
Quit going a few weeks ago. I'm currently getting the "We miss you" messages and I feel guilty. The people in the church were nice to me and I feel like a jerk. Still, I can't see spending the rest of my life being bored to tears for little tangible reward.
May the gods forgive me for what I have done.
The LDS was created by a group of families whose members have been propounding fictions all over the world for centuries. They have cultivated cultures and cults from Caledonia to Chaldea.
Joseph Smith & Co.'s spiel is a counterfeit, but it's a legitimate counterfeit. The whole operation of seeding and growing the Mormon church has been carried out with authorization from the highest source of power on this earth. Now, since it is a big no-no to name that power plainly, I'll just call it the Rhodostaurotikon. The "Good People."
Anyway, for reasons having to do with work, I got a tiny bit involved with "the people" in early 2012. Things got heavy and I kind of flipped out. I thought that becoming a Mormon might be a way to signal to the People that I'm down with their program, I'm obedient, and I don't wish to cause them any problems.
I was planning to go to the temple and take the blood oaths. Then I found out that they did away with the oaths years ago. Big disappointment. The skull-crushing boredom of sacrament service and other activities took a toll, as did the alienation of feeling like I was the only guy in the ward who knew the church was "true" based on real facts, and not the hypnotic suggestion of Moroni's Promise.
Quit going a few weeks ago. I'm currently getting the "We miss you" messages and I feel guilty. The people in the church were nice to me and I feel like a jerk. Still, I can't see spending the rest of my life being bored to tears for little tangible reward.
May the gods forgive me for what I have done.
The church is a fraud. "Good People" counterfeiters.. WTF are you talking about? Pass me that nice herb from Colorado.
My my...there really is a Rhodostauroikon
http://images.mid-day.com/2012/nov/Pink-bull.jpg
Gulabi Saand, the Pink Bull
http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/rohitvats/3002/64221/matru-ki-bijlee-ka-mandola-lets-decode-the-mystery-of-gulabi-bhains.html
http://images.mid-day.com/2012/nov/Pink-bull.jpg
Gulabi Saand, the Pink Bull
http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/rohitvats/3002/64221/matru-ki-bijlee-ka-mandola-lets-decode-the-mystery-of-gulabi-bhains.html
I converted because the people were so kind. I felt in my heart that the church wasn't true, but I tried to convince myself that it was. I'm a very new Mormon and already leaving because I can't believe in my heart that the church is true. The more research I do, the more I don't want to continue. I am praying (because I am still a Christian) that the transition will be a smooth one.
Long story. Very long story. Most of it is on the bio board under "Before the Sanhedrin" and more is in my posts, over 1000.
Anyway, I never believed and never testified: "I know the church is true".
Anyway, I never believed and never testified: "I know the church is true".
Folks, it is impossible to "convert" knowing it is fake. A person may join the ranks of membership, and produce lip-service required for admittance to otherwise prohibited buildings, akin to a verbal key card to the temple. However yhe very word "conversion" as spoken of in the Bible suggests a fundamental change of the inner person at one's very core of personal belief system.
I belive what the Original Poster really asked was "Did anyone knowingly ignore or outright betray their personal sense of truth to join anyway for some other personal benefit?" It's kind of like asking the question, "Does lying to a liar cancel out any wrongdoing that results from the original lie?"
I think a great many of us are here, myself included, because any benefit gained as a result of the decision to remain under the conrol of a demontratably false belief system was far outweighed by its cost. For me, the hypocrisy was draining me of everything that makes life worth living. it's far easier to have only one set of books when doing one's personal accounting.
I belive what the Original Poster really asked was "Did anyone knowingly ignore or outright betray their personal sense of truth to join anyway for some other personal benefit?" It's kind of like asking the question, "Does lying to a liar cancel out any wrongdoing that results from the original lie?"
I think a great many of us are here, myself included, because any benefit gained as a result of the decision to remain under the conrol of a demontratably false belief system was far outweighed by its cost. For me, the hypocrisy was draining me of everything that makes life worth living. it's far easier to have only one set of books when doing one's personal accounting.
You could be completely amoral about it. I just wanted to know about other people who joined the LDS church and didn't believe a word of it.
That is correct. Initially it did not seem "going along with it" would've been such a big deal. But I didn't realize the toll the hypocrisy would take, little by little.
I got baptised with big doubts, I didn't complete believe but I also felt the pressure from the missionaries, what if I didn't believe and it was true and I'd go to hell. I liked the BoM and told the mishies that ok, it could be divine but I didn't buy JS story. You'd be surprised how many people don't complete buy the story but the church seems OK.
Like MovingOn I came from a less than ideal home, married young and wanted a family of my own that would be so different from the home I grew up in. The picture perfect families, the idea of the community, the great youth programs, and all the missionaries sold me was what got me baptised. I went against my own instinct that it was too soon and I couldn't answer all their baptism questions. I pushed the baptism date as much as I could and even cancelled once but at the end the pressure got to me. And I did eat, I mean, I did join.
Like MovingOn I came from a less than ideal home, married young and wanted a family of my own that would be so different from the home I grew up in. The picture perfect families, the idea of the community, the great youth programs, and all the missionaries sold me was what got me baptised. I went against my own instinct that it was too soon and I couldn't answer all their baptism questions. I pushed the baptism date as much as I could and even cancelled once but at the end the pressure got to me. And I did eat, I mean, I did join.