I’m not a Mormon, but I’ve been curious about the LDS church for a couple of years now. I even visited SLC last year to see the “Mormon mecca”. I’m not so much fascinated by the Mormon religion, as I am by Mormons themselves.

Mormons are like these happy, shiny, clean living, jello eating Stepford people. I’m also impressed by how social they are… at least with other Mormons. I really like this social aspect, and I’ve thought about joining the LDS church just for that reason. Though I’ve read enough about Mormon beliefs to know I could never believe in the BoM.

I’m just wondering if it’s possible to be a “pedestrian” member of the church without the overhead. My life is too busy to get caught up in “callings”. I don’t want to be Mormon priesthood holder and I’m certainly not going to give 10% of my salary to the church. I recently moved to a new area where I don’t know anyone, and I’m just looking at this as a way to make friends.

Any advice.

I'm not sure what you want is possible. If you start going to church as a non-member, you'll find yourself with tons of "friends" immediately. However, they're usually not really friends, they just want to get you to get baptized. If you don't get baptized, those people will eventually become discouraged and drift away.

If you want to get baptized, you'll have to pass a "baptism interview" where you'll be expected to say you believe the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that 15 old white businessmen are God's spokesmen, and that a pedophile con-man named Joseph Smith was the prophet that God used to restore his one true church.

You can always lie, and get baptized just for the social aspects, but be aware that there will always be something about your life that they'll be wanting to "fix." Do you drink (it doesn't matter how much or in what setting)? They'll want to "fix" that. Are you married? If not, they'll want to "fix" that too (it doesn't matter whether you WANT to get married). Oh, and don't even THINK about having sex outside of marriage. That's a "sin" that can get you excommunicated. You've already said you don't plan on paying tithing and that you're going to be turning down all the callings they're going to be offering you. They'll want to "fix" that too. About a year after you were baptized, they'll also want to make sure you go to the temple, where you take part in a bunch of strange, masonic rituals complete with secret handshakes and code-words.

Joining the Mormon church may seem like an easy path to friendship, but my advice is to go out and find some real friends, who will accept you for the way you are! In the end, you'll be much happier that way!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2014 11:41AM by nickname.

Personally I wouldn't bother. Besides trying to fix you, the relationships will not be real. If you don't believe what they believe and they know it, it's a gap that can't be bridged.

I would never have voluntarily put myself through this.

How you choose to live your life is entirely up to you & I’m sure there are many Mormons who stay in the church for the reason you describe, but, those people are living a lie, they don’t believe but they MUST pretend to believe or they will no longer be accepted & shunning is no fun at all. My ex-wife is going through that right now. Is that what you want, to live a lie simply to have some kind of social life that will inevitably revolve around a corrupt business organization posing as a church for financial gain? Surely you have greater integrity than that?
Think again my friend, choose to have a weird social life lived on their terms a life based on appearances rather than truth or, look in another direction. Believe it or not there are many millions of people living well-adjusted socially active lives without having to cope with the hangs ups of Mormonism. What kind of social life is it when your newfound so-called friends decide how you must live?

You can just go to church and not get baptized if you like it that much. They will be working on you to get baptized. Just tell them that you don't believe in the Book of Mormon and they might lay off.

I should add that if it were me I would not under any circumstances attend or support the church in any way. It is based on false claims and fantasy that you must beleive. If for some reason you don't beleive it is because there is something wrong with YOU that keeps you from feeling the spirit. I was not happy in the church, I was not happy being told lies, I was not happy being guilted, and I was not happy giving my life to them.
Do what you feel is best for you but for me I would not join the LDS.

Just don't.

The people in the church and the missionaries will be nice to you until you get baptized and confirmed. LDS members receive a great deal of pleasure from converting others (I think it self-reassures them). But once you are in, all the fun fades away and all the obligations start. If you miss church one Sunday, they will call you. You will, for sure, receive a calling. You will, for sure, be asked by the bishop to pay tithing.

I do agree with you that mormons are generally friendlier than most people in public. However, in private, I'd say mormon friendships are less real than most people's.

I always tell people who are researching the church this: ask the missionaries to see the little spiral book they carry in their pockets. You will see that they make goals of how many people they will baptize,just like any salesperson.

"I do agree with you that mormons are generally friendlier than most people in public. However, in private, I'd say mormon friendships are less real than most people's."

I'd say that mormons are generally friendlier when people are watching them in church settings. They are generally less friendly in their everyday non-church activities. I've travelled all over, and Utah has some of the LEAST friendly people around.

You could try it out (without getting baptized), but I'm not sure that the church is a decent place for making real friends. If you just attend the meetings, some individuals will take a superficial interest in you, but that won't necessarily turn into any kind of real friendship. Most relationships are formed between those that serve together in primary presidencies, in YM/YW, etc..., but many of those "solid" friendships also dissolve once the individuals are released from their callings. When I was growing up in the church, we had lots of fun activities that provided good settings for actually making friends, even for non-members, but most wards haven't had a decent activity in the last decade...the church has changed, which is probably a big reason why so many are now allowing themselves to doubt...they're not getting anything out of the church anymore.

Utah has one of the highest rates of depression and suicide and is rated by metal america as the 50 out of 50 in mental health in the US. It may looking shiny on the outside, but don't be fooled by the veneer.

With that said, I've seen a number of people do what you with some level of success. The culture of every ward is different and it will depend greatly on the particular ward you fit in. If you don't literally believe everything then the church has much less power over you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2014 12:10PM by The Oncoming Storm - bc.

you know, a lot of people on this board thought they had real friends in the Mormon church

but after telling their friends that they don't believe in the book of Mormon, after quitting callings, after not paying tithing (after trying to behave as you described) those friendships were effectively dead

i'm not talking about people that have known each other for a matter of months - i'm talking in some cases almost life long 'friendships' dissolving in an instant

oh sure, they'll fawn over you until they can dunk you and then once you're on the books you're just dead weight to them - keep in mind that ALL active Mormons are involved in one way or another in some kind of leadership role - they ALL feel at least a little bit of responsibility for each other's beliefs - if you join their ward and drop their beliefs they will pretty much all take it personally (even if ever so slightly)

but if you decide to find this out for yourself do keep us posted

There are lots of churches with great social opportunities. Where I live the UU church is where you go to meet people. Plus that church wouldn't care what you believe or don't believe.

Join a country club, it would seem to have what your looking for, but cheaper.

If you want to be a 'pedestrian' member of a religious community, you could do much better than Mormonism.

The shiny happy people thing is fake. From a very early age, members are conditioned to be concerned with outward appearances. The South Park Mormon episode where the Mormon family says “our faces are painted” is an accurate parody. And Mormons will almost always have an ulterior motive to convert you, and unless you convert, you are in a lower caste.

The LDS church is about as "binary" as any group I have encountered. To most Mormons, you are either in or out, and people who try to do as you suggest are minimized and to an extent ostracized.

"Temple worthiness" is a huge part of Mormonism. Those with it are "real" Mormons. Those without it are regarded as lesser people and are a never-ending conversion project.

I'm sure most exmos on this board have experienced the perennial spouse of a TBM who won't convert. From time to time someone will say "I can do it" and will make a full court press to get them baptized. You can expect that as a social Mormon.

But as others have pointed out, these people are your friends only so long as they think they can make you a notch on their baptism belt. If you ever make clear it isn't going to happen, they'll drop you in a heartbeat because they have more important things to do, like work on someone who might actually be baptized.

Also consider that (if you're not currently involved in a relationship), you might fall for a TBM lady... and while you might not be so interested in callings, tithe, temple, priesthood, and everything else that comes along with being an active mormon, for her it will be essential. In many cases, more important than _you_. If you go along for the sake of the relationship, you start "stretching a rubber band" that will eventually snap back when you start eventually feeling you can no longer live against your beliefs, or along your disbeliefs. In most cases there is no way to go backwards in a controlled fashion and heartbreak will ensue.

I don't recommend.

No the Mormon church does not allow what you are describing. You might be able to come close if you attend but don't get baptized. I have seen some people who do that over the years. There was one lady in a branch on my mission who lived in the same building where the church was and attended without getting baptized. This was a branch with only 10 members, however, so when they are that small people are more willing to accept you as you are and on your terms. In a big ward in the US I'm not sure how many friends you will really make. If you do get baptized they will want to give you the Aaronic Priesthood almost immediately. Then you will be able to bless and pass the sacrament with all the teenagers. They will want you to get the Melchizedek priesthood after one year. They probably won't want you to go to the temple for a few years if you aren't married or old. There is to much risk you might have sex. You will be subjected to regular interviews with the bishop where he will pry into your beliefs and your sexual practices. During these interviews he will also try to convince you to start paying tithing. As long as you aren't following all the rules you will always be a project. Other churches may not be as over the top friendly as the Mormons when you first attend but if you put in some effort to make friends there I think in the long term it would be a more satisfying experience.

Just be advised that exactly the same result can be had by becoming one of the bright and shiny Moonies. You can even buy into much more direct LDS-style doctrine without the mandatory Mormon prevarications by becoming Scientologist.

Yeah. Oh, to be Mormon.

Join a social club, but not the invasive mormon church....

You have to promise 10% before being baptized. You can't just attend. They will be inviting you to be baptized after the first meeting with the missionaries.
Once baptized you will be given the priesthood within a month or so. Then you do whatever they tell you to do. You'll be putting in 10 hours a week within a couplle months

They will only accept you if you exactly become one of those happy, shiny, clean living, jello eating Stepford people. Yes they'll be friendly at first, just to see if you are willing. They'll cajole you and needle you, but if you don't conform exactly, they'll gossip about you, shun you and will absolutely not accept you.

Do you want to pay 10% of your income before taxes for the rest of your life?

Do you want to wear weird underwear for the rest of your life?

Do you want to breed children for Mormonism?

Do you want to spend all your free time in free service to Mormonism?

Do you want to give unquestioning Obedience to Mormon leaders, no matter how crazy the request?

If so, go ahead and join. These and many other experiences will be in store for you.

You want what they're selling. That's ok. It's very appealing.

But they are selling it. It isn't free. It costs 10% of your gross income every year and all of your free time they choose to ask you for. The degree to which you refuse to pay directly correlates to the degree of product they won't deliver.

Don't kid yourself that you can work the system and score more than you're willing to pay. You're not that clever and they are professional businessmen. They didn't just fall off the turnip truck.

If you are willing to accept that truth (regardless of how willing you are to compromise your ethics by entering this new relationship with your new "friends" by lying to them,) go for it.

The Book of Mormon is a fraud, yet Mormon leaders insist on making demands on members based on the alleged veracity of the book.

Utterly ridiculous!

There is no Hebrew/Semitic DNA in native Americans before Columbus.
The people mentioned in the BoM never existed, it is all fraud and fantasy.

and although I didn't get married (his family made him back out -- long story) the sister missionaries were still trying to convert me:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,588661,588751#msg-588751


Dear Sister "A" and Sister "B":

Thanks for at least trying to answer some of my questions. I am a bit disappointed that you weren't able to answer all of them. My mistake was is thinking that the LDS / Mormon church was just another church --- it isn't. Mormonism is a complete way of life--much more akin to Islam (not in theology, but in scope) than a standard basic Christian denomination (like Baptists, Methodists, etc) . Try to look at this from my point of view. You move to a new place, don't know anyone, and a friend suggests going to church to meet new people. You have heard of the Mormon church but you don't really know much about it in detail, so you decide to look it up. What you find is a lot of very strange things, so you go straight to the horse's mouth to find out what the straight story is.

I think you are going to have a difficult time trying to get people to join your church. It didn't take me but two or three weeks to find out about the history of Mormonism, how the LDS church got started, inconsistencies between the LDS official story of Joseph Smith's life and the actual historical evidence, different theology, legacy of racism, peculiar practices and so on. When I tried to ask you about these things, you seemed shocked that I would ask about them or didn't seem to know what I was talking about. Here's a sample:

** Misspellings, bad grammar and plagiarism (i.e. whole passages copied from the Bible) in the Book of Mormon

** Smith's neighbours in New York gave evidence that he was con artist, grifter, and he was actually prosecuted for fraud and disorderly conduct

** The few people who actually dared to look in the box that supposedly contained the ancient gold plates reported seeing nothing but bricks or sand

** A close friend of Joseph Smith named Peter Ingersoll said that Smith told him that he found some white sand in a creek bed after a rainstorm while walking home and wrapped in up in his work shirt. When his family asked him to see it, he jokingly told him in a grave manner that it was the "ancient gold bible from Canada" and all who tried to see it would fall dead

** Smith "translated" the plates by remote viewing -- he put his head in a hat with magic seer stones (commonly used for divination like birch rods) and dictated the text

** Smith used polygamy as a ruse to satisfy his sexual desires and was almost castrated by a lynch mob

** Mormons are not Christians (as they claim to be) nor are they monotheistic. The Mormon pantheon acknowledges many past, present, and future Gods, and one of the basic tenets of the faith says that humans can become gods themselves ("As Man is, God once was. As God is, Man may become...")

** Mormon temple rituals, robes, and undergarments are no longer secret and details are easily obtainable online.

** According to Mormon theology, when humans were spirits in heaven they fought over whether or not human beings would have free will. One third were in favour, one third were against, and one third were neutral. Those that were in favour became humans on Earth, those against became demons, and the neutral or less valiant third were allowed to become humans but were "cursed" with dark skin.

I have no axe to grind here and I have nothing against Mormons. I was just trying to find out what the truth was. I've been to Nauvoo, IL and I know that Mormons were horribly persecuted for their religion and faced extermination and ethnic cleansing. No one will ever really know Smith really saw or what what actually was (if anything) revealed to him. Was he a flawed conflicted man who was actually chosen by God or did he make the whole thing up? Why the ruse of the gold plates? Did he feel that no one would believe him if he had nothing tangible?

You asked me to pray about the veracity of the Book of Mormon. After speaking with you the other night I was flipping channels for something to watch while eating dinner. A western movie was on Showtime about settlers crossing Utah on their way to California so I decided to watch it. This movie was about the Mountain Meadows Massacre in 1857--a wagon train was attacked by Mormons and the survivors were shot in the back of the head execution style. Only those eight years old or younger were allowed to live (and of course were to be raised as Mormons). I took this "revelation" as my answer. I probably think too much and ask too many questions to join your church.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2014 12:49PM by anybody.

If you want to know what JS was doing to get other folks riled, read Wife No. 19. She writes about the time period and it is an eye-opener. Some of that persecution JS brought upon the families in Illinois and Missouri.

Knock yourself out.

Your joking right? You have serious problems if u think their lifestyle looks appealing.

You'll find other people who are doing that very thing on this forum:

http://www.newordermormon.org/

On this board, you are going to get more people who have left the mormon church, or who are stuck in it and don't like it. (I fit the last category.)

But I can watch them on TV or visit Busch Gardens to see them. I don't have to dig a hole in the Kalahari Desert and eat bugs and scorpions.

It sounds like you already have a pretty clear idea of what to expect should you join the Mormon church. Stepford people is what you will be getting and that's fine if that's what you want. Obviously some people want that, even need that, and it's not for anyone to judge if it's right for you and your wife.

I was a convert and married a 5th generation Mormon. When we discovered that the Mormon church wasn't what it claimed to be, we didn't want to just run, at least initially. We had friends, and obviously family, all the social aspects, and so just cutting and running sounded traumatizing and impossible. And not to just us, but to our kids as well. So we did what many members do and tried to put on a happy and believing face and picked and chose the few things we did believe. In other words, we became "Cafeteria Mormons." We couldn't in good conscience hold callings as we would be required to teach things we no longer believed. We were pressured to convert our non-Mormon friends, and we couldn't do that either. We still were expected and pressured to pay tithing and fast offerings. We were expected to wear garments (google that). I could go on and on about all the things that's required but others have done that already. Long story short, we decided one Sunday that a enough was enough and we walked out and have never looked back. Our marriage, lifestyle, raising our kids - everything - is so much more rewarding now. We don't need a church to tell us how to live every aspect of our lives. And it really is EVERY aspect.

Do what you want but make sure you do it knowing what you're getting into first. Don't rush into it and do some research first. You'd regret going in now when so many others are walking out.

Good luck.

Be sure to set aside a Saturday to help with cleaning the church. When you join, you will be expected/assigned your cleaning duties.

Once you get it on you, it is a bitch to get off.