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One my old TBM friends on faceybook posted this link about Christ in the Yucatan.
Has anybody else seen this?
http://www.yucatan-revealed.com/index.html
Has anybody else seen this?
http://www.yucatan-revealed.com/index.html
My mission was to the Yucatan in '84-'85. We were taught to present the BoM as a history of the residents' ancestors. It was a remarkably "successful" hook at the time.
I've been back there many times, have become an amateur "archeologist", and just slap my forehead in disbelief at what I taught (and let myself believe).
Ironically, my mission was a huge, formative period in my life that I can't help but look at "mostly" fondly because of the people, history, and beauty.
Of course, I'm blocking out all the church bs and diseases.
I've been back there many times, have become an amateur "archeologist", and just slap my forehead in disbelief at what I taught (and let myself believe).
Ironically, my mission was a huge, formative period in my life that I can't help but look at "mostly" fondly because of the people, history, and beauty.
Of course, I'm blocking out all the church bs and diseases.
Thomas Stuart Ferguson. About all one needs to know, although I would welcome a winter's gig as the local Yucatan Jesus, wishing visitors well and sipping Margaritas between the palms.
My TBM mother and brother went on an LDS tour in Tulum back in 2010. I am not sure if it was exactly this tour: http://www.yucatan-revealed.com/Christ-In-Tulum.html, but they confirmed that it was the same information. My BS sensors went off when I read the excerpt below from the site, so I attempted to contact the authors through their Contact Us and Contact Keith (under About Us) functions to request the published source(s) for those claims. My request was respectful and could have easily been interpreted as coming from a TBM, since I mentioned that I did not want to repeat the claims without being able to cite a published source. Needless to say, I never received a response from either contact request.
"The Temple Of The Descending God was built in alignment with both the morning star, or the planet Venus, and the sun so as to mark April 6th as the birthday of the Descending God.
On that day Venus can be seen rising into the night sky directly over the door of the temple and sunlight forms a brilliant star that can be seen only on that day.
This is Extremely significant because Mayan Gods were known by the day on which they were born. And April 6th is the birthday of the Descending God.
It is interesting to note that the Mormon prophet Joseph Smith, who lived in the state of New York, published in 1830 a translated ancient record which told of a personal visit by Jesus Christ to the Americas shortly after His resurrection. In addition, he identified April 6th as the birthday of Jesus Christ. He also identified the ancient name of the city of Zion as being Zama. Zama was the original name for the city of Tulum."
[Edited to replace with older, more complete post on the same topic.]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 11:58AM by facsimile3.
"The Temple Of The Descending God was built in alignment with both the morning star, or the planet Venus, and the sun so as to mark April 6th as the birthday of the Descending God.
On that day Venus can be seen rising into the night sky directly over the door of the temple and sunlight forms a brilliant star that can be seen only on that day.
This is Extremely significant because Mayan Gods were known by the day on which they were born. And April 6th is the birthday of the Descending God.
It is interesting to note that the Mormon prophet Joseph Smith, who lived in the state of New York, published in 1830 a translated ancient record which told of a personal visit by Jesus Christ to the Americas shortly after His resurrection. In addition, he identified April 6th as the birthday of Jesus Christ. He also identified the ancient name of the city of Zion as being Zama. Zama was the original name for the city of Tulum."
[Edited to replace with older, more complete post on the same topic.]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 11:58AM by facsimile3.
facsimile3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The Temple Of The Descending God was built in
> alignment with both the morning star, or the
> planet Venus, and the sun so as to mark April 6th
> as the birthday of the Descending God.
>
> On that day Venus can be seen rising into the
> night sky directly over the door of the temple and
> sunlight forms a brilliant star that can be seen
> only on that day.
High school science exposes this as BS. Venus is a PLANET.
It doesn't rise or set at the same time each year. Even the
word "planete," which the Greeks used, means wanderer--the
planets were the "stars" that wandered among the fixed stars
and were not in a fixed place in the night sky. The Sun could
rise and shine in a certain direction on April 6, but Venus is
in a different part of the sky from one April 6 to another.
> This is Extremely significant because Mayan Gods
> were known by the day on which they were born. And
> April 6th is the birthday of the Descending God.
Sorry, the Mayan calendar didn't work that way.
> It is interesting to note that the Mormon prophet
> Joseph Smith, who lived in the state of New York,
> published in 1830 a translated ancient record
> which told of a personal visit by Jesus Christ to
> the Americas shortly after His resurrection. In
> addition, he identified April 6th as the birthday
> of Jesus Christ.
This is not true either. The idea that April 6th is Jesus's
birthday comes from the statement in the D&C that the Church
was founded 1830 years after the birth of Jesus (meaning in
the YEAR 1830). Actually if you believe the Gospels, Jesus
was born sometime BEFORE 4 B.C. That's about the time when
Herod died--you know, the guy who supposedly killed all the
male babies when trying to catch Jesus? Anyway, much later
people took the passage in the D&C too literally and said that
it meant Jesus was born on April 6th.
> He also identified the ancient
> name of the city of Zion as being Zama. Zama was
> the original name for the city of Tulum."
The ancient name for Tulum very well may have been "Zama."
However I know of no place where Joseph Smith identified the
city of Zion as being "Zama." After extensive searching I'm
beginning to think this claim is simply a Faith-Promoting
Rumor that was invented after the fact.
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The Temple Of The Descending God was built in
> alignment with both the morning star, or the
> planet Venus, and the sun so as to mark April 6th
> as the birthday of the Descending God.
>
> On that day Venus can be seen rising into the
> night sky directly over the door of the temple and
> sunlight forms a brilliant star that can be seen
> only on that day.
High school science exposes this as BS. Venus is a PLANET.
It doesn't rise or set at the same time each year. Even the
word "planete," which the Greeks used, means wanderer--the
planets were the "stars" that wandered among the fixed stars
and were not in a fixed place in the night sky. The Sun could
rise and shine in a certain direction on April 6, but Venus is
in a different part of the sky from one April 6 to another.
> This is Extremely significant because Mayan Gods
> were known by the day on which they were born. And
> April 6th is the birthday of the Descending God.
Sorry, the Mayan calendar didn't work that way.
> It is interesting to note that the Mormon prophet
> Joseph Smith, who lived in the state of New York,
> published in 1830 a translated ancient record
> which told of a personal visit by Jesus Christ to
> the Americas shortly after His resurrection. In
> addition, he identified April 6th as the birthday
> of Jesus Christ.
This is not true either. The idea that April 6th is Jesus's
birthday comes from the statement in the D&C that the Church
was founded 1830 years after the birth of Jesus (meaning in
the YEAR 1830). Actually if you believe the Gospels, Jesus
was born sometime BEFORE 4 B.C. That's about the time when
Herod died--you know, the guy who supposedly killed all the
male babies when trying to catch Jesus? Anyway, much later
people took the passage in the D&C too literally and said that
it meant Jesus was born on April 6th.
> He also identified the ancient
> name of the city of Zion as being Zama. Zama was
> the original name for the city of Tulum."
The ancient name for Tulum very well may have been "Zama."
However I know of no place where Joseph Smith identified the
city of Zion as being "Zama." After extensive searching I'm
beginning to think this claim is simply a Faith-Promoting
Rumor that was invented after the fact.
I took a tour of Tulum once, beautiful place BTW, and noticed one of the other tours was lead by a guy wearing a BYU hat.
Interesting that Venus representation ' morning star ' is the name the King James translators turned into the proper noun and name for Satan ... Lucifer .
Wow. 30 years later they are still spinning the yarn.
This "phenomenon" is notably absent from Wikipedia. Maybe an LDS person could get this up past the reviewers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulum
I wonder if they still say that the deer are "cattle." It's possible because you can't even get close enough to see them anymore. They could say the entire temple ceremony is documented on the interior and no LDS person would be the wiser.
It was super impressive back in the 80's when you could go all the way to doorways of every temple. They were lightly protected by sticks tied together. You could stick your head in and see the amazing frescos of "Lamanites" playing, killing each other, and frolicking with the cattle.
Very faith promoting!
This "phenomenon" is notably absent from Wikipedia. Maybe an LDS person could get this up past the reviewers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulum
I wonder if they still say that the deer are "cattle." It's possible because you can't even get close enough to see them anymore. They could say the entire temple ceremony is documented on the interior and no LDS person would be the wiser.
It was super impressive back in the 80's when you could go all the way to doorways of every temple. They were lightly protected by sticks tied together. You could stick your head in and see the amazing frescos of "Lamanites" playing, killing each other, and frolicking with the cattle.
Very faith promoting!
Mark E. Peterson, "Christ In America" (1970)
http://ldspamphlets.org/Christ_in_America.htm
###############################################################
THE Great White God of ancient America still lives! The divine personage that emerges from the discoveries and writings of archaeologists and historians now stands out as an unassailable reality. The mystery that so long veiled the puzzling traditions of the natives is swept aside by newly found but centuries old records that open a widely expanded view of this divinity and his labors in the Western Hemisphere.
There was such a God!
According to the findings of scholars, he came to America long before the time of Columbus.
He taught the ancients his true religion, raised some of their dead, healed many of their sick, taught new and more productive methods of agriculture, and established a government of equality and peace.
He came suddenly and left suddenly in a supernatural manner.
The ancients regarded him as the Creator, come to earth in bodily form...
http://ldspamphlets.org/Christ_in_America.htm
###############################################################
THE Great White God of ancient America still lives! The divine personage that emerges from the discoveries and writings of archaeologists and historians now stands out as an unassailable reality. The mystery that so long veiled the puzzling traditions of the natives is swept aside by newly found but centuries old records that open a widely expanded view of this divinity and his labors in the Western Hemisphere.
There was such a God!
According to the findings of scholars, he came to America long before the time of Columbus.
He taught the ancients his true religion, raised some of their dead, healed many of their sick, taught new and more productive methods of agriculture, and established a government of equality and peace.
He came suddenly and left suddenly in a supernatural manner.
The ancients regarded him as the Creator, come to earth in bodily form...
Wow. I remember that pamphlet and it reminds me why most members assume that there is so much evidence for the BoM. What a bunch of sh*t!
I'm always suspicious of anything which uses the term "The Ancients" (appropriately capitalized ;-)
Which ancients? How old - are they really ancient ? What did they know ? What was their infant mortality and what percentage of women died in childbirth? Did they boil their water before drinking it?
You get the idea... Just being Ancient means nothing.
Tom in Paris
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 09:59AM by Soft Machine.
Which ancients? How old - are they really ancient ? What did they know ? What was their infant mortality and what percentage of women died in childbirth? Did they boil their water before drinking it?
You get the idea... Just being Ancient means nothing.
Tom in Paris
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 09:59AM by Soft Machine.
I'd say if christ ventured to the Yucatan it was probably for some R&R and not to preach the word of god
"He also identified the ancient name of the city of Zion as being Zama."
Did JS really say that? A cursory search of the Googles and lds.org turned up nothing. How many different speculated locations of "Zion" can one religion have?
Did JS really say that? A cursory search of the Googles and lds.org turned up nothing. How many different speculated locations of "Zion" can one religion have?
Holy cow. If I had read this as a TBM, I would have completely fallen for it and seen it as proof that the Church was twoo.
If Jesus visited the Yucatan then basketball at the ward houses has a whole different meaning.
I thought it turned out to be Bigfoot.
I'll be going on a few archeological field trips with the univeristy next semester. I'll be sure to let the professor know all these interesting details...
See this pdf article. It explains about Venus and the diving God.
http://www.mesoweb.com/pari/publications/RT02/Miller1974-OCR.pdf
Mormon travel tours in Meso-America promote all kinds of BS.
http://www.mesoweb.com/pari/publications/RT02/Miller1974-OCR.pdf
Mormon travel tours in Meso-America promote all kinds of BS.
By the way, Tulum was established around 1200 A.D. -- That
makes it about 800 years AFTER the last Nephite supposedly bit
the dust.
makes it about 800 years AFTER the last Nephite supposedly bit
the dust.
doesn't yucatan have a club med ?
Our tour guide Helaman could give Erich von Däniken a run for his money...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7WRGjAIvdI
######################################################
http://www.helamantours.com/
"Helaman Tours is owned and operated by Helaman Petlacalco. Helaman is of Mayan and Aztec descent and has been sharing his insight and love of these cultures with thousands of people who have visited the Yucatan over the past 28 years. 10 years ago Helaman started his own company called Helaman Tours to focus on the LDS perspective of the archeological sites. He was one of the first two tour guides to offer LDS tours in Cancun. As you can see he has a lot of experience.
HE IS THE TOUR GUIDE THAT YOU NEED TO ENRICH YOUR VACATION.
He has served 3 times as Branch President, 4 times in the High Council and taught seminary for 6 years. Thru these callings, especially while teaching seminary, he gained a greater love and knowledge of the scriptures and the language of the ancient symbols on the Mayan temples.
He is not just a tour guide wanting your money. He is a dedicated active member of the church who is willing to share with you his knowledge of the teachings of the Book of Mormon and Mayan history.
Helaman is grateful to be joined by his brother Lemuel, son Nephi and son-in-law Carlos, both of whom are returned missionaries, who also share a love of the gospel and a desire to teach. All four of them are licensed and authorized by the Mexican government .
Contact us for an unforgettable, testimony building trip into the Book of Mormon..."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 07:03PM by anybody.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7WRGjAIvdI
######################################################
http://www.helamantours.com/
"Helaman Tours is owned and operated by Helaman Petlacalco. Helaman is of Mayan and Aztec descent and has been sharing his insight and love of these cultures with thousands of people who have visited the Yucatan over the past 28 years. 10 years ago Helaman started his own company called Helaman Tours to focus on the LDS perspective of the archeological sites. He was one of the first two tour guides to offer LDS tours in Cancun. As you can see he has a lot of experience.
HE IS THE TOUR GUIDE THAT YOU NEED TO ENRICH YOUR VACATION.
He has served 3 times as Branch President, 4 times in the High Council and taught seminary for 6 years. Thru these callings, especially while teaching seminary, he gained a greater love and knowledge of the scriptures and the language of the ancient symbols on the Mayan temples.
He is not just a tour guide wanting your money. He is a dedicated active member of the church who is willing to share with you his knowledge of the teachings of the Book of Mormon and Mayan history.
Helaman is grateful to be joined by his brother Lemuel, son Nephi and son-in-law Carlos, both of whom are returned missionaries, who also share a love of the gospel and a desire to teach. All four of them are licensed and authorized by the Mexican government .
Contact us for an unforgettable, testimony building trip into the Book of Mormon..."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 07:03PM by anybody.
This is classic.
He has to be one of the guys that I met back in '84/'85. He's been at Tulum since '83.
Would it surprise anyone if the April 6 mystery has been solved?
Helaman!!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 07:44PM by kingsolomonsmines.
He has to be one of the guys that I met back in '84/'85. He's been at Tulum since '83.
Would it surprise anyone if the April 6 mystery has been solved?
Helaman!!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2014 07:44PM by kingsolomonsmines.
Why did his parents name his brother after the bad guys? I bet these are the dudes I saw in BYU hats
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 09:09AM by ladell.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 09:09AM by ladell.
Without saying too much to identify me. I know these people personally and have had many conversations with them and some of their relatives. This website only scratches the surface of the faith promoting rumor mill. Good people, very kind and generous, even intelligent. Up until you run into something related to the church.
They own some really cool artifacts from their many trips through the jungle. The sad thing is that none of them can be placed in the native cultural context, but must be placed in a Mormon spiritual context. I feel that it is completely disrespectful to disregard an entire culture (or rather, many of them) like that.
They own some really cool artifacts from their many trips through the jungle. The sad thing is that none of them can be placed in the native cultural context, but must be placed in a Mormon spiritual context. I feel that it is completely disrespectful to disregard an entire culture (or rather, many of them) like that.
http://www.helamantours.com/transportation/aboutotherldstourcompanies
"Make sure that your guide understands ancient America and the spiritual meaning behind the archeological sites.
In my experience, I have seen many tour guides teach incorrect doctrine because they don't have the knowledge to correctly explain the history and symbolism in these archeological sites. I won't name any names and I won't tell you any of these stories because it is hard for me as the source of some of these mistruths are related to me and are trying to ride my coat tails, so to speak. Please do not let the actions of my relatives affect your opinion of me. I love the gospel with all my heart and try my best to be completely honest with my tourists. I do not like to speculate and do not make up grandiose stories. I do not abuse a tourist's inexperience with the Mayan culture just for shock and awe. I actively use the Book of Mormon on my tours to help teach the evolution from Lamanite to Mayan..."
"Make sure that your guide understands ancient America and the spiritual meaning behind the archeological sites.
In my experience, I have seen many tour guides teach incorrect doctrine because they don't have the knowledge to correctly explain the history and symbolism in these archeological sites. I won't name any names and I won't tell you any of these stories because it is hard for me as the source of some of these mistruths are related to me and are trying to ride my coat tails, so to speak. Please do not let the actions of my relatives affect your opinion of me. I love the gospel with all my heart and try my best to be completely honest with my tourists. I do not like to speculate and do not make up grandiose stories. I do not abuse a tourist's inexperience with the Mayan culture just for shock and awe. I actively use the Book of Mormon on my tours to help teach the evolution from Lamanite to Mayan..."
BTW, is the Tulum God known outside of LDS circles as the "Descending God", or is it actually the "Diving God"? Have the momos tried to liberally stretch the concept of diving to equate it with Christ descending from heaven, and have they infected sources like Wikipedia where the Tulum article refers to both? The pics I have seen of the God are like this one: http://www.sfu.museum/cco_images/slides/Large/i001/2006.017.175.jpg, and Tulum is near some cliffs along the ocean, which brings cliff diving to mind (not sure if that is the connection or not).
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 08:42AM by facsimile3.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 08:42AM by facsimile3.
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