Say that, in the name of science, you were going to construct the Golden Plates according to the length and width dimensions provided.

How many plates would you need to write the whole book out by hand?

Also, suppose you created a second set, but instead of writing it out in Roman characters, you created a pictographic version of English, and a single character represented each English word.
How many plates would this version require?

How many inches in height would each crafted version end up being?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 10:52AM by archytas.

Here is my estimate (assuming the "plates" are flat metal sheets that don't stick to other with a small separation distance).

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http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,968331,968331#msg-968331

The Impossibility Of The Plates.

This probably has been put up before but I thought I'd do this to provide basic common sense information:

The "plates" were said to be a stack of gold metal sheets "as thick as common tin" six by eight inches in size and six inches high. Gold is a very dense metal -- density 19.3 times more than water which weighs sixty four pounds per cubic foot. This alone would be enough for the story not to pass the smell test but if you need more proof, here's the analysis:

Density of Gold: 19.3 g/cm^3

Volume of Plates: 6" x 8" x 6" = 288 in^3, 4719.474432 cm^3

Plate Thickness, "thick as common tin," 1/64" = 0.015625" = 0.396875 mm, approx 0.4 mm

Number of Plates: stack 6" high, 152.4 mm / 0.4 mm = 381 plates

Volume of Plate: 6" x 8" x 1/64" = 0.75 in^3 = 12.290298 cm^3

Mass of Gold Plate: 12.290298 cm^3 x 19.3 g/cm^3 = 237.2027514 g = 0.522 lbs

Total Mass Of Gold Plates: 381 x 237.2027514 g = 90.374 Kg = approx. 200 lbs

Running or casually carrying a small dense stack of gold sheets weighing two hundred pounds would be absolutely impossible.


But wait, now say the Mormons. The plates weren't really made of gold as they were previously said to be to be but were actually the copper/silver/gold alloy called by the ancient Greeks orichalcon and called in the New World tumbaga. Estimates vary but a composition consisting of eighty per cent. copper, fifteen per cent. silver and fiver per cent. gold has been proposed. Using this metal we now have the following estimate:

Copper 8.96 g/cm^3 80%
Silver 10.49 g/cm^3 15%
Gold 19.3 g/cm^3 5%
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Tumbaga 9.7065 g/cm^3


Total Mass Of Tumbaga Plates: 381 x 119.29578g = 45.452 Kg = approx. 100 lbs

Joseph Smith would have to be unusually strong to carry and run with a small dense object weighing a hundred or two hundred pounds or more. To paraphrase Terryl Givens, that's the "price you pay" to believe in a made up fantasy religion like Mormonism.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 12:01PM by anybody.

Thanks!

I don't know how I missed the older thread.

I don't know if 381 plates is enough room for the actual characters unless they (they who? haha) use some kind of pictographic or logographic system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2014 12:38PM by archytas.

If you look at the Book of Abraham materials, J.S. came up with sentences and entire verses from a single Egyptian hieroglyph. In his mind, Reformed Egyptian characters were even more information dense than standard Egyptian.

Information dense, but not specific. The more concepts are 'collapsed' into single pictograms either more space for interpretation of their meaning arises, or there is a need for *vast* number of pictograms since each pictogram would involve number of variables. I bet the case would be the former.. space for interpretation. Of course, all this is hypothetical, because the language itself does not exist.

Why didn't god etch the entire book on micro chip of silicon and let brother joseph read it with his river pebble sear stone?

It seems god likes to play with mortals by having them transcribe history on to 100 lb plates the prophet had to drag around while being pursued by lamanites and then have a con man translate them with a conjure trick. Why couldn't god do real magick?

I can't believe I ever took part in this nonsense.

Absolutely! Or an SD card. The peepstone could then have had a little slot that the card could've been plugged into. All totally doable by an advanced civilization (since our civilization could easily accomplish something like that). In fact, something like that would've been more believable (would've done away with the weight issue, for example). But of course, JS didn't have a concept of such in his time to draw from.

Why not use the Liahona?

1 Nephi 16:29 and there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us understanding concerning the ways of the Lord;....and changed from time to time.

No need for plates when one can simply read, presumably in any language, what is written on a sphere.