In another of the 2nd Anointing posts going around, Cludgie mentioned that they were of the opinion that the 2nd Anointing had to take place in this life to be exalted (become a god) in the next life.

Yes, this was my understanding too.

I have a story related to this about what one of the top 15 said concerning this.

It was Russell Ballard who came to a stake leadership training as part of a stake conference about a decade ago. Both my dad and I were in attendance at that meeting and we had in-depth conversations about it later.

I will paraphrase. Ballard said that many people in the church had it wrong about salvation because in a way the people in the church have become soft, thinking and teaching that salvation was eventually be universal. He said that was not so and those people are silly, and he is reluctant to mention it because what it might do for morale.

He said that very, very few (he said we would be surprised how few) will eventually become exalted. To me, it felt like he was saying that the members of the church will toil, pay their tithing, and serve, but that will not be enough. Only a small group of people will eventually come out on top.

I thought, what's the point of giving so much, when this guy knows who will be saved and who will not. There's no point of trying to be the best you can be when getting there is very, very rare.

I am sure that he was speaking of the second anointing. The second anointed then are building their kingdom, like dumb animals, off the backs of the members of the church.

Even my dad who is robotically stupid for the church was shaken to his core--more so than me because his is a true believer and has given everything to the cult. Up to this point my dad believed that just being the best you could be was good enough. After that, leadership positions became all-consuming for him.

To Ballard, being good, being the best you can be is not good enough, you also have to be inducted into the fraternity.

What do you know about Ponzi schemes? Would you like to know more?

. . . But this one's different. The payout is way better than Nu Skin or Amway. It's got eternal payouts. Some guys even get their own planet and all the ladies they can handle.

Hahaha.

Wow, I actually thought God and Jesus were good at their jobs of getting us back to heaven. Guess not. If most of us are screwed anyway, what's the point??

..this is a major point. The Mormon definition of what salvation is has nothing to do with orthodox Christian belief.

notmonotloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..this is a major point. The Mormon definition of
> what salvation is has nothing to do with orthodox
> Christian belief.


Mere salvation is for the masses.

Exaltation is what busy-body Mormies aspire to but of which only the chosen few get a written guarantee.

I remember my SP telling us that Ballard had told the stake leadership (prior to a regional meeting) that the number of people even making it to the CK would surprise everybody because the percentage was so low.

At the time I was already a disbeliever, so I really didn't care. All I remember thinking was how I considered both Ballard and my SP egotistical bags of SH#T.

It's all about control. What did your father do after hearing this? He dug in even more. Even then, he'll just beat himself up every day, telling himself he's not good enough.

That's just poisonous. What a terrible existence to live.

Henry Eyring came to a stake conference when I was in college. I happened to be dating the stake president's son at the time and I had Sunday lunch with him. It was exciting for me because I thought so highly of him. After lunch, we all retired to the living room to continue our conversation and out of the blue Henry B. says, "You know,not many people are going to make it to the Celestial Kingdom." I was shocked by the smug callousness of this statement. He continued by saying that, "Of course, we don't tell the members this because it would be too discouraging." I was floored! The fact that he would share that so casually with us was stunned me and I didn't know what to make of it. This was pre mission for me but it was the beginning of the end.

Methinks Ballard hasn't ever really sat down and worked out just how many infants have died before they reach 8 years of age.

Yes :-)

It was so bothersome to me that I never told my parents and I didn't talk to my then boyfriend about it. I wanted to pretend that I never heard it. It wasn't until he was called to be an apostle and I had already left the morg that I was able to fully digest what he said.

Henry Eyering and Ballard are going to be surprised. But for now I will say no more.

Are you making an afterlife joke? Or is this something that might be coming down the pike soon?

O that I had died before the age of accountability! O, that I had been born of the true lineage and loins of Jesus Christ, that I may have associated with those noble ones who are ordained unto the celestial glory and exaltation! For surely, if so, then I would have received my Anointing unto exaltation, and with The Lord Jesus Christ, I would have reigned throughout eternity on high!

O miserable man that I am, that I did not die a child, or that I was not born in the holy lineage!

On the other hand, I sat in an audience for SC for the Servicemen's stake in Stuttgart and BRM stated just the opposite. That you get on the path in this life, and you will not fall off of it in the next, and you will make it. Don't over complicate. Hmmm. Wonder which one it is? On the other hand, it's all BS anyway.

I remember him saying that too. McConkie said that if you stay in the mainstream of the Church, do what you're told, stay active, etc., and then die, that you will reach the CK. He said a lot of other things that I only half remember, that that was the gist of it.

There are so many contradictory statements by Mormon leaders, I think Mormons must have about a six month memory to make sense of it all. And what a mean-spirited thing for Ballard and Eyring to say.

Mormon leadership fails miserably to stay on the same page when it comes to doctrine, history. Oh wait, they are Mormons. That is to be expected. :P

Look at all the first vision accounts. They've been doing it right from the start -- it's practically their foundation!

well what do you expect from ballard. He JUST threw joseph smith under the bus in the march ensign and tells everyone what joseph REALLY meant:

http://media.ldscdn.org/pdf/magazines/ensign-march-2014/2014-03-00-ensign-eng.pdf

YAY BALLARD!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2014 09:45AM by johnnyboy.

I actually was taught in Seminary that very few people will make it to the CK. Sorhe fact that GAs have said it as well doesn't surprise me.

By saying such things, they confirm that the church is not preaching the Gospel. It's a completely different religion. And even if they use some Christian references they don't mean the same thing in the mormon context. If I only knew it 20 years ago....

What if you get your 2nd Annointing, get to the Gates of Heaven, and forget your secret handshakes? Sh*t! Memorize them there handshakes. Don't go gettin yur thumb, er pointy finger, er, yeah; in the wrong knuckle slot, er whatever.

So basically you could be a JW and your chances may even be better? Crazy stuff!!

It's kind of like,... You have an Amway distributorship, see, and you turnover so many percent per month for so much time, and you get a "direct distributorship." Suddenly you start gaining income from those below you, or something. I mean, it's all good, right? And then you move beyond that as others below you become direct, and then you come out on top after years as a "diamond" distributor or something like that. That, folks, is your ticket to wealth, the Second Anointing, the Second Endowment, your "calling and election have been made sure." This is Mormonism. You are saved, and you can now buy that private aeroplane.

Strange- I was taught that there would be more people in the CK than any other kingdom

...The implication, of course, is that these apostles conveying this gibberish, DO supposedly have it made and it basically sucks to be anyone else.

My stake prez said in a talk that only 1 in 10 LDS would make it to the CK.

With the rate of exodus from the cult, there will be not many more than 144,000 members quite soon. So, the ones that stick it through will be the ones saved. By that reasoning the TBMs should want to see the big apostacy continue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/144000_(number)

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshiped God,

12 Saying, Amen; Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God forever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters; and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.