Hi, I'm a nevermo. My wife is a TBM. Long story, but short version is yes, we've had a lot of friction over the years (married now 19 years).
What has me currently worried is our oldest child (just turned 15). He recently had his ordination to be a "teacher". He loves the youth group at LDS; doesn't really like to go to same at my church. I think it's mainly because the LDS youth is a larger group and as such "more fun" for him, than at my church.
But this morning, I asked him if he wanted to go to my church with his sister and I (my wife is out of town this weekend), but he said "No, not really." then made some excuse about his back hurting.

To you exmormons out there: Am I being overly worried?

I'm not trying to compete with my wife's church. I have just wanted our kids to see that there are other views out there. It bothers me that they are constantly told that LDS is the "true church". Of course, my biggest fear is that some day I'll be the only non-mormon (we have 3 kids) in this family and as such will feel alienated by my own family.

I've done a lot of reading (and praying) over the past 6-8 weeks, including "A friendly Discussion. Mormonism - Pro and Con" by Ed Bliss. I had never realized there were so many facts out there that argue against the very foundation of the LDS church.

I had a talk with my son a couple of weeks ago; we covered why I've never believed LDS is the "true church" and some of the facts in the book I mentioned. I'm not really sure how he took it. At first he kind of responded like "Oh really?", then he sort of stopped and seemed to put up a guard (Maybe he's already been counseled on viewing anything anti-mormon as coming from satan).

It's been a rough few weeks on me, because of the above. Maybe I'm just over interpreting things.

I think I need to talk more with him, and I promised him I would. I did about a week ago (similar talk as above), but I sensed that he really didn't want to talk about it anymore.

Is it too late? Is he at the point of no return? Any advice?

not listen to you. How discouraging. I don't think you are overreacting.

Instead of trying to argue religion, I'd suggest talking about the following on a daily basis in smaller doses. You may be doing all this, but perhaps someone else could use the list:

How and when to question authority.
Learning to trust and rely on ones own good judgment.
Methods of thinking critically.
Analyzing the motives of people who want to control you or to take something from you - money, time, etc.
Analyzing why people want to 'give' them something for nothing.
Analyzing what people want to 'give' them - like greatness after death.
Study negotiating tactics and realize when they have the power to bargain.
How to say no, or at least 'I'll get back to you after I think about that'.
How to politely agree to disagree without having to explain themselves to others.
Saying 'no' to adults who want to ask them personal questions
Making plans for their own lives.
Thinking about their own morals and how they make their own rules.
Ignoring people who want to use fear, guilt or shame to manipulate them.
Identifying and speaking up to people who use bigotry to control people - girls, gays, anyone 'different'

Older kids can learn about logic, strawmen, circular reasoning, sales techniques, persuasive thinking, etc.

There are examples all around us to use in discussions - on TV, while shopping, in church.

I have a daughter who converted to Mormonism and she attended our Christian church her whole life. Still the Mormons got her due to a boy. Your situation is worse since he has had lots of indoctrination with the LDS. He does realize that at YOUR church he is not brainwashed as he is with the LDS, does he get that? Does he realize he is not given orders to not associate with certain people, to not read anything contradictory to your church you attend, he is not learning to pay up or not be worthy, and he doesn't have private interviews with authority figures. So much is different with the LDS.

I hurt so much when my 18-20 yr. old daughter was being love-bombed, then quit college due to this Mormon guy and then converted- due more to pressure from his family than from him. I can not believe she truly believes any of it. I did not attend her baptism in another state- I told her she was already baptised and I would honor that one-and she knew I would never go to it anyhow...and I didn't attend her "after the temple party" friends had for her. They were married civily, went thru a bankrupcy after three yrs. of marriage and then did the temple thing over a yr. later. I refused to go since I can not condone my daughter being in a cult. Still we have a good relationship.

I assume your son got baptised LDS? OR maybe not. He is being pushed to plan a mission I am sure. Talk to him about losing two yrs. of his life. Tell him he should decide if he wants to do that....not some old man or local bishop. My guess is he is being told you are a lost soul and although you are his father, he doesn't have to believe anything you say since you are the adversary. Just continue showing him what a good life one can have as a nonmormon and maybe things will work out. Talk as much as you can to him. Teach him all the things you know they are NOT teaching him....you won't be able to see him marry if he marries in the temple, the Jammies he must wear if he stays LDS, etc. IF he has questions about his LDS teachings ask him to ask his MOM. When she can't or won't answer, ask him if that seems right? Shouldn't she know, shouldn't she want to share what the facts are about Mormonism with her children. Make him think. And for sure teach him about analyzing anything anyone says. Always research to learn facts.

I wish you well, but I know your agony. Many nevermo parents are suffering every day. And now I have a grandchild who will be indoctrinated too. It's a boy and he will soon be singing Mormon songs....isn't there one about going on a mission??? I can hardly wait. All very very sad. Oh and don't hesitate to go to his Bishop if you feel your son is beginning to disrespect you. Have a man to man talk on how you will not allow them to cause any friction between you and your son. Stand up for your family.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2010 05:19PM by honestone.

Thanks to Heresy and honestone. Honestone, I feel your agony also. Your situation is similar to mine. Are you ex-mormon, or nevermo?
Right now I think the big attraction for my son is the youth, not so much the doctrine. He is now attending seminary every morning with the other LDS youth. I asked him recently why he wants to attend. He said: "It's just fun. I don't know".
But I fear he'll begin to believe what he's hearing, if he hears it over and over again. And what he'll hear is that other churches are apostate, wrong, and misinformed. And that includes his father. That he will be encouraged to marry within the church (which means I'll be sitting outside), and that we can't be a family in heaven. These are the primary things I consider harmful and that I spend much time worrying about.
I have mentioned reason, thinking on your own, don't believe everything you hear, and so forth. No sure how much it sunk in.

I am a nevermo. When we had to move to Utah I thought it couldn't be so bad as long as we were nice. We sure tried, but no one was nice to us. I have not one friend from my neighborhood through that experience. I didn't even see the Mormon couples associate with one another where I lived.

I am currently having the same problem with my daughter. We took her to a christian church her whole life. She started dating a mormon at 16yrs old. They have knon each other since they were 4 yrs old. He left for his Mission in January 2010. We thought things would taper off as soon as he left. But, oh no, we did not see his parents coming. The father is the Bishop and they will not leave her alone. They have offered to pay for college at U of U, buy all of her dorm stuff, and keep telling her how happy being a Moron will be for her. The letters the missionary writes tell how he will kill himself if she dates or marries anyone else. I followed her to the Lds church and she is so love bombed I could hardly contain myself. It is a complete mess! I am surrounded by them.

Sorry cakeatmidnight. I would not allow this meddling by the Bishop. They overstep their boundaries all the time. I certainly would tell them to not talk to my daughter about college at all. It is not their place.

My SIL did not go on a mission and was a bad boy for 5 yrs. Then he met my daughter. It is his parents and siblings that finally got her to convert after 3 yrs. of marriage. His mom got her son active again and then the pressure was on. They just can not let these kids live their own lives. I was in another state and it was so hard knowing what they were doing. I did not attend the baptism. She knew I would not go since we have a wonderful memory of her real baptism and that is what I hold dear. Nothing will take the place of that. One day she may wise up I don't know.

YOur daughter is younger and I would definitely keep trying to inform her of the facts as you know them. My daughter would not listen and being older 19 plus she was often away working or attending college. They were always occupying her time even after a college eve. class. Then she just quit. Mormon parents don't get how that affects us nonmormon parents. I was livid! All the best to you. At least the guy is gone for now.

He's 15 years old. If he makes the decision that he wants to be a part of the LDS religion I think you need to respect that.

I may not believe in the LDS religion anymore, but I respect them and their beliefs. To be honest, it sounds like you're more concerned about preventing him from being involved because of your own problems with the religion. He's old enough to make this decision for himself.

I'm a soon to be exmo and my 5 year old loves going to the LDS church so I take her. I'm not angry, I'm not upset. I can teach her about other religions right here in our own home and I do. (Christmas time is a GREAT time to do this since you can teach about other religious holidays during that time of year.) I've taken her to other churches as well, but if she's the same age as your son and makes the decision to be LDS I will stand by her 100%. Whatever makes HER happy is what is important to me. Just because the LDS religion didn't fit for me doesn't mean it won't for everyone and they're entitled to think they're right. That's really something most religions do.

are a bad person and going to a lower kingdom? And that she shouldn't listen to you, but to them for solutions to her problems?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2010 07:41PM by Heresy.

You have people like that in any religion.

If someone were to cross a boundary with my daughter I would deal with it.

However, I've never attended any church where there hasn't been a select group of people who think they are superior to others and cross boundaries.

It's a part of human nature, not a part of the LDS religion specifically.

You respect their beliefs????? How can one respect a cult of any kind? You are okay with their lies and falsehoods??? Wow....you really need to reflect on what you said. The OP is not okay with the LDS lies, falsehoods, forced tithing, bishop's secret talks with his children, coersion of attending seminary so he is not gossipped about, etc. A 15 yr. old doesn't know nearly all about the LDS, it's founder and how he learns is through brainwashing. You okay with that?

I know that when I was 15 years old and I wanted out, I wasn't allowed to. My parents FORCED me to try and believe in something that I didn't believe in.

How is this any better?

Look, you clearly believe you have all the answers. I do not believe that way. I believe that no one knows and no one has the answers. BUT I can respect those that are different than me and believe differently than I do, even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

I know... it's a difficult concept for many people but a lot of the problems our society faces stem from hating those who are different from you. How are you any better than the Mormons you criticize when you're doing the same thing they are, the only difference is you're on the other side of the fence?

I agree that we all should be able to enjoy the religion of our choice, including my son. As long as there is no coercion and no emotional or physical harm involved.
I sounds like you grew up mormon. Was there no coercion growing up? Were you not told that leaving the church would be a bad thing?
Is excluding non-mormon parents from their kid's weddings not harmful? Convincing the kids that they cannot be a family in heaven, unless they convert a parent?
Please, let me know if I am over-reacting, but myy wife has more or less confirmed them to me.

When I was 15 I was the most devout little TBM you ever saw. After a few years of seminary I'd lost most of my passion. By 19 I knew I wasn't going on a mission. And by 20 I stopped attending altogether.

It's quite possible a similar future awaits your son. He has a tremendous advantage that I didn't have and that's a dad who's not a gung ho TBM.

You're right to be worried but at least you have the next 3-4 years to influence your son. You can counter balance all the bs he's being fed at church.

Thanks Charley. You've given me some hope I haven't had much of lately.
All I can do I guess is talk to him frequently, ask him how he feels about the things he's being taught, all in small doses, without sounding like I'm trying to tear him away from the LDS church.

You need to make him feel "safer". Don't say anything negative about LDS DOCTRINE. But culteral quirks and practices are fair game. My (secretly apostate) husband would mock my overactive guilt over every little thing. He would question the value of so many meetings (I was in the RS presidency). And he would talk to me about things like science and evolution . . . not in a way that I thought he was trying to convince me of anything . . . but because that's something he's passionate about.

He also frankly told me that he thought the Noah story was ridiculous because of the sheer number of species on the planet and the logistical nightmare of gathering animals unique to other CONTINENTS (like Australia) and feeding them and cleaning up after them. For a year. On a boat. In the middle of salt water.

I NEVER felt like he was attacking the church, although his lack of faith in the Noah story and creation story seemed unorthodox. But it didn't set off my Mormon apostate radar.

However, it sounds like you are still Christian, so you'll have to proceed based on whether YOU consider the BIBLE to be 100% accurate.

Oh, and he expressed love to me constantly. He was and is a great husband, so if I had to choose, I think I would have realized (even though I was Ultra TBM) that he would be indispensible to my happiness even if I didn't agree with him on the church.

Anyway, . . . just see if you can build the relationship with your son in ways that have NOTHING to do with church. And anything you say to make him think has to be very subtle.

Honestly, probably the best approach is to let him go through this. Keep working on teaching him critical thinking. Investigate the church yourself and question him about inconsistencies or problems you find to try to get him to work out the solution and find answers for you. Don't openly criticize because this will just cause him to feel isolated from you and push him further into the church by strengthening his resolve. Go to church with him and keep asking questions.

Unfortunately, at 15, critical thinking is hard for children to do. You may have to let him go for a while and let him join to live with these choices. He's not setting out to make poor choices. He thinks this is what will make him a better person. It's very likely that as he gets older he'll realize it's all crap and end up leaving. In the meantime he'll have to live his own life and figure some things out on his own.

As someone else said "He's 15!". Wait'll he want to do sixteen-year-old stuff and none of the Mormon kids can do that. He'll see the light. :)

Ron