I vote for THEY LIE and THEY WANT YOUR MONEY.

I think the answer is a yes and yes. I think they know the foundational story doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny and that they have no special magical powers. But I think they believe in doing a good job for the church.

They know.

Either

1) they harbor secret doubts as to why they don't get visited by Jesus Christ, and wonder if they are personally unworthy and if the rest of the GAs do get divine visits. They've got to know that their experience as a GA isn't what they imagined it would be when they were growing up. No meetings with Jesus in the upper room of the temple.

or

2) they are psychotic and interpret every little feeling or inkling as god speaking to them

or

3) they know, and they have a tacit agreement to never bring up the topic, even amongst themselves

They know it's a lie because they're not stupid -- but they want it to be true because that's the most convenient and lucrative option - therefore, they "know" that it's true.

So the answer to your question is yes, and yes. Only in Mormonism do you get the same answer to contrary questions.

Like people of other religions they have "faith" that it is true, regardless of the evidence against it.

1- They've lived behind the scenes. They have squabbles with each other - would you think Hinkley was a prophet if you saw his mistakes backfire? or you knew Bensen was totally incompasitated most of tenure? or Monson's mean behavior?

2- People probably tell and show them faith demoting stuff all the time.

3- They probably don't feel any more "inspired" as a GA

4- They hid stuff ; like the salamander letter

I think the ones of yesteryear truly believed. The current ones not so much. They spend their time doing everything possible to make the church more mainstream, and hide the problems. What "revelation" of any importance has come down from on high? Not much of anything. Maybe that will change if packer gets in there. He seems like a true believer.

How long have the GAs known? Did David O McKay know? Kimball? Hinckley?

that Mormonism is a fraud. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were shamanistic megalomaniacs who believed their own B.S. whilst enriching themselves but every so-called prophet and apostle since their time has known Mormonism isn't quite what the membership "think" that it is. Catholics don't expect the Pope to see Jesus Christ everyday but Mormons expect their leaders to have theophanic visitations just as Joseph Smith claimed to have. Satan and his agents lurk within every shadow. They've been conditioned to believe in magic trick undergarments like fetishistic talismans. The Brethren (and minions who actually run the LDS church) don't believe any this and furthermore they are astute enough to know how bizarre it all sounds to the world beyond the Zion Curtain. They've convinced themselves that what they do is for the good of the many.

Actions speak louder than words. If the Brethren truly believed in their product they would proclaim their faith to the world but they don't. It's never been that way. Marshall "Do" Applegate went on tape in public saying "Planet Earth about to be recycled -- your only hope is to leave with us..."

I don't expect any of the Brethren to ever do anything like that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2014 10:36PM by anybody.

they know that their paychecks are tied to perpetuating the scam.

WILL ANYONE OF THEM 'BEAR (unequivocal) TESTIMONY' OF ANY OF THE CORE CLAIMS IN GC, IN WRITING, OR ANY OTHER OPPORTUNITY???


That, my friends, is the true answer to this (former) question!

Here's one:
"With other latter-day prophets, I testify of the truthfulness of this “most correct of any book on earth,” even the Book of Mormon, another testament of Jesus Christ. Its message spans the earth and brings its readers to a knowledge of the truth. It is my testimony that the Book of Mormon changes lives."
(Thomas S. Monson, Liahona Oct 2011)

You have to do some searching, but they are out there.

I think a GA testimony should be relative/pertinent to their calling/'authority'/position;

the TSM 'testimony' you cited seems (how should I say?) A little hollow.


< to me> an unequivocal testimony contains the phrase "I KNOW That..."

am I being too picky?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2014 11:31PM by guynoirprivateeye.

Don't know if you are being too picky. But whose to say what the exact words have to be to qualify? I quickly found 10 more examples of where Monson testifies of core doctrines in ensign articles or video.

If they're relevant / pertinent to TSMs (claimed) level of participation, NOT at the level of a youngster towed to the mic @ F&T, that might impress me IF SPECIFIC.


such as:

I meet with Christ

Christ personally told me ....

God and / or Christ meet often in the Temple with (the FP, 12, etc.)

NOT saying I'd buy it, that's for sure.

Hey! they say a "Living Prophet" is NECESSARY to receive revelation(s) from deity, NOT to schedule the cleaning!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2014 12:16AM by guynoirprivateeye.

I'm intrigued with the thesis that JS and the first believers were mixing hallucinogenic mushrooms into the communion wine, back in the Kirtland days. That would have provided a powerful, but fake, group spiritual experience and given this exotic religion a core of zealots and strong momentum. (Other factors certainly contributed, too.) Outside of JS, Cowdrey, Harris, and others in the inner circle, they were very, very, true believers because of it.

Then the migrations began and they were removed from that source of "inspiration." So a complex interaction of ecclesiastical power, evolving mythology, and group psychology etc. took over and carried the movement along. JS's successors knew the supernatural events (real, imagined, or drug-induced) weren't happening anymore, but they had a good thing going, and continued to stoke the mythology with on-going "revelations," "scriptures," faith-promoting legends, Temple rituals and practices, and so on.

Mormon "theologians," being shallow thinkers, failed to account for the disconnect between the "supernatural" events of JS's time and their later absence. But they're sure not happening now.

I think they believe it just like any other leader in any other religion in the world. It's mythology, faith based, mystic, metaphysical, visionary core keeps it going.
There is no need for factual evidence with FAITH is the core element! That's universal and ancient.

SHUT UP AND GIVE ME YOUR MONEY!