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Posted by: charles, buddhist punk ( )
Date: September 18, 2010 02:01PM

this video is doing the rounds of Mos in FB:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCRqsHkJB_0

I watched it and my reaction was neutral. Okay, so they're captains of industry, good on them. But as I read the comments from the Mos I felt sorry for them:

"Finally a good video that shows the TRUTH about Latter-day Saints"

Dunno, it's just truly sad to hear a collective sigh of relief from the poor schmucks trapped in the cult.

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Posted by: derrida ( )
Date: September 18, 2010 02:22PM

You'd think after seeing the video that no one else in this country runs successful businesses but Mormons.

There's no secret to the idea that if you are "straight arrow"--no drinking, no drugs, no sexual complications, obediently handing over control of 10% of your income--that if you do these things you are going to be in decent shape to function without distraction. The church teaches so much obedience, that sure, these guys--almost all guys, right?--are perfect little company men.

The video doesn't talk about all the poor Mormons, or the percentage of Mormons in business who don't make it to the top, or the weirdness of a religion where the leaders in the local ward are more often than not business guys, managers, supervisors with no or little actual theological training. How deeply do these guys really understand the bases of Judeo-Christian relgion and its concepts? There is something scary about these totally dedicated but unreflective and rather ignorant men pursuing whatever Salt Lake tells them to do in the Handbook of Instructions. Anyone who has ever had an imperfect encounter with a Bishop could speak to that.

The problem is that there is more to life than being a wealth machine for other people (the church, the government, a huge family of dependents). The CEO families in the shots of the video are so large that it's kind of excessive and a little unseemly, despite all the fresh, shine faces and blonde hair. How many kids does a family need and can a family really give proper time and attention to?

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Posted by: PtLoma ( )
Date: September 18, 2010 04:14PM

Outside of the Morridor, Mormons are underrepresented in service professions such as police, firefighting, and medicine, in part because of the requirement for weekend work shifts.

I am an MD and know a few LDS physicians, but maybe four at most. Two are dermatologists, and one is an ER doctor (ER is gruelling, and they serve their community, but hours are fixed and they get adequate time off). I know of only two LDS MDs in primary care: one an Ob-Gyn, and one a Pediatrician. The Ob-Gyn has an active obstetrics pratice (i.e. does hospital hours) whereas the Pediatrician does office hours and no hospital duty.

Doctors with long office + hospital hours (surgeons, internists, Ob-Gyn) are rarely LDS, takes too much time from church leadership duties.

The point here is that I think Mormons gravitate more to business and, to a lesser degree, law rather than medicine. Quite a few are dentists, but again they have regular hours, unlike some MDs.

There is another factor which may limit the number of LDS MDs, at least for Utah-based Mormons. There is only one med school in Utah (at the U) and they rightfully admit about 40% women. And as a state supported school, they have to show they are admitting minorities as well. The result is that it's harder for a white male to get into the U med school than just about in any other state, given that the vast majority of LDS premeds are male: the white male TBM applicant pool is competing for less than half of the spots at the U. Not surprisingly, many of the Utah-raised TBM MDs I know had to go out of state to get into med school, often paying a vastly higher tuition than Utah residents pay at the U.

A few dim-witted GOP legislators ordered an investigation into the U's medical admission policies after one legislator's grandson (BYU grad) failed to gain admission. Their allegation was that BYU grads were being discriminated against because their acceptance rate by the U was lower than for U undergrads---until administrators deftly pointed out that BYU's premed pool has a much larger % of non-Utah residents (duh---it has a national draw) than U undergrads, and Utah residents have priority in the admissions process.

That said, if you are white male LDS from Utah, your chances to get into Utah's med school are pretty low. Most schools mirror their applicant pool gender ratios (i.e. if 54% of applicants are male and 46% are female, they will try to accept students in about the same ratio), but my guess is that the U has a low % of female applicants vs. similar schools outside of Utah (where women are encouraged to have full careers). So they may enhance the pool of acceptances to include more women, so that their gender mix isn't so "1960s". (I think there SHOULD be gender equality in medicine, but in Utah, you are not going to get as many female premeds as male premeds due to the prevailing local religion).

[I ought to clarify at this point that one of the LDS docs above is from Utah and had to go out of state for med school. Three of the docs I mentioned did go to BYU, but were California residents having grown up in CA and still having family there, so when they applied to University of California med schools, they were accepted and did not face the obstacles that Utah LDS males face. I don't know the educational background of the fifth MD. What's interesting is that most of the LDS MDs I know here are California natives who went to BYU and then to a UC med school. Either THEY couldn't take the TBM heat in Utah, either, or at least they could convince their eternal companion that California was not the den of sin and Satan as many Utahns are raised to believe.]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2010 04:19PM by PtLoma.

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Posted by: charles, buddhist punk ( )
Date: September 18, 2010 02:31PM

Agreed on all points.

The CNN report in fact says nothing about the correlation between church doctrine and being a successful businessman. Atheist, secular, or even (gasp) Muslim mega CEO's would deeply disappoint them. No, the Mo's just fill in the blanks, you should read how they gush and praise the church in their FB status (statuses? stata?). How sad.

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Posted by: flyer ( )
Date: September 18, 2010 04:03PM

The reason Mormoons are known for business acumen, vs. some other trait (eg. music, artistry, charitable giving, top notch scientists, or athleticism) – is because the Mormoon organizationa is a large corporation, and everything it does encourages corporate success which means having successful business men (and women) in their ranks, who can contribute to the machine, literally through their tithes as well as by staffing the church’s various functions and positions.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: September 18, 2010 04:05PM

So is LDS Inc, which is why many of us refer to it as LDS Inc. It follows the corporate model right down to its logo and and branding campaign in building look-alike chapels, and correlated lesson plans.

A good Mormon male gets years of training in how to succeed in a corporation. They are constantly rewarded inside LDS Inc for being good corporate men. It is no surprise that they do well in secular corporations.

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Posted by: Flyer ( )
Date: September 18, 2010 04:13PM

Wow, just watched it. What a blatant PR plug for Romney.

Expect to see many many more of these in 2011. Morgbot PR staff busy at work!

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Posted by: Flyer ( )
Date: September 18, 2010 04:23PM

One more major misnomer in this news story:


Aint no way that the people who are in the top corporate jobs in Mormonism spend a full day every week in church, or every single Monday with their families--just due to the nature of their corporate jobs.

There may be a few (perhaps the self employed ones?) who do the FHE thing, but I know countless ones who spend hours travelling on business, etc.

What about the ones who spend most of their time in church leadership meetings, instead of at home with their families?

A business church? Yes. family church? Nooooooooooooo.

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Posted by: derrida ( )
Date: September 20, 2010 01:26PM

is that it is an attractive pitch to a lot of people living in a down economy.

There are people who will whore themselves out for any reason if it means they'll have wealth.

Unfortunately, that means that such people might gravitate to Mormonism if they see it as some sure way to a Gold Ticket.

So the church keeps attracting people who define themselves by their wealth. Doesn't sound like Christ's church to me.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: September 20, 2010 01:42PM

Packer:
Packer has bachelor's and master's degrees from Utah State University and an Ed.D. degree from Brigham Young University.

Perry:
Perry graduated from Utah State University in 1949 with a B.S. in business.

Nelson:
Nelson studied at LDS Business College while in his mid-teens and then worked as an assistant secretary at a bank. He did undegraduate studies and then received an M.D. degree from the University of Utah in August 1947He received a Ph.D. degree from the University of Minnesota in 1954.

Oaks:
He graduated from Brigham Young High School in 1950, Brigham Young University in accounting in 1954, and the University of Chicago Law School in 1957.
After graduating from the University of Chicago Law School, Oaks clerked for Chief Justice Earl Warren of the United States Supreme Court from 1957 to 1958. After his clerkship he practiced at the law firm of Kirkland & Ellis in Chicago. Oaks left Kirkland & Ellis to become a professor at the University of Chicago Law School. During part of his time on the faculty of the Law School, Oaks served as interim dean. Oaks left the Law School upon being appointed President at Brigham Young University.
Oaks would also serve five years as chairman of the Board of Directors of the Public Broadcasting Service (PBS) (1979–1984) and eight years as chairman of the Board of Directors of the Polynesian Cultural Center.

Ballard:
Professionally, Ballard became involved in several enterprises, including automotive, real estate, and investment businesses. He was the top-selling salesman for his father’s Nash car dealership when he left it in the early 1950s to pursue other business interests. In 1956, Ballard returned and took over the Ballard Motor Company from his father. During this period he also served in the United States Army Reserve, resigning his commission as a first lieutenant in 1957.
During the late 1950s, Ballard was recruited by the Ford Motor Company to become the first Edsel car dealer for Salt Lake City. After praying for guidance, he had the "clear impression" not to sign the franchise. He did anyway and incurred a huge loss, "without doubt the darkest period" of his business career.

Scott:
Scott graduated from George Washington University with a Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering.He later completed, what was an equivalent to a doctorate in nuclear engineering at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee, but due to the classified nature of the work, a formal university degree could not be awarded. He also worked on the development of the first commercial land-based nuclear power plant.

Hales:
Hales was born in New York City, New York, and raised in Queens. His father Rulon Hales was a successful artist. He received degrees from the University of Utah and Harvard Business School. Hales was a pilot in the U.S. Air Force. He married Mary Crandall, whom he met as a college sophomore in Queens, and they have two sons.
During his professional business career, Hales served in executive positions with four major national companies. After joining the Gillette Co., he became president of Papermate, a division of Gillette. Then he joined Max Factor as a vice president, and later headed Hughes Television Network. Just prior to his call to be a general authority, he was president of Chesebrough-Pond's.

Holland:
Holland later transferred to Brigham Young University where he graduated with a BA in English. He then received an MA in Religious Education from BYU while also teaching religion classes part time. After earning his master's degree, Holland became an Institute of Religion teacher in Hayward, California. He next served as an institute director in Seattle, Washington. While in Seattle, Holland served as the bishop of a single adults ward. Holland attended Yale University and earned a second master's degree, this time in American Studies, and later a Ph.D in the same subject. At Yale, Holland studied with American literary scholar and critic R. W. B. Lewis and authored a dissertation on the religious sense of Mark Twain.

Bednar:
then attended Brigham Young University, where he received a Bachelor of Arts degree in communication in 1976 and a Master of Arts degree in organizational communication in 1977. He then received a Doctorate in organizational behavior from Purdue University in 1980.
From 1980 to 1984, Bednar was the assistant professor of management in the College of Business Administration at the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville, Arkansas. He became assistant professor of management at Texas Tech University from 1984 to 1986. He then moved back to the University of Arkansas as the Associate Dean for Graduate Studies in the College of Business Administration from 1987 to 1992 and was then the director of the Management Decision-Making Lab from 1992 to 1997. In 1994, he was recognized as the outstanding teacher at the University of Arkansas and received the Burlington Northern Foundation Award for Excellence in Teaching. He has twice been the recipient of the Outstanding Teacher Award in the College of Business Administration.

Cook:
He graduated from Utah State University in 1963 with a bachelor's degree in political science and from Stanford Law School in 1966.
The Cooks moved to Hillsborough, California, where they had three children. Cook worked for 27 years as a corporate attorney, becoming a managing partner of Carr, McClellan, Ingersoll, Thompson and Horn in the San Francisco Bay area; for three years as president and chief executive officer of California Healthcare System (CHS); and then for some time[citation needed] as vice chairman of Sutter Health System. His tenure at CHS was marked by controversy as he orchestrated the lease of the once-public Marin General Hospital; the lease resulted in the transfer of millions of dollars of public funds to CHS. Cook also volunteered for 14 years as city attorney.

Christofferson:
After his mission, he earned a bachelor's degree from Brigham Young University and a J.D. from Duke University School of Law.
Christofferson began his law career as a law clerk to Judge John J. Sirica during the Watergate hearings.As a lawyer, Christofferson worked in Washington, D.C.; Nashville, Tennessee; Herndon, Virginia; and Charlotte, North Carolina. Christofferson was the associate general counsel for NationsBank in Charlotte and was the volunteer chairman of Affordable Housing of Nashville, Tennessee.

Anderson:
After his mission, he graduated from Brigham Young University and earned an MBA degree from Harvard Business School. He lived and worked in Tampa, Florida, where he was the vice president of the Morton Plant Health System. In the church, Andersen was a stake president in Tampa.
================================
Elder Holland is the only one with any type of religious training, even if it is teaching religion.

As a church with a quorum of leaders specializing in business, law, communcations, engineering and not a single divinity school diploma it comes as no surprise that the One True Corporation would be very good at business.

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Posted by: Jesus Smith ( )
Date: September 20, 2010 02:10PM

JoD3:360 Wrote:
> Scott:
> Scott ... later completed, what was an
> equivalent to a doctorate in nuclear engineering
> at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee,
> but due to the classified nature of the work, a
> formal university degree could not be awarded.

WTF? I've never heard of such a thing. I don't think it exists and because it is "Classified" no one can apparently verify it. Of course, anything done that long ago at Oak Ridge would be declassified by now (usually 10-25 years). We should file a FOIA on it and see if he's pulling a Paul Dunn.

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Posted by: JoD3:360 ( )
Date: September 20, 2010 02:22PM

I got it from wiki under Quorum of the twelve apostles.
Any Dunnisms would have to come from Scott or the author of the wiki-article.

At any rate, none of the Lords Annointed have anything but management and sales skills. This is why we see no true or prophetic leadership, and only maintaining the status quo.

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Posted by: puck ( )
Date: September 30, 2010 03:36AM

Am I the only one to read Oaks' description and react "holy shit! what is he doing working in religion!? he's brilliant!!"

It's effing HARD to get a supreme court clerkship, and although I expect it wasn't quite so bad back then, it was still probably next to impossible. And Chicago is a top-notch law school -- their faculty put out so much research it's amazing. Why the hell is he involved in church stuff? from his CV, it looks like he was being groomed for a federal bench.

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Posted by: Steven ( )
Date: September 20, 2010 01:48PM


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Posted by: Villager ( )
Date: September 20, 2010 03:22PM

Joseph Smith, was a good example, he didn't want to work hard at an honest job, he liked to make money talking/selling people into things where he could then take their money.

Successful mormon men like to sit behind their desks and think they run the world. Lawyers, insurance salesman, brokers, they don't want to move their butts, they just want to skim off a good dollar amount for themselves.

This attitude makes Multi-level marketing and scamming a major highly regarded activity in Utah.

And CEO Mitt is known for his hostile takeover of companies not for compassion of the workers who lose their jobs. And of course his off shore tax shelters.


Which makes me wonder.

Did Bernie Madoff have a real job?

Or how about mormon Val Southwick, did he ever have a real job?


Jeff Benedick is just a paid PR shrill. Taking his cut.

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