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Posted by: tombs1 ( )
Date: March 16, 2014 11:52PM

Well it is baseball season, and I have a question. I have read on this board and other Ex Mo boards that one of Paul H. Dunn's tall tales was that he would "meet with other players in hotel rooms, pray with them and teach them about the gospel." On this board and the others it says he claimed to have done that with Ted Williams. Dunn claimed that he played five years with the St. Louis Cardinals. Ted Williams never played for the Cardinals. I was wondering did Paul H. Dunn ever tell any of his stories about meeting, praying with ect. Ted Williams? And if anyone has any other Paul H. Dunn stories I would like to hear them, thanks.

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Posted by: tensolator ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 12:01AM

My in laws would have you know that those are not tall tales, but faith promoting stories.

As far as Ted Williams is concerned, when he is reanimated, I guess we could ask him.

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Posted by: brotherjoseph ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 12:19AM


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Posted by: brotherjoseph ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 12:26AM

Here is Google search with the Holy Ghost version:

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS574US574&q=Thomas+S.+Monson%2C+Holy+Ghost+version

Here is Google without that inspiration:

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS574US574&q=Thomas+S.+Monson%2C+without+the+spirit

You see, bogus Facebook pages are there, without the Holy Ghost being added at Google.

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Posted by: brotherjoseph ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 12:28AM

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS574US574&q=Thomas+S.+Monson%2C+without+the+spirit#q=LDS+Fraud+Trial%2C+Holy+Ghost+version

Above you see Google with the Holy Ghost version.

I have discovered that Google, not merely Priesthood holders perform at peak when the Holy Ghost is added.

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Posted by: brotherjoseph ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 12:32AM

With the Holy Ghost version included in "Jell-O nailed to the wall" look carefully:

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=hts&oq=&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS574US574&q=Jell-O+Nailed+to+the+Wall%2C+Holy+Ghost+version

. Catholicism was first to attempt the ritual...not the LDS faithful, as was testified to at three Southern California Firesides in the late 60's by Paul Dunn.

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Posted by: brotherjoseph ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 12:35AM


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Posted by: brotherjoseph ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 12:38AM

Yeah, and behold:

https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS574US574&q=Millions+of+steel+swords+found+in+Hill+Cumorah%2C+Holy+Ghost+version

"For when the sons of men seek in this way, they shall find hidden treasures of greater knowledge, yeah even the swords of all battles fought by the Nephites and the Lamanites."

- Sealed portion of the Book of Mormon, Parowan Prophet (2014)

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Posted by: Mr. Happy ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 03:42AM

In 1985 I started a front office career in minor league baseball. With tons of reference materials at my disposal, I thought it would be cool to research Paul Dunn's baseball career.

For some reason, I couldn't find ANYTHING about him ANYWHERE. I had heard about him being in the Cardinals system, but when I searched the pages and pages of Cardinals stats...nothing showed up. That finally led me to contact our league statistician/historian for some assistance. He was very well respected in baseball circles and if he couldn't find something, no one could. Well, he came back and told me that he couldn't uncover anything either.

I was stumped. But being TBM at the time I just figured that any Paul Dunn baseball stats had been misplaced, not recorded, or omitted. What should have been a huge red flag...I just rationalized away.

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Posted by: NormaRae ( )
Date: August 07, 2021 11:13AM

Obviously Dunn never played ANY professional baseball. I had a former best friend whose sister was married to Dunn’s nephew. The family knew there was no truth to his stories. But that family (Dunn’s siblings and father)had skeletons bursting out of the closet. And ya gotta wonder how much mental illness could lie underneath. One thing I’ve learned is that it’s hard to know where some people’s pathological lying stops and where delusion begins. To the point that the wiring in their brain puts the stories they’ve conjured up into their memories. And they will defend them vehemently. Because they honestly remember something happening as much as you know it didn’t happen.

I don’t know. Just wondering if he might have believed his own stories. I’ve been reading so much about schizophrenia, sociopathy and personality disorders trying to understand my ex-husband, his insane family and the offspring we had together. Not to mention the crazy person (me) who married into that and did all the wrong things in trying to make a family out of it. I read “Hidden Valley Road” in the past year and felt like I was reading the story of my life. I really related to that mother. And I realized that we rarely consider mental illness as the root cause of the bizarre things people do.

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Posted by: Strength in the Loins ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 04:15AM

Yeah. There were some red flags that any die-hard TBM baseball fan could have picked up on.

The whole bit with Ted Williams raises a couple of questions that I never considered at the time.

Williams played his entire career in Boston...in the American League. If Dunn was in the Cardinals system (a National League team) when would they have ever crossed paths? I suppose that theoretically they could have met in spring training or at some off-season meeting, but that seems extremely unlikely.

I stand all amazed when I think that Dunn got away with his flagrant lies for as long as he did.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 04:34AM

. . . cryrogenically frozen head.

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Posted by: steve benson ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 04:42AM

The Day I Received a Phone Call from Senator Orrin Hatch Asking Me to Help Him Protect Paul H. Dunn from Media Investigation

I was going through some old files several years ago and came across some recollections I had written down about a phone call I received some years ago from Senator Orrin Hatch, asking me to help him protect Paul H. Dunn from media scrutiny.

The account of the Hatch call was originally intended as part of a presentation I gave at a Sunstone symposium shortly after leaving the Mormon Church, but because of time constraints, it was left unmentioned.

Below is the account from the prepared text:

"One day [Senator Orrin Hatch] called me asking a favor. He had heard that my colleagues at the Arizona Republic were investigating allegations that Elder Paul H. Dunn had manufactured claims about his war and baseball careers. He asked me to prevail on my reporter friends to kill the investigation.

"The senator was making the request, he said, because Paul Dunn was 'a good friend' whom he wished to protect from Lynn Packer, a Mormon journalist who had made the charges, [and] whom Hatch accused of having 'an axe to grind against the Church.'

"I felt very uncomfortable and asked Senator Hatch if he had looked into the allegations against Elder Dunn to see if they were true. He admitted he had not. I told him I could not, in good conscience, interfere with the developing story. The phone conversation quickly ended, with Senator Hatch saying he might get back to me. He never did. The story, of course, later ran and Elder Dunn confessed he had, indeed, exaggerated his exploits."
_____


More, based on the same story, with added connecting points:

The Mormon Church leadership must have known about Dunn's dubious stories long before he was finally exposed as a consummate fraud.

At BYU, I had a political science professor named Ray Hillam who had edited a book, entitled, "A Time to Kill," featuring wartime episodes from the lives of Mormon soldiers in combat.

It was compiled and published before Dunn was undone. I asked Hillam why, during the preparation of the book, he did not include any of Dunn's fantastic war tales.

Hillam told me that he had done some investigating into Dunn's claims, including speaking with sources inside the Church (whom he did not name), and the consensus was that the exploits were so fantastic that their credibility was highly questionable. Rather than pursue the matter further at that time, Hillam told me he just decided to drop any idea of publishing Dunn's amazing action-packed accounts.

For what it's worth, it seems highly unlikely to me that skeptical opinion of Dunn's tales had not been voiced within earshot of His Fakiness's superiors. Put more precisely, the GAs had to have known that Dunn's tales were suspicious, at best, and lies, at worst.Yet, they did nothing until the media blew the whistle on him--then quietly retired him without firing a shot.
_____


Here is what "Sunstone" magazine reported on Packer's findings, as they eventually appeared in the "Arizona Republic":

"On 16 February 1991, 'The Arizona Republic' reported that many of Elder Paul H. Dunn’s baseball and war stories had serious factual problems. The highlights of the report were that Harold Brown did not die in Dunn’s arms as Dunn had repeatedly told audiences, but is still living in Odessa, Missouri; and that Dunn never played for the St. Louis Cardinals.

"The story was printed in newspapers across the nation and was widely discussed by the Utah Saints. Some were angry at Elder Dunn; others defended him. Interestingly, some of the strongest hostility was directed toward Lynn Packer, the reporter who uncovered the story and sold his research to the 'Republic' and to a Salt Lake television station.

"There was also a lot of finger pointing among the press as to why the Utah media sat on the story and waited for the 'Republic' to break it.

"In a statement issued at the time of the 'Republic story,' the LDS church stated that it could not confirm the allegations in the 'Republic.' It did affirm that Dunn was made an emeritus general authority for health reasons. Reporters contacted Dunn, who expressed sorrow over the pain the revelations had caused the Church and said his stories were created simply to illustrate moral points, as did Jesus’ parables. . . .

"As expected, the Mormon folk culture immediately began assuaging the tension of the event through humor. Perhaps the most common joke was about document forger Mark Hofmann making Paul Dunn Cardinals baseball cards. Other jokes placed Dunn in unlikely settings, such as catching BYU Heisman quarterback Ty Detmer’s first touch-down pass. Several individuals submitted unsolicited cartoons to 'Sunstone.' 'Sunstone' believes that this event should be confronted so as not to be forgotten and perhaps repeated. The articles we have gathered concerning the Paul Dunn episode are grouped into three general sections: (1) reprints of news accounts which reported the event, including the original 'Arizona Republic' story; (2) an edited version of the original Lynn Packer story, which he wrote for the 1989 Salt Lake 'Sunstone' symposium but did not give because 'Sunstone' felt the story needed to be put into a broader context; and (3) essays responding to the episode.

"Examples of the community effort to deal with the event through humor are interspersed throughout the articles. Although this episode is a painful one, we believe that a sympathetic yet thorough inquiry into the matter is salutory, helping us to become a stronger and more honest community."

(To read all the above-mentioned examinations, see the lead article, "The Paul Dunn Stories," by "Sunstone's" editors, September 1991, p. 28, followed by the afore-noted reprinted investigative findings, at: https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/083-28-34.pdf)



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2014 04:59AM by steve benson.

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Posted by: randyj ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 12:32PM

...on the charges of publicly criticizing the GA Paul Dunn. As Dallin Oaks said, you're not supposed to criticize church leaders even if the criticism is true. However, that statement is really supposed to apply to criticism of a GA's actions in relation to his church position---not to things like embellishing your personal accomplishments for the purpose of selling lots of books and tapes. But Packer was exed anyway, to "save" Dunn's and the church's "reputation."

Now, contrast that incident to the current case of Tom Phillips, a high-ranking church member who has legally charged the president of the church with fraud---but Phillips has not been exed. That fact hints that the GAs take Phillips' "second anointing" status seriously.

Phillips' criticism of church leaders is to my recollection, the most high-profile case since that guy (was it Byron Marchant?) who stood up in general conference in the mid-'70s to cast his vote against sustaining the prophet. And as I recall, he was exed too.

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Posted by: heretic ( )
Date: March 17, 2014 01:07PM

It's been thirty to forty years since I remember listening to Dunn's story
concerning his meeting with Ted Williams, so memory may fail me slightly.

As I recall Dunn related how Ted Williams had always been a hero to him,
how he had always wanted to meet him. Dunn got his chance when he attended a banquet,
speech or maybe he just happened to be present when Williams was speaking to others.
According to Dunn, Williams spewed about every four letter word known to mankind
(Williams was well known to be quite foul mouthed so I find it hard believe Dunn was unaware of this fact).
Afterwards, Dunn marched up to Williams and indignantly pronounced something to the effect,
"Mr. Williams, before today you were my biggest hero,
but after hearing how foul mouthed an individual you are, you're no longer my hero.
In fact, I have no respect for you whatsoever."

I find it ironic that Dunn went out of his way to announce his loss of respect for Williams,
that the same fate befell Dunn as perhaps millions of Mormons
lost their respect for Dunn because of his dishonesty.

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Posted by: Annie K ( )
Date: August 07, 2021 10:14AM

I wrote an email to Lynn Packer. I told him I was surprised that he was excommunicated because he wrote the book. He responded:

“That would have surprised me as well. I was never excommunicated. Or disfellowshipped. No complaint was ever made to my bishop or stake president.
That was a rumor started by Paul Dunn and his family.
I explain how the story came about in my book. I did much of the research while teaching at BYU. Both administrators up my faculty chain of command knew about the research and encouraged it. Journalism, after all, is about fact-finding and truth-seeking. It was only when Dunn went to his close friend, Jay Ballif, who was a vice president, that BYU decided to not renew my contract.
Once it became a controversy at BYU’s administrative level they insisted I brief the brethren before I published. Which I did, meeting directly with two apostles assigned to the Dunn matter, Elders James Faust and David Haight. They assigned an attorney to check my facts, asked me to provide him material, which I did. His investigation confirmed that Dunn lied about his World War II record and non- existent major league baseball career. The attorney’s report to church leadership directly and quickly resulted in Dunn getting emeritus status years earlier than usual practice.
The meetings I had with Elders Faust and Haight before and after Dunn’s emeritus status were civil and rancor-free. They never defended Dunn or his lying in speeches and books. They never accused me of betraying the church and never threatened my membership. They knew going in Dunn had credibility problems. They just did not know to what extent. They were trying to balance an appropriate “punishment”.”

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Posted by: Reinventinggrace not logged in ( )
Date: August 07, 2021 10:56AM

Zombie thread alert!

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Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: August 07, 2021 01:28PM

Yes, it's a zombie thread, but a very intriguing one. Maybe the younger generation of Mormons and exmos haven't heard about Dunn's lies. The Mormon church tends to sweep stories like this one under the rug till it's forgotten. Later they'll deny it ever happened.

Paul H. Dunn, I think, was just about every Mormon's favorite speaker in general conference. He always had a good story to tell.

It came as a great shock to me that his stories were all fabrications. I had several of his books.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: August 07, 2021 01:09PM

How are the Paul "Done" stories diferent in purpose from the Joe. Jr. stories
The fabrication and lies are of the same genre

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Posted by: Jaxson ( )
Date: August 07, 2021 01:10PM

One of the stories I heard goes something along the lines of Dunn hanging around the Cardinals spring training complex, looking for an opportunity, perhaps even serving as a batting practice pitcher. I never hear the Ted Williams tale, but I had heard something about him hanging out with Stan Musial. If this is true, it would go towards explaining his stories of playing with the Cardinals.

There is a Paul Dunn listed on the minor league 1947 Ontario (CA) Orioles of the Class C Sunset League -

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=dunn--001pau

I don't believe the team was affiliated with any major league team. There are no stats listed for him, so whatever role he played on the team, he never appeared in a game. He might have been the batting practice pitcher. It would not surprise me if this was the actual Paul H. Dunn.

I remember as a teenager driving to Long Beach to hear Dunn speak. He was great. His stories were amazing. Many people were left in tears from being "touched by the spirit". Later I remember thinking, "Shouldn't the "still small voice" have been whispering that Dunn was lying out of his ass??" Turned it off...like a light switch.

I still have a copy of the Sunstone Magazine (Sept. 1991) where Lynn Packer exposed Dunn. I'll have to read it again because I think there is a lot of apologetic bullshit from church spokespersons trying to cover Dunn's ass. If I recall, one of them compared Dunn's stories to Christ's parables in the Bible. LOL!! My ex used to have a bunch of Dunn's books on cassette tapes. Damn I wish I had those.

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Posted by: OneWayJay ( )
Date: August 07, 2021 04:58PM

Was a missionary during the Dunn Story popularity. Got a new Mission President and he told us some of his baseball career - made it to AAA ball and a week in the Big Show.

He was apologetic talking about it - referring to Paul Dunn's career & the great fame he had from it with the church and Dunn's calling at Liason to Pro Sports as a result.

The Mission Prez was anything but a dynamic speaker - Way different from Dunn.

As a result a lot of missionaries made fun of him - Paul Dunn Wannabee and such.

Later after the truth of Dunns lying came out I wrote a letter apologizing to the old MP for me not taking him seriously - and paying more attention to a lying Attention Whore - and I used those words.

Our MP deserved a lot better - but in comparison to a smooth con man most never measure up - not even after the truth comes out.

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