Many on a journey to RFM

Over the last decade, there's been a small group of Latter-day Saints carving out space for themselves in the Mormon community. They are often called "New Order Mormons." They don't believe everything the Church teaches, but they stay because they love the culture and are spiritually nourished by their involvement. Wednesday, Doug sits down with John Dehlin, co-founder of StayLDS.com. They'll talk about this progressive strain of Mormonism and what it means for a church so defined by orthodoxy.

Listen Live http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/new-order-mormons

Program is at 11 AM and repeats at 7 PM and available on podcast.

I'm pretty sick of Radio West always having the same guests as "experts" on Mormonism and so-called fringe-mormonism.
Would it be so bad to have an expert of the church that doesn't agree with the church?

I agree. Why must we always defer in the media as the "bretheren". People have left over some really clear reasons, not a muddled pile of "personal preferences".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2014 01:42PM by erictheex.

Mormons run Utah. KUER is in Utah.

Radio in Utah tends to be either very pro-Mormon or very liberal/non-Mormon. The liberal/non-Mormon radio stations barely beat out the pro-Mormon stations, but non-Mormon radio is the clear winner at this point.

This is important to know because it is pretty easy to tell which radio stations tend to be geared towards a Mormon demographic and which aren't. KUER is very obviously geared towards a more liberal, non-Mormon population. Since Radio West is a national show, they are also very obviously geared toward a non-Mormon population as well.

Sorry man, but your argument about KUER being controlled by the Mormons just doesn't fit well into reality.

John Dehlin: I'm not sure if there is a God or an afterlife, but I choose to live as a believer at this point.

Whaaaa??? Ok, so he believes, he just does not KNOW. At least he admits it.

I didn't know about the site that supports people staying LDS. Mentioned in the above link. NOMs.

This is a recent thread started. OP pissed me off. What do you think of his take on tribal Mormonism in lieu of doctrine, teaching, and values.

"This points to the fact that my membership and continued affiliation with the church is 100% about my family, friends, and social connections and very little to do with the doctrine. The church is my tribe. I try to be a Mormon because I don't want to get kicked out of my tribe. This is a pre-cognitive thought or emotion bred into us by evolution. Getting kicked out of the tribe is end of the line for me and my genetics. We can't help but be extremely anxious about doing things that would cause us to loose our status or position in our tribe. This is why most ex-mos never fit in well to begin with and thus may find it easier to leave, and I would wager that most of those on this forum who are struggling to stay in, including me, fit into the Mormon tribe well."


Social Mormons. I want to get in his face and makes sure I fit in great. Leading, gorgeous LDS girlfriends, and nothing, but praise and glory. Problem was it wasn't adding up and I have some curiosity and the ability to sort things through independently.

There are former Mormons that couldn't cut it socially (too weird, too weak, too big) as a Mormon, so they are out. There are also former Mormons that figured out that it is a cult fraud and didn't want their tribe to be a cult fraud so they left Mormonism. They are now working, very hard to create a new tribe lineage for themselves and their DNA.

Yea, former Mormons are y definition, no longer in the Mormon tribe. You can have your dung heap for yourselves. I am a butterfly and prefer the sky as my limit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2014 01:50PM by gentlestrength.

This is nothing new, in my view. It's just vocal. That part is new.

I have observed, over many decades in the LDS Church that there are about as many different kinds of Mormonism as there are members.

There are dozens of different approaches, each taking a slightly different slant, while parroting the "party line".
What we hear in the "party line" is the surface. Underneath is a large expanse of differing ideas that get them to that "party line."

Such things as "I know the church is true," for instance, doesn't include the underlying ideas that comprise that statement, which, are rarely expressed, however, are there just the same.

We are in a "New Era," so to speak, and members are speaking up without so much fear of being ostracized like the past.

There are factions that are brave enough to show their hand.

They were there all along but not secure enough, (lacking support) to voice their concerns.

The idea that the LDS Church believes in "Modern Day Revelation" is echoing the current culture of today in asking for those changes while banding together.

How about joining the exmo tribe? It's larger than the mormon tribe and it's growing every day. Many of the best and brightest from the mormon tribe have joined the exmo tribe. It's getting to the point where the mormon tribe will ONLY retain the socially awkward, the deluded, the illiterate, etc...

If that doesn't work for you, how about joining the MUCH larger "tribe" of normal humans that live all around you? We're not hunter/gatherers that have to deal with competing tribes. We have like-minded neighbors, coworkers, etc...

He states the exmo tribe is for those who can't cut it at Mormonism.

I would add. Can't fit into the Moron tribe, a cult fraud of dumbasses. Yeah, didn't fit into that tribe. Moved along.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2014 02:23PM by gentlestrength.

Is is true that Doug Fabrizio is an active Mormon?

He keeps his personal life pretty close to his chest as far as I can tell, but I've been listening to him for years and I really don't think he is.

Dehlin pretty much admitted that the NOM state is generally just a pit stop to complete apostacy.
I highly doubt Fabrizio is LDS.

I am a NOM. I think many people misunderstand what a NOM is. NOMs do include those who don't believe, but stay active because they like it.

But most like me are active because we are scared of having our spouses leave us and being ostracized by our families.

We believe in proceeding slowly and being careful to not create any problems in our relationships.

Some of us are out to our families and some are not. I am not at this point. It is not a great position to be in. I feel that if I am truthful to my wife she would probably kick me out and cause a lot of pain to me and my kids.

I'm really sorry that you are in the position you are in. There are a few like you on this board whom you could comiserate with :)

When i think of NOM's I think more of people like Joanna Brooks (who is married to a Jew) who somehow became an unofficial voice of Mormons, and is constantly applying lipstick to the pig. I'm sorry for people trapped in marriages alone in their disbelief, but I think of them as "disbelievers who can't tell their spouse", not NOM's. I have been to the NOM site, there is definitely more going on than just marital problems



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2014 04:42PM by ladell.

It's more like MINO (Mormon In Name Only) than NOM.

>>...but they stay because they love the culture and are spiritually nourished by their involvement.<<

Or because they still hope the pretty promises of Mormonism are real and don't want to totally blow their chance at grabbing the big carrot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2014 02:40PM by Stray Mutt.

Ding, ding, ding.....winner, winner, chicken dinner.

It seems like you want to paint NOMs in a terrible light. I think you are being harsh and unrealistic about the realities a lot of people have to go through.

This is what icantbelieve's said above:

"I am a NOM. I think many people misunderstand what a NOM is. NOMs do include those who don't believe, but stay active because they like it.

But most like me are active because we are scared of having our spouses leave us and being ostracized by our families."

It sounds like a really tough place to be in. This opinion right here is more indicative of everything I read here about people who identify as NOM as well as what I read in other places that cannot be mentioned. That someone might be doing this to themselves because you think they are deluded is ridiculous. These people deserve our support and our sympathy, not your contempt.

was interesting.

I haven't heard a lot of what John Dehlin has had to say in the past, but it sounds to me like he's not going to last much longer on the inside.

He said he's at a pretty painful stage right now. I don't follow him on facebook or anything, so I don't know what the deal is with that. He said he no longer feels good about holding a temple recommend, whatever that means.

One of the best comments I heard was from a lapsed cafeteria Catholic, who said that he just doesn't get what the problem is with Mormons. He doesn't catch any flak for not participating in his church. Nobody cares. The Flak Mormons get make him wonder what's wrong with the church.